[Pectel]

Hi
just taken delivery of a abandoned dm4400m with a meldas m3 in a rather poor state,
it needs a new battery off course. battery is on its way.
have done the dipswitch routine and have got the screen up and running but unplugged everything the other day and now screen is not working, guess its because of battery died completly.

Have the Y03 amp. fail i cant get rid off but that will clear i hope when i initialaze mc161-1 card.

cant get the axxes to move with the wheel and the fan is blowing constantly. tool changer moves a bit. will that be better with 161-1 card routine?
the machine have been stored outside and i suspect the buttons on the control panel might be stuck in some position.

any pointers where to start?
really want this up and running. off course its possible to retrofit some other control system if needed

Cheers

[MrMetric]

Pectel,
Welcome to the 4400m club! It is *great* that you rescued old iron from the trash heap. I had a similar case. The machine was basically free for the cost of moving, although I've since spent a good amount of money buying "different things" for it, and have been working to build a significantly larger memory board for it. With that, we will be able to have gobs of memory that allow us to load all the Renishaw macros for both the touch probe and tool presetter all at the same time... and still have room for more programs than you'd ever want to load without the need for DNC. But that is a different story....

So... a few things. First off, I hope you got the retention knobs. Unfortunately, they are Dyna specific, so you cannot use anything else. However, there is at least one vendor that will still make them, but they are not inexpensive. You can use either CAT or BT, but not (presently... another project) at the same time. I tons of documentation for the machine, which includes drawings for the retention knobs. I believe the those can also be found on this site though. You should also join the US MEAU support site and download as much as you can for the control. Don't be shy... The Mitsu controls seem to share lots of themes, so grab things for the 3xx series, and even the 5xx series too. The manuals are not great, but they contain new nuggets of information each time you read them.

The Y03 failure could be related to parameters, but it probably isn't. On the drive itself, you should see the error code and you can tell what the problem is from that (probably 03, but better to confirm). I say that it is probably a real issue because the parameters are actually stored in EEPROM, which means that when you perform the reinitialization steps, it will pull the parameters from the EEPROM. This style of memory does not need battery to survive. However, once you turn off the machine for a period of time, you could possibly. need to reinitialize again. There is a "super cap" that *should* allow you to have SRAM retention for quite some time, but these are old machines.... The cap might not be good anymore so....

You won't be able to move an axis until the errors are cleared. So the Y amp issue is a problem that is the first thing to resolve. You can cycle the tool changer, which is kind of an independent thing in this machine, by pressing one of the buttons on the tool changer board card... This is in the lower middle of the machine and looks nothing like a Mitsubishi board.

I would hold off on retrofit ideas. These machines are pretty capable if you can get more RAM in them.... Better yet, if it is working, don't screw with it! :-)

I'm in Mediterranean for the next three weeks, but am normally in California. Where are you located? I've fixed several amps now, so hold off on worrying about that too much for the time being.

Alan

[MrMetric]

OK, I found the 03 alarm (sorry, I have *incredibly* slow internet right now and, well, I'm on vacation!). This is an utter failure to find, or communicate with, the servo amplifier for the Y axis. There are a few reasons why this my occur, but it is a bit odd for the Y axis. Let me explain....

The 4400m only has two amplifiers. One is an MR-S11 and the other is an MR-S12. If you open the rear of the machine, you should see these to the right of the CPU cage (with the 161 board). The MR-S12 is actually two amplifiers in one unit. Essentially they are just sharing the high voltage DC bus and a few relays in an effort to reduce part counts, etc. I'm not sure how successful this is/was because, it actually has most of the same stuff. Further Mitsubishi seems to have abandoned this practice in later models. Anyhow, the S12 is for both the X and Y axis. Then you have the MR-S11, which is for the Z axis only.

Now, it is a possibility that Mitsubishi doesn't respond well to multiple errors (well, I know it doesn't), so it is possible that Y is showing as an error and it never gets to X. Don't assume X is OK, given that they share the same amp. However, it is also possible that the little rotary switches are wrong. As I recall (can't check right now), the S12 has TWO rotary switches, one for each axis. These *must* be in the correct setting. Do you have the manual? If so, the setting info for all switches is in there.

If the setting is correct, then this might just be a parameter issue because the axis is assigned in the parameters so a mismatch would be a problem. The solution there would be to do the 161 format, but this *assumes* that the info in the EEPROM is correct. If the previous owner mucked with the parameters, they could have screwed the data up and your machine might not have any problems other than configuration. Finally, it is also possible that there is an actual fault in the drive. I'm tending to think this is the least likely of the scenarios because the S12 uses a common CPU. Assuming that the control thinks the X axis is OK, that would probably indicate that much of the Y axis is also OK.

Again... I'm crippled here with a poor internet connection and the fact that I'm way away from home and without my information. So, you may need to wait for or 4 weeks. Feel free to message me in the future. In the worst case scenario, you could send me your axis boards and I can check them out, but that is only realistic if you are in the United States. Hopefully the fault can be resolved without doing that....

Alan
The reason I say this is that if you open the back of the machine, you should

[Pectel]

Hi and thanks for the reply.
i quite eager to get this up and running. i dont have any manuals for the machine and tried googling m3 and stuff. got a list from dynamechatronics of manuals to look for.
have seen a lot of switches and the precious owner have probably tinkered with all off them
will chuck in a new battery and fire it up again to see if the screen comes back on.
i swear i had the led light up on both cards when i first powered it up.
have a lot of retention knobs
looking for a drawing picture of the coolant tank,is that also a collector for chips?

Cheers
geir

[MrMetric]

I have a copy of the Dyna Manual on my GDrive that I can share with you, although you'll need to send me your email address (PM it to me). And... do remember that I don't know what your timezone is, so there might be some jumping back and forth.... If I have a good internet connection and time, I can do more, but that will be spotty.

Please note that this particular machine uses a tool changer macro which needs to be manually loaded; the TC is not driven by the PLC. Fortunately, the macro is in the manual and is fairly short so you should be able to enter it by hand.

1/3/5 are really the ones you need to turn on. Then you can turn on 1/3. Each of these can be done for roughly 5 seconds and you can just press the reset switch on the 161 board; you don't need to turn the machine off and on again. Reset, as I recall, is DOWN, but the changing of the LEDs will pretty much confirm that.... No change and try the other direction! :-).

I don't have a drawing of the coolant tank, but I'm curious about the comment. Do you not *have* a tank and want to fabricate one? Or are you just looking for a drawing? It isn't anything special if you are curious. It is just a collection vessel.

[Pectel]

thank you, you have been very helpfull.
missing the coolant tank so i need to make one. just wondering if it served 2 functions as a chip collector too.
will send my email in PM.
will swap the new battery in on thursday when i get home.
btw seen some post regarding ni-cd batteries,i pulled this one and it was ni-mh.

cheers

[MrMetric]

OK.... Understood. I think I mentioned this last night, but the tank is just a tank. I can send detailed pictures of it in 3 weeks our so, but fundamentally it is kind of a U shaped thing, as I recall. I don't actually want to use mine because I had to take the enclosure off due to space. Eventually I'll move and put it back on, and at that point I'll use the tank.

NiMH will work just fine. Any lithium variant would not be advised.

I looked and didn't see a PM. If you could tell me where you are located it makes it easier too.

Regards,
Alan

[Pectel]

Thanks you
got the manual and will do some research when i get back home

[Pectel]

So i have got pretty much the servos sorted????control panel is another story. Think there is some wiring or card issues there.
Can jog the z and x axis both not the y axis.
Tool changer reports error 5.
Fired it up half hour ago and then the only thing that worked was the z axis mo matter what position the dial was in.
Thoughts? Wiring or card?
Cheers

[MrMetric]

Hi Geir,
Did I ever send you the Dyna manuals? The error code 5 will only be in that as the tool changer was strictly a Dyna affair; it has nothing to do with Mitsubishi.

Are you getting any errors on the displays for the servos? If you can't move 'em, I'd be checking the LED display before anything else. Second to that would be errors on the display. If you have a comm error, then it will probably only show there.

How is your battery? if it is bad/weak, then it is possible that you are losing parameters. Like all modern (ish) CNCs, the number of axis servos is configurable. If you have corrupted memory, then your parameters might have gotten muddled.

When you say "control panel is another story", can you elaborate a bit? Are you not seeing anything (you should be, if you are able to jog, etc)? I'm curious what is causing you to make that comment.

Alan

[Pectel]

Hi Geir,
Did I ever send you the Dyna manuals? The error code 5 will only be in that as the tool changer was strictly a Dyna affair; it has nothing to do with Mitsubishi.

Are you getting any errors on the displays for the servos? If you can't move 'em, I'd be checking the LED display before anything else. Second to that would be errors on the display. If you have a comm error, then it will probably only show there.

How is your battery? if it is bad/weak, then it is possible that you are losing parameters. Like all modern (ish) CNCs, the number of axis servos is configurable. If you have corrupted memory, then your parameters might have gotten muddled.

When you say "control panel is another story", can you elaborate a bit? Are you not seeing anything (you should be, if you are able to jog, etc)? I'm curious what is causing you to make that comment.

Alan

Hi Alan.
No errors on servo drives. Could move z and x axis with the handle but not y axis. LEDs on the dyna control panel indicate green on all except alarm which I think is related to the tool changer since error 5 is present there.
Fiddled around with the wiring a little and when I turn the program knob the only thing that works is the z axis. And it can be moved with the handle no matter what position the rotary switch is in.

Parameters seems to load ok, battery is new so I’m guessing either a faulty card or wiring issue.

[MrMetric]

OK, it is a little perplexing. Let's think this through one problem at a time....

The M3 has a daisy chain type of communications bus for the amplifiers. The cable starts at the M3, then the S12 (X/Y), then the S11 (Z), and finally the spindle drive. The daisy chain isn't a pickoff but, rather, separate cables. So if you can move the Z axis, it means that all of the signals are running *through* the actual X/Y axis driver. That tends to make me think that wiring is likely not the problem. I am assuming that you do not have *any* errors on either the amplifiers or the display console as you have noted neither. Nonetheless, it makes sense to confirm that. Another perplexing thing for me is that, generally speaking, the Sxx series amplifiers are pretty good about showing error IDs on the displays. Yet, you haven't noted any numbers. So... maybe you can tell me what you *do* see on each of the Sxx drives and the spindle drive.

I don't think you've confirmed whether or not you have the *Dyna* manual (not the Mitsubishi one) for the DM4400m. But, Error #5 on the ATC is 'Arm not retracted to the home position'.... So... Do you happen to have air connected to the machine? Be sure you have that because it is required for the ATC. In addition, you don't want the arm to 'wander' in because it could get broken off if you lower the Z axis. Plus, there is an air pressure switch.

If you have air connected, then you might have a bad proximity switch on the air cylinder, the switch might be in the incorrect position, or you could have some wiring issue. But I think this is a good time to throw the ball back in your court for confirmation....

BTW, you should fill up the auto-oiler with oil and be sure that you have let it pump oil into the ways. You can manually do this by lifting the lever too.

Can you do me a favor... Can you send me the parameters that you've downloaded *FROM* the machine. Yes, I know I sent you parameters, but I want to see if what you download match these just to be sure that the "round robin" test is accurate (that you've actually loaded what you think you loaded). Plus, can you tell me the ID selection on *each* of the drives, including the spindle. There are TWO rotary switches on the S12, one on the S11, and one on the spindle drive.

Something is amiss on your system with regard to the switch panel. However, I think it is premature to say that this is a wiring issue. I would NOT randomly start disconnecting wiring. But, it would be interesting if you could tell me a bit of history.... Do you know if someone actually did start randomly removing wires for some reason? Is there any evidence of that? A more likely scenario here is that either the parameters are incorrect or the PLC is bad.

The PLC on the DM4400m is written in EPROM on the plugin cartridge you see on the left side of the control. EPROMs technically have a published life of 20 years or so and, well lets see.... These machines were built in the early 90s, which makes them, hmmmmm, 30 years old or so! It could be that you have bit rot. The *good* news is that I make backups of all EPROMs, so I can definitely save your bacon (sorry, using my American slang here) with regard to that. Do you have a way of burning an EPROM if I give you a file? If not, then I may have to source an EPROM and send it to you.

I wouldn't get depressed yet.... You are making progress. Actually, things are moving along pretty well, I think.