[PeterTheWolf]

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Hello,

I have a Tree Journeyman 325 - SD1525-10 Drive (Z-Axis) Getting OT/RMS Light.

This machine was running fine for the last year with ambient temperatures in the 55° F to 65° F.

However, today, when has a ambient temperatures in the 82°, I am now getting OT/RMS light on the Z-Axis drive board one I start getting a NC program going.

I was hoping to get some help in find out what is causing this error LED light to come one.

I am not real electrically savvy. However, I do have the Meterman 38XR (Ture RMS AC+DC) Digital Multi-Meter for making checks.

I also have the Tree 325 Servo Drive Manual- SD1525 manual which does have some Schematics. However, I do not know how to read these schematics.

What I have found on this forum so far is this:

"The OT/RMS LED condition is caused by overtemp of the
heatsink ("Turns on if the temperature of the heat sink sensor exceeds 75-80 C. (167° - 176° F)")
or excessive RMS (meaning the amplifier was
required to deliver peak current for a period too long and beyond its capability). It says that can happen
if the motor is mechanically stalled or binding, or if the motor has a shorted armature."

What Heat-Sink is this referring too?

Attachment 439252


Here are some links that should help anyone will to help me.

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J325 Quick Links:

Machine
Existing Machine Schematics
Electronic Cabinet-Right Side
Electronic Cabinet-Back SIde
J325 Servo Drive-SD1525 Manual
Tree Journeyman 325 Designed Specs.


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[machinehop5]

...check to see if both Fans are running full speed?

DJ

[PeterTheWolf]

...check to see if both Fans are running full speed?

DJ

Yes .... This was one of the first things I checked. They both seem to be blowing air well.
I also tried running with the door open and a larger fan blowing into the drives; however, that did not seem to resolve the issue.

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[machinehop5]

...the AMP boards should all be the same. Power OFF machine and wait for few minutes for electrical discharging of Cap's....swap the offending Amp with one of the other Amps to see if, the problem moves with it. The amp modules are easy to remove with a long screw driver to loosen the two screws at the base. You only have to loosen the two screws only about 1 turn. Don't remove them.

one other thing...does the Rapid axis moves seem smooth or rough/jumpy ?
DJ

[PeterTheWolf]

.......swap the offending Amp with one of the other Amps to see if, the problem moves with it. .......
DJ

Yes, I will try this today.

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one other thing...does the Rapid axis moves seem smooth or rough/jumpy ?
DJ

When I first turn the power on to the AMP/Drives I can move the Z-Axis and it moves smooth and as designed.... for about 20-45 seconds before the OT/RMS Led light comes on.
I also hear the normal squealing of the powered drives move to a different frequency. Most noticeable that the one drive is no longer powered.

No rough or jerking .... does this mean the servo motor arbor is not shorting out and causing this issue?

Thanks for you help machinehop5

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[machinehop5]

When I first turn the power on to the AMP/Drives I can move the Z-Axis and it moves smooth and as designed.... for about 20-45 seconds before the OT/RMS Led light comes on.
No rough or jerking .... does this mean the servo motor arbor is not shorting out and causing this issue?

..anything is possible at this point, but I am willing to bet the Amp is just out of adjustment. I noticed in your photos the Y axis AMP is in the 4th axis spot....so someone has been playing with things for sure. I was reading the manual you posted earlier and you can do a "Simplified System Set-up" on page 17
http://www.ontimetooldesign.com/CNC/...525_Manual.pdf
read thru it two or three times and we can help you go from there.
DJ

[PeterTheWolf]

.................. I was reading the manual you posted earlier and you can do a "Simplified System Set-up" on page 17
http://www.ontimetooldesign.com/CNC/...525_Manual.pdf
read thru it two or three times and we can help you go from there.
DJ

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3/29/2020; 11:30am in the morning.

Attempt at running the machine again............ before Swapping Z-Axis servo board with another axis.

Starting Ambient Temperature: 72.0 ° F
Ending Ambient Temperature: 85.0 ° F

Starting Temperature Checks of the Z-Axis Drive Board
1.) Aluminum Heat Sink Back Plate: 69.5° F
2.) Resister #1 from the LED Light Edge of the board: 69.5° F
3.) Resister #2 from the LED Light Edge of the board: 69.5° F
4.) Resister #3 from the LED Light Edge of the board: 69.5° F
5.) Resister #4 from the LED Light Edge of the board: 69.5° F

After Three hours of running; Temperature Checks of the Z-Axis Drive Board

1.) Aluminum Heat Sink Back Plate: 97.0° F
2.) Resister #1 from the LED Light Edge of the board: 97.0° F
3.) Resister #2 from the LED Light Edge of the board: 97.0° F
4.) Resister #3 from the LED Light Edge of the board: 97.0° F
5.) Resister #4 from the LED Light Edge of the board: 97.0° F

I did not experience and OT/RMS Led light errors. So, I did not try swapping this Z-Axis Drive Board with another axis.

However, I would like to get a handle on this to prevent future errors.

It would certainly seem like an adjustment on this drive.
I have read the manual pages 17-18 and on page 17, item “8” talks abit on the RMS pot (R44).
However, I am not sure what it is refereeing to when it talks about the “desired level of RMS Limiting”.
It also seem like it is tied to a couple of the other settings. I do not have an issue with adjusting these
setting as long as they do not have something to do with the original Delta 20 CNC controller.

I need to make one important thing clear here.
The controller is no longer the original Delta 20 CNC.
I have retrofit this with the DynoMotion KFLOP/Kanalog, which works very well; however,
the tuning of the servo drives was done through Kmotion according to this controller.
This is the software/interface for the controller that DynoMotion offers with their controller boards.

If this pecks your interest, you can certainly view the thread of this complete retrofit,
which took over a year to complete, (as I am not really electrically savvy) at this
location: Link to Tree J325 Retrofit.

I certainly appreciate any advise as to how to Analysis this and possibly correct this issues from happening again.

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J325 Quick Links:

Machine
Existing Machine Schematics
Electronic Cabinet-Right Side
Electronic Cabinet-Back SIde
J325 Servo Drive-SD1525 Manual
Tree Journeyman 325 Designed Specs.


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[machinehop5]

Assuming you have checked the motor brushes etc and the is no mechanically stalling or binding going on.......things you can check with your VOM (Volt Ohm Meter) with machine Power OFF....try doing steps 19-21 for each Amp xyz and writing down the readings. Also, look at the RMS44 Pot on each Amp. are all about the same position? 12 o'clock 2o'clock etc or you can use your VOM to measure between Ground (TP1) and the left hand side of R19. There is a Chart on page 33 of Manual for readings/settings.

Good luck on your mission,
DJ

[PeterTheWolf]

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Assuming you have checked the motor brushes etc and the is no mechanically stalling or binding going on.......

DJ

Honestly, I have not checked the servo motor brushes of the Z-Axis since I purchased the machine. However, I have replace all the brushes on the X-Axis and Y-Axis, which really did not need it.
There was very little dust and the existing brushes I removed all looked pretty good compared to the new ones I purchased. I did document this in he link below.
Since the Z-Axis Servo Motor is not easily accessed, I have not looked at the Z-Axis Motor brushes yet. My thought was, if the X-Axis & Y-Axis servo motor brushes were not too bad, then the
Z-Axis servo motor brush should not be bad.

Would this be a poor assumption?

In any case, I am not seeing any mechanical stalling and/or binding on the Z-Axis. In fact, the Z-Axis servo motor was the easiest to tune with the least amount of error while tuning.


Baldor DC Servo Motor Brushes and Cap

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things you can check with your VOM (Volt Ohm Meter) with machine Power OFF....try doing steps 19-21 for each Amp xyz and writing down the readings. Also, look at the RMS44 Pot on each Amp. are all about the same position? 12 o'clock 2o'clock etc or you can use your VOM to measure between Ground (TP1) and the left hand side of R19. There is a Chart on page 33 of Manual for readings/settings.

DJ

DJ ...........

I really appreciate you taking the time to offer directions for making these checks. I hope to get to this over the next weekend.
I will certainly report back my findings.


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J325 Quick Links:

Machine
Existing Machine Schematics
Electronic Cabinet-Right Side
Electronic Cabinet-Back SIde
J325 Servo Drive-SD1525 Manual
Tree Journeyman 325 Designed Specs.
Baldor DC Servo Motor Brushes and Cap


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[Harsh786]

I want to change the language from japnese in to english in fanuc om b custom macro so what will be do please help me

[PeterTheWolf]

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..........things you can check with your VOM (Volt Ohm Meter) with machine Power OFF....try doing steps 19-21 for each Amp xyz and writing down the readings. Also, look at the RMS44 Pot on each Amp. are all about the same position? 12 o'clock 2o'clock etc or you can use your VOM to measure between Ground (TP1) and the left hand side of R19. There is a Chart on page 33 of Manual for readings/settings.
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DJ

I was able to make get test-point readings today.

Here are my results:

Attachment 439934 Here is a Link to the Spreadsheet

And a Link to a Higher Res. Image

So, Would this be causing the RMS Led Light to come on since it is not set to the higher Amp setting of 15 Amps?
Would setting this Z-Axis RMS R44 POT to be more like 9.160 k Ohms be a better setting?
And, If I change this RMS R44 POT setting different, would it cause me to have to re-tune the servo motor thru the controller?

Thanks again for any feedback.

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J325 Quick Links:

Machine
Existing Machine Schematics
Electronic Cabinet-Right Side
Electronic Cabinet-Back SIde
J325 Servo Drive-SD1525 Manual
Tree Journeyman 325 Designed Specs.
Test Point & RMS R44 Results.




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[machinehop5]

So, Would this be causing the RMS Led Light to come on since it is not set to the higher Amp setting of 15 Amps? Yes, I would adjust to 15 Amp like the other axis.

Would setting this Z-Axis RMS R44 POT to be more like 9.160 k Ohms be a better setting? Yes....and may fix your problem.

And, If I change this RMS R44 POT setting different, would it cause me to have to re-tune the servo motor thru the controller? Probably will not change.

...looking at your very nice Charts of XYZ Ohmic readings Z axis seems a little odd from XY and could be drawing more current causing the RMS/ Fault. If all your Motors and drivetrains are the same I would think all the Amps should be set about the same. I think you see the pattern/logic. But that would affect your Tuning.

DJ

[PeterTheWolf]

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Well, it would seem that the Z-Axis OT/RMS Led Error Light is no longer coming on.... since I change the RMS R44 POT to the closer what the X-Axis and Y-Axis are. I changed it to 9.156 k Ohms.

However, Now I am getting a Y-Axis "VOL" Led Error light coming on. This generates a following error in KMotion (Controller Software) and stops the machine.

When I made my (TP1 thru checks TP6) checks of each of the amp boards yesterday, I did disconnect each board and removed them from the the machine as it made it much easier to make the checks.

However, I never changed anything on the Y-Axis and/or X-Axis boards. But now I am seeing this "VOL" Led Error light come on after running for about 2-4 minutes.
I can re-set the amp by turning it off and then turning it back on; however, this will only clear the "VOL" Led light error for about another 2-4 minutes run time, then the "VOL" error LED light comes back on.


Attachment 439982

Certainly open to any advice on this "VOL" error.

Thanks,

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[machinehop5]

is the plug on J4 off one Pin...?

[PeterTheWolf]

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is the plug on J4 off one Pin...?

Yes ... when I first put it back together I made sure that I hit all pins on the connectors.

I just went out and re-visit this connectors on the Y-Axis. Yes, they are connected on all the pins.

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[machinehop5]

start tuning Y...mfg spec

[machinehop5]

...just noticed after re reading this thread today..and looking at the wiring photos...you are wired for Differential mode...(open loop)

[PeterTheWolf]

...just noticed after re reading this thread today..and looking at the wiring photos...you are wired for Differential mode...(open loop)

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Yes, This is because of the Controller I am using ... DynoMotion.

However, I am not thinking that does not contribute to the issues I am experiencing with the "VOL" led light coming on my Y-Axis.

I am wondering if it is one of the four capacitors on the board?

I was advised from a maintenance engineer who works on CNC machines that voltage issues with older drive boards tend to be the capacitors.

Attachment 440672 Or Hi Res Image

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Attachment 440674 or Hi Res Blow-Up of the Four Capacitors

Any thoughts on this?

I check the Tuning of the Y-axis and the they actually look pretty good.

Here is an image of the Y-axis Tuned:

Attachment 440678 or Hi Res Image

My error is only 4 counts out of 20,000 count / inch.

That's only like ... 4/20,000 = 0.0002" on the servo encoder. If I understand what I am looking at ... that is not that bad at all.

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J325 Quick Links:

Machine
Existing Machine Schematics
Electronic Cabinet-Right Side
Electronic Cabinet-Back SIde
J325 Servo Drive-SD1525 Manual
Tree Journeyman 325 Designed Specs.
Test Point & RMS R44 Results.




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[machinehop5]

...ohmic readings for dif mode ? vs torque mode ? read that last page of SD manual you have.posted nicely...
J325_Pictures
itsuptoyoutomakethecallalways

[Muzzer]

Looking at the date codes on those electronic components (1989-1991), this is an old system, nearly 30 years old. You should be prepared for failure of any part of the controller at any time and be sure you don't have anything critical invested in it. While you may be able to source replacements for many of the discrete components, you might be coming to the point where a modern retrofit might be in order?

Like me you appear to be a hobby user but probably prefer using the machine to mending it. Without looking in detail, it appears the machine is using brushed DC servos(?), in which case there are modern DC servo drivers available. This would allow you to leave the existing motors in place but replace the electronics with something much simpler and more compact. There's no right or wrong, only options!