[shonir]

Hi,

sorry about the late response, i was busy with to many things (Work, Covid issues and so on). No, my Gantry never had out of square issues. i decided to not use the RichAuto because i am more familiar with the Mach3, so i asked them to change it to Mach3 controller. at start I thought to replace it once it will arrive, but Lanny convinced me to see how the Mach3 controller performs and then to decide. so far, i can't complain- it does with it should do.
have you consider to go the K60? it sounds that yo have many demands from the CNC (both accuracy and power), maybe it worth pay some extra money and get stiffer machine and maybe even use servos instead of steppers? are you sure the 2.2kW is enough to your needs?
please verify that the SHIMPO reducer are suitable for stepper motors, I think they more fit with servos.

I didn't understand how you want to install the 2nd gantry for the laser engraver. the t-slots on the sides are not that accurate, i have 0 experience with laser engraver heads but have you thought putting the laser head with the spindle? (again, don't have any experience with it. there is also fumes issues with the laser you need to take in your considerations.)

i suggest you to consult with QuickCNC about your setup. maybe they have better knowledge.

Thanks,
Nir

[LangleyWoodworker]

I don't need the T slot to be perfect as I'll have a way to adjust the Y rails to be parallel. Plus I'll probably use plastic supports so they'll have just enough give for that.
I'll be sure to upload photos once I have it, but probably not until later this year. I'm not even sure if I want to do diode laser or CO2.

I could attach the laser module to the main spindle, but that would complicate the wiring (I'd need a different controller), and I would be wearing out the components prematurely by going back and forth... Not to mention it would be much slower to accelerate the weight of the entire gantry.

I don't really have the space or budget for the much bigger machines... And I'm fairly certain this one will be fine. Afterall, I get <0.1mm precision with my current machine, and that's just Al extrusions and Al plates.

There weren't any issues ordering the reducers, but now I'm being told the machine will be 20cm wider than quoted (which is a big deal for me). And when I suggested right angle reducers (to point the motors up, instead of to the side), I was told those are only for servos.... So go figure


Do you mind to measure your machine at the widest points? It's 1300x1300 work area as well, right?
They quoted 1980mm wide, so want to see what yours is with the same Leadshine closed loop steppers....

[shonir]

The width of the 1218 CNC I have is 2m (+/-1cm or 2000mm+/-10mm) at the widest point (the 'ears' of the steppers).
I don't think it would be changed with open looped steppers.

[LangleyWoodworker]

The width of the 1218 CNC I have is 2m (+/-1cm or 2000mm+/-10mm) at the widest point (the 'ears' of the steppers).
I don't think it would be changed with open looped steppers.

Thanks for measuring.

Have been trying to sort it out with them, but unfortunately it seems like I'm the only one coming up with suggestions how to fix it (such as using a right angle gear reducer). They can't even seem to measure correctly, counting the shaft as part of the length.

The open loop steppers is 45mm shorter than closed loop, plus the belt is 13mm shorter than the gear reducer, so overall there's a 58mm difference (116mm for both sides). Which adds up to the extra width.... Using a right angle gear reducer would take that down to 158mm, which is 33mm shorter than even the open loop steppers and belt reducer.

Anyway, if this keeps going I'll just go with another company as it's ridiculous... Which would be a shame as I like the 1313 table size as well as the overall looks of the machine.

[shonir]

Hi,

I understand the frustration.
This is regular when dealing with sells person who doesn't have the technical skills and probably she doesn't know what to ask the engineer.
Of course open loop steppers are shorter than the closed loop ones. The cover is for both of them (commonality to reduce costs) so going back to open lopped steppers won't solve the problem. I wouldn't go to steppers with gear reduction (not going to deep dive explanation, but the torque curves of them are totally different). Another option is NOT worth to consider is to choose smaller bed in x axis. Remember that every unique request you made, they have difficulties to do it (various reasons for that).
Try to upgrade to servos and ask to see real measurements photos to see if it reduce the machine width. If you need help with it I can send you example.
Nir

[LangleyWoodworker]

Hi,

I understand the frustration.
This is regular when dealing with sells person who doesn't have the technical skills and probably she doesn't know what to ask the engineer.
Of course open loop steppers are shorter than the closed loop ones. The cover is for both of them (commonality to reduce costs) so going back to open lopped steppers won't solve the problem. I wouldn't go to steppers with gear reduction (not going to deep dive explanation, but the torque curves of them are totally different). Another option is NOT worth to consider is to choose smaller bed in x axis. Remember that every unique request you made, they have difficulties to do it (various reasons for that).
Try to upgrade to servos and ask to see real measurements photos to see if it reduce the machine width. If you need help with it I can send you example.
Nir

Fair point about reducing X length. I wasn't really going to let that happen as I can only imagine the complexity in that.

Yeah I was thinking to tell them to do servos in order to reduce length. Mind you the 850W Innovance servos they're recommending are 150mm long, so not much shorter.

Interesting point about the covers being the same - that was my assumption too, so I didn't even think twice that getting the closed loop motors would change that at all. But I guess they have enough people ordering the different configurations to justify the two cover sizes.
Could even be Laguna that realised these machines are going in small spaces and thus insisted on smallest possible cover with the steppers. Laguna's machines actually measure 78" (1981.2mm), and they seem to use open loop steppers, so it would totally make sense.

I understand the difference in the torque curves - LS Hybrids start at 8Nm and drop down to about 2Nm by 3k RPM, while servos have about 2.3Nm flat to about 6k RPM with short peaks to 8Nm. I just figured that the proper reduction ratio would be sufficient to overcome that, no?
Appreciate a bit of schooling if I'm mistaken ????

[LangleyWoodworker]

Ok so back to belt reducer and Leadshine hybrid stepper and they're adjusting the covers to make it 2m wide. A little more backlash than I wanted, but I think it should be sufficient for me.

So I guess we'll see how it ends up in a couple months

[shonir]

Glad to hear!
it would be nice of you to write a summary post (good or bad) once you get the CNC to help other people get smarter decision

I wish you all the best with it.

Nir

[shonir]

Fair point about reducing X length. I wasn't really going to let that happen as I can only imagine the complexity in that.

Yeah I was thinking to tell them to do servos in order to reduce length. Mind you the 850W Innovance servos they're recommending are 150mm long, so not much shorter.

Interesting point about the covers being the same - that was my assumption too, so I didn't even think twice that getting the closed loop motors would change that at all. But I guess they have enough people ordering the different configurations to justify the two cover sizes.
Could even be Laguna that realised these machines are going in small spaces and thus insisted on smallest possible cover with the steppers. Laguna's machines actually measure 78" (1981.2mm), and they seem to use open loop steppers, so it would totally make sense.

I understand the difference in the torque curves - LS Hybrids start at 8Nm and drop down to about 2Nm by 3k RPM, while servos have about 2.3Nm flat to about 6k RPM with short peaks to 8Nm. I just figured that the proper reduction ratio would be sufficient to overcome that, no?
Appreciate a bit of schooling if I'm mistaken ????

Sorry, I missed that post. although it is not relevant, I look at it as follows- if you have a reducer of 1:10 it means that to maintain the same acceleration and speed you need to run the steppers 10 times than without reducer. this will be an issue with larger diameter bits (0.25", for sure 0.5") where you will probably would like to run at higher feed rates. this means there is huge risk to get into the realm where you don't have enough juice in your steppers. it can be easily calculated if needed (you need the torque curves and the setup parameters that I can give you from my mach3 controller).

[LangleyWoodworker]

Sorry, I missed that post. although it is not relevant, I look at it as follows- if you have a reducer of 1:10 it means that to maintain the same acceleration and speed you need to run the steppers 10 times than without reducer. this will be an issue with larger diameter bits (0.25", for sure 0.5") where you will probably would like to run at higher feed rates. this means there is huge risk to get into the realm where you don't have enough juice in your steppers. it can be easily calculated if needed (you need the torque curves and the setup parameters that I can give you from my mach3 controller).

Would be great if you can calculate... I believe the belt reducers are 5:1... Would be good to know fastest they can cut when pushed hard with a 1/2" bit and 3/4" DOC....

What's the fastest you've pushed yours?


Oh and I'll be doing a write up on it for sure. Will be a few months until I have the machine, but I'm already thinking what to talk about out in the write up

[dazp1976]

Would be great if you can calculate... I believe the belt reducers are 5:1... Would be good to know fastest they can cut when pushed hard with a 1/2" bit and 3/4" DOC....
What's the fastest you've pushed yours?
Oh and I'll be doing a write up on it for sure. Will be a few months until I have the machine, but I'm already thinking what to talk about out in the write up

Steppers have a max rpm of 1000rpm (unreliably).
So with the reducers you're looking at 200rpm at the screw (1000/5).
With 5mm screws that's 200rpm*5 which is max of 1000mm/min.
CRAP!!!!.

1. You need to invest in servos of 3000rpm or...
2. You need to drop down to 2:1 reducers to give 2500mm/min or...
3. Use 10mm pitch screws to double the speed again 200rpm*10= 2000mm/min.

I would use BOTH 1 & 2 to give max 7500mm/min.
Even just using servos on 5:1 you are still only looking at max 3000mm/min.

SCRAP 5:1.

[LangleyWoodworker]

Steppers have a max rpm of 1000rpm (unreliably).
So with the reducers you're looking at 200rpm at the screw (1000/5).
With 5mm screws that's 200rpm*5 which is max of 1000mm/min.
CRAP!!!!.

1. You need to invest in servos of 3000rpm or...
2. You need to drop down to 2:1 reducers to give 2500mm/min or...
3. Use 10mm pitch screws to double the speed again 200rpm*10= 2000mm/min.

I would use BOTH 1 & 2 to give max 7500mm/min.
Even just using servos on 5:1 you are still only looking at max 3000mm/min.

SCRAP 5:1.

It's for a rack and pinion machine, not screw. That's why the max RPM is not as important as torque output.

If this was a ballscrew mechanism I would go for 2010/2510 and have an easy max 10m/min rapid travel. (My current machine uses 5mm pitch leadscrews and is limited to a max 5m/min solely due to screw whip, and that's using 3Nm Nema24 hybrid steppers)

From my understanding the machine should be capable of well beyond 10m/min even with the hybrid steppers.

[LangleyWoodworker]

So finally got my QuickCNC
Overall pretty happy.
See more thoughts in this post:

https://www.cnczone.com/forums/chine...ml#post2524876

[aaronkai2345]

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[PuraVidaVenture]

Great thread! I have been looking at the Quick machines on Alibaba and it is nice to see some first hand accounts of people that have been using them. I am just curious where you guys are located? After inquiring about pricing on there machines, I just heard back from Quick today and they referred me to Laguna as their partner who handles their machines in the US. With Laguna's pricing, it defeats the purpose of order a import machine.

[LangleyWoodworker]

Great thread! I have been looking at the Quick machines on Alibaba and it is nice to see some first hand accounts of people that have been using them. I am just curious where you guys are located? After inquiring about pricing on there machines, I just heard back from Quick today and they referred me to Laguna as their partner who handles their machines in the US. With Laguna's pricing, it defeats the purpose of order a import machine.

Laguna does the manual machines for North America. I'm in Canada and ordered their Auto Tool Change machine with vacuum table for not much more money than the standard machine from Laguna. (Plus Laguna's price doesn't include taxes or delivery, so it's actually quite a bit less than Laguna)

Check out AccTek as well. My buddy has their machines and I've used them myself. Very nice machines as well and they can ship manual machines to North America if you need