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IndustryArena Forum > MetalWorking Machines > Benchtop Machines > Speeds, Feeds, and Strategies for Bench Top Mills
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  1. #181
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Posts
    34

    Re: Speeds, Feeds, and Strategies for Bench Top Mills

    My experience with them is they work great when new. They don't age very well.
    But I'm in the camp of there is Kurt, and then there is everything else.
    http://www.heavymetalcnc.com

  2. #182

    Re: Speeds, Feeds, and Strategies for Bench Top Mills

    It's odd that HeavyMetal is shown as the last poster on this thread, and I even got a notification about it, but the post doesn't appear.

    What issues did you have with the Shars vises? My oldest one is four or five years old, it still works like the day I got it. I did have to adjust the preload on one as the set screw on the nut was loose from the factory. It took about 1 minute to fix that up.

    Edit: me posting fixed it. There were only 9 pages when I posted, but it rolled over and created the 10th once I posted. I checked on three browser.,s

  3. #183

    Re: Speeds, Feeds, and Strategies for Bench Top Mills

    I have a few small projects to machine that I am going to do with steppers, but once complete I will transition to the ClearPath servos. I am now looking at the 4 axis power hub in addition to the IPC 5 and three servos. I like that the servos will auto correct using their encoder position after an e-stop. That means should I get a chip or some other interference on the limit switches I wouldn't have to rely on homing again to regain position. My current homing situation is quite reliable I have found, but I would think this would be a fundamental improvement. It also makes supplying power to the three servos a spot easier as I can use distinct cables without daisy chaining. The device is $50 plus shipping. I'd also have to buy more cables. I am on the fence about it.

  4. #184
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    56

    Re: Speeds, Feeds, and Strategies for Bench Top Mills

    Quote Originally Posted by CL_MotoTech View Post
    I have a few small projects to machine that I am going to do with steppers, but once complete I will transition to the ClearPath servos. I am now looking at the 4 axis power hub in addition to the IPC 5 and three servos. I like that the servos will auto correct using their encoder position after an e-stop. That means should I get a chip or some other interference on the limit switches I wouldn't have to rely on homing again to regain position. My current homing situation is quite reliable I have found, but I would think this would be a fundamental improvement. It also makes supplying power to the three servos a spot easier as I can use distinct cables without daisy chaining. The device is $50 plus shipping. I'd also have to buy more cables. I am on the fence about it.
    I just picked up a used PM-25MV with clearpath servos on it. I haven't cut anything with it yet as the Z axis has some issues I need to sort out...but they sure can move. I got up to 400 IPM on the X axis but think the cheap power supply in the cabinet isn't quite up to the task of much more. Moving the Z axis at anything over 100 IPM and I can hear the fan on the PSU almost come to a stop from the power draw. Will the IPC 5 run 2 of the nema 23 492 oz/in and a 34 638 oz/in? If so, I might end up getting one too.

  5. #185
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Posts
    1516

    Re: Speeds, Feeds, and Strategies for Bench Top Mills

    Quote Originally Posted by cwatson1982 View Post
    I just picked up a used PM-25MV with clearpath servos on it. I haven't cut anything with it yet as the Z axis has some issues I need to sort out...but they sure can move. I got up to 400 IPM on the X axis but think the cheap power supply in the cabinet isn't quite up to the task of much more. Moving the Z axis at anything over 100 IPM and I can hear the fan on the PSU almost come to a stop from the power draw. Will the IPC 5 run 2 of the nema 23 492 oz/in and a 34 638 oz/in? If so, I might end up getting one too.
    You mean this thing?:
    https://www.teknic.com/IPC-5/
    500w probarbly will manage it.
    That is stupid money though for a poxy psu afaic.

    What's wrong with aswitched supply? It is only a PM25 afterall. I just had a 500w 0-80v adjustable one from aliexpress delivered this week for £43gbp.
    Also got a 720w 60v for £49gpb on the way.
    https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3281...5c084c4dtHYTRF
    https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000...5c084c4dtHYTRF

    Bought the both of them to future proof (ish) my new control box. I dream for at least 5 axis + tool changer, closed loop. These should hopefully cover all of that.
    Not worth forking for servos.

  6. #186
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    56
    Quote Originally Posted by dazp1976 View Post
    You mean this thing?:
    https://www.teknic.com/IPC-5/
    500w probarbly will manage it.
    That is stupid money though for a poxy psu afaic.

    What's wrong with aswitched supply? It is only a PM25 afterall. I just had a 500w 0-80v adjustable one from aliexpress delivered this week for £43gbp.
    Also got a 720w 60v for £49gpb on the way.
    https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3281...5c084c4dtHYTRF
    https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000...5c084c4dtHYTRF

    Bought the both of them to future proof (ish) my new control box. I dream for at least 5 axis + tool changer, closed loop. These should hopefully cover all of that.
    Not worth forking for servos.
    For me it's just an issue of reliability. I bought the machine to run prototype stuff and offload small stuff from my primary machine (big 40x20 bed mill I retrofitted with kflop/kanalog). Unfortunately I don't have space for another industrial machine and would rather not have a psu flake out at a bad time

  7. #187
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Posts
    1516

    Re: Speeds, Feeds, and Strategies for Bench Top Mills

    Quote Originally Posted by cwatson1982 View Post
    For me it's just an issue of reliability. I bought the machine to run prototype stuff and offload small stuff from my primary machine (big 40x20 bed mill I retrofitted with kflop/kanalog). Unfortunately I don't have space for another industrial machine and would rather not have a psu flake out at a bad time
    Fair enough. I've never had any trouble but I get them way too big so they're only running about 50%. That's prob why
    That 500w I got is only for 1 nema 34 1080oz & the 720w is for 2* nema24's @ 566oz!! lol!!

    The ones I have atm are 350w 60v. There is 1 on each axis, lol!. Been like that for near 3 years.





    Anyway. Back to feeds, speeds, chatter and.... oooops!

  8. #188

    Re: Speeds, Feeds, and Strategies for Bench Top Mills

    There are numerous reasons not to run the servos off my 48V switching supply, or any random switching supply for that matter.

  9. #189

    Re: Speeds, Feeds, and Strategies for Bench Top Mills

    Quote Originally Posted by cwatson1982 View Post
    I just picked up a used PM-25MV with clearpath servos on it. I haven't cut anything with it yet as the Z axis has some issues I need to sort out...but they sure can move. I got up to 400 IPM on the X axis but think the cheap power supply in the cabinet isn't quite up to the task of much more. Moving the Z axis at anything over 100 IPM and I can hear the fan on the PSU almost come to a stop from the power draw. Will the IPC 5 run 2 of the nema 23 492 oz/in and a 34 638 oz/in? If so, I might end up getting one too.
    The IPC5 is 500W continuous, 1250W peak. A fan is required for this. Maybe Matt can step in and provide more info (Teknic doesn't seem to supply info for their servos as far as amperage that I can find), but by my own smooth brained analysis the IPC5 should actually have more peak power than my current 48v 10A switching supply, and I run all three axis plus a fourth for the ATC off it.

  10. #190

    Re: Speeds, Feeds, and Strategies for Bench Top Mills

    I have three clearpath servos with one IPC5, It only has two power ports, but splice two servos into one, no problem...

  11. #191

    Re: Speeds, Feeds, and Strategies for Bench Top Mills

    Fingers crossed the IPC5 will do it. I ended up buying the power hub and cables from Teknic. By the time I got the wire, plugs, contacts, crimper, contact tool, and spent 20 minutes building a cable, buying cables was way cheaper. They are molded also, and with coolant, I think that's a good thing.

    I need to finish up these last machining projects and then I will move onto fitting the servos. Un/fortunately orders keep rolling in. Good for paying for all these cables and parts, bad for taking the machine offline.

  12. #192
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Posts
    79

    Re: Speeds, Feeds, and Strategies for Bench Top Mills

    My mill came with an IPC-5 and runs 2 of these for XY and one of these for Z. As far as I know it's been working properly so far. I don't think I've had any issues that weren't caused by user error lol. Just finally got all mine rewired and re-autotuned the other day.

  13. #193
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Posts
    38

    Re: Speeds, Feeds, and Strategies for Bench Top Mills

    CL_MotoTech, you're still running the original spindle setup, right? I see you've replaced bearings, and upgraded the motor for higher RPM, but same cast iron spindle?

    My 3KW spindle I posted pages back, it's making bad noises when trying to make heavy cuts in 4140. Motor has the power, but it seems the bearings in it are not up to the task. So wondering what I can do to get my PM25 better setup for roughing 4140.

    I was thinking, maybe redo the original spindle with new, better bearings? How do you set preload? If I did that, then perhaps I could use my 3KW motor and a pulley to belt drive that spindle.

  14. #194
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Posts
    38

    Re: Speeds, Feeds, and Strategies for Bench Top Mills

    Well, I ended up tearing down my 12K RPM 3KW spindle. The dang thing has SPRINGS in it to take up slack and apply a small amount of preload on the bearings. And this is certainly why under heavy cuts, the bearings go crazy and it snaps cutters.

    So I'm done using that as a spindle.

    Got the original PM25 spindle apart. New NSK bearings are ordered. The spline thing, the splines are worn pretty bad. I ordered a new R8 reciever/spline assembly.

    I'm also making a 3D printed plastic piece to go on the spline to apply friction to it to get rid of all the slack and clunking of the spine in the future.

    The slack I think has been causing edge and corner damage to end mills during interupted cuts. The spline spacer thing is expected to fix this!

    Will post pictures as it comes together. But really optimistic that once it's back together, I'll be able to make better cuts in 4140.

  15. #195

    Re: Speeds, Feeds, and Strategies for Bench Top Mills

    Sorry I never responded to you. Summer has been busy!

    I think you are best off to stick with the PM25 spindle. My setup doesn't use the splines for drive, as the pulley just mounts directly to those splines. I got rid of the entire quill and quill shell. Ultimately, this quieted my spindle down a lot. I actually couldn't keep drill bits in my drill chuck because of the slop in that spline setup, it would cause the chuck to loosen. I rarely use a drill chuck these days, but the quill-less setup is the way to go if you can.

  16. #196
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Posts
    38

    Re: Speeds, Feeds, and Strategies for Bench Top Mills

    Any pictures detailing this? I assume you had to do some type of bearing for the pulley at a minimum.

  17. #197

    Re: Speeds, Feeds, and Strategies for Bench Top Mills

    I don't know how it works on the PM25, but with the G0704 and all the gears and what not, the easiest solution was to just put a pulley on the spindle. No third bearing was added, results were great. It ran with just the two tapered bearings.

    A year or so ago when I added the ATC and power drawbar I added a bearing above the pulley. To do that I turned the threaded section down on the spindle to fit a 17mm ID bearing. This was needed because the belleville stack is rather heavy, but also it's very far from the two spindle bearings. Mostly so far so good there.

  18. #198
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Posts
    38

    Re: Speeds, Feeds, and Strategies for Bench Top Mills

    Quote Originally Posted by CL_MotoTech View Post
    I don't know how it works on the PM25, but with the G0704 and all the gears and what not, the easiest solution was to just put a pulley on the spindle. No third bearing was added, results were great. It ran with just the two tapered bearings.

    A year or so ago when I added the ATC and power drawbar I added a bearing above the pulley. To do that I turned the threaded section down on the spindle to fit a 17mm ID bearing. This was needed because the belleville stack is rather heavy, but also it's very far from the two spindle bearings. Mostly so far so good there.
    So on the PM 25, if I put the pulley as you describe, it would be about 4 or 5 inches above the upper tapered roller bearing.

    Is that how it turned out on your machine?

  19. #199

    Re: Speeds, Feeds, and Strategies for Bench Top Mills

    Yep, that's it. Keep in mind I ran the spindle at 8k with this configuration. It was quiet as an be.

  20. #200
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Posts
    38

    Re: Speeds, Feeds, and Strategies for Bench Top Mills

    Quote Originally Posted by CL_MotoTech View Post
    Yep, that's it. Keep in mind I ran the spindle at 8k with this configuration. It was quiet as an be.
    Good to know!

    Another question. How did you attach the pulley? Did you buy a pulley, or machine an adapter? Any pics?

    Thinking of replicating what you did, it sounds like a great solution.

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