[Sergeyrusa]

Hi guys
A sensor RTS is installed on the Genos milling machine
I calibrated it to measure the length of the instrument. (Test bar)
But I can’t calibrate the sensor to measure the radius of the tool.
* (Auto Tool Radius compensation - already on machine program installed on the machine)
Question:
Is the sensor calibrated on all sides? (+Y, -Y,+X,-X,)

[deadlykitten]

hy sergey, that cnc is new, and the rts system is also relatively new ... so you should have strong suport about them, from your okuma dealer and from renishaw

if the senzor was installed properly, you should have all the macros inside the machine, but perhaps you have not yet been instructed about those ( arround here, suport & shoop floor instructions, from our okuma dealer is free, 27/4, remote, etc )

if machine / system was old, you should have started to dig into the msb files, and also into the manuals, for hours, maybe days / weeks, etc, but is not the case ... contact the person that actually installed that system on your machine, and i believe that it was your okuma dealer

one more thing : okuma machines can move the spindle without rpm, so talk with them to activate the x+x-y+y- without rpm; check this from the manuals :

• M130, M131 (For Cutting Feed, Spindle Rotation Condition Valid / Invalid)
• Usually, in the G01, G02, and G03 modes, the spindle must be rotating to execute axis feed
• These M codes are set to ignore this condition (M130) or validate it (M131)

kindly

[Sergeyrusa]

Thanks for the answer deadlykitten
Yes, I also think that the matter is in MSB files
It measures the length of the instrument correctly,but the radius can not.
I already turned to Okuma dealers, sent them MSB files from the machine
I look forward to hearing from them.

[deadlykitten]

hy, i am glad that you can check that managament data card arround here, when an okuma machine is delivered, the okuma dealer will perform an instruction, generally 3 days, with 1 or more operators, etc

but renishaws do not enter in this area, because they are not an okuma product, but only an add-on : this means that okuma has to pay renishaw for installing those devices

for example, let's say that you live in spain okuma japan sends the machine to okuma europe technical center ( germany or france ); there they may install chucks, renishaws, etc, and after that machine is being shipped to you directly ... your local okuma dealer, thus the spain okuma dealer, only sees the machine after it arives to you taddaa !!! thus it may be possible that okuma spain knows ( or not knows ) about your renishaw setup

you have the renishaw hardwear, but no clue how to use it; there are at least these 5 possibilites :
... you will receive a custom application from your dealer
... you may need to download latest renishaw okuma app
... you may be given only the macros (as *.msb), but you have not yet been given the documentation about how to use it
... you may be required to get some renishaw software
... you may have all macros inside a folder that is not in MD1, nor in C:\OSP, but somewhere else ... thus files may be on your machine, but you have no clue where are those

each one of those variants has a different purchasing cost, and may deliver different functionalities ( different ways for setting the measurement, but in the end, you need a macro inside your machine )

in 1st place, is up to you to insist to receive instructions ... talk on phone with your local okuma dealer, technician, service, etc

I already turned to Okuma dealers, sent them MSB files from the machine
I look forward to hearing from them.

sometimes, it may be possible that your request has reached a person that can not handle it ... thus be sure that you talk with the right person / kindly

[Sergeyrusa]

Hy,
Many thanks
I understood you I will solve the problem
In general, Okuma very bad integrates renishaw products on its machines

[deadlykitten]

In general, Okuma very bad integrates renishaw products on its machines

integrations are great, applications are great, but you have to get in touch with the right person

some situations are making some guys decide that suport is bad, or a product is bad, but after a while, when you know how things are connected, you may have a more dirrect approach

the reason why you are in such a situation, is that okuma genos 5axis is relatively new, and also the renishaw system is relatively new, and this means that your local okuma dealer may have very few machines, like yours, delivered in spain thus they may not yet have encountered enough similar setups, in order to get experience

have patience, and insist ... i will look inside my manuals, to see if there is something / kindly

ps : a few years ago, i was looking for some updates for the renishwa system, and i could not get a quote, simply because the okuma dealer has no clue about those ... and i had to wait until a renishaw dealer actually appeared, and when i discussed with it, not only that he understood, but they were having a much more capable product, and told me that some of their capabilites are not fully installed on some cnc's, because some cnc dealers try to minimize costs, by buying a limited product, but some cnc vendors have no clue that that product can be used in a better maner ... so, it makes sense, doesn't it ?

[Sergeyrusa]

Hi
Thanks for the answer
I completely agree with you
You're right.
I will contact Okuma dealers to solve this problem.

[deadlykitten]

me again : ask them if they have a similar renishaw system installed on a 5 axis machine, or at least on a 3 axis machine

if yes, then ask them about what macros are available on those machines : z, x+, x-, y+, y-, with/without rpm

if you are lucky, you may find out that another client uses CALL OOxx PX? in order to touch or calibrate among x ...

---

i believe that you have osp300, and this means that all manuals are on machine hdd; search for the folder that contains *.pdf manuals : there should be many such files stored in a single folder, and some of them are in english, russian, french, italian, etc, thus 1st move is to take apart those that are in english ( 10-15 minutes task ), then use an in-file search to find potential infos : for example, for z, i believe that you use oo30, thus search that inside your files

if you wish, just send me all those files, and also specify what you enter in mdi when you measure/calibrate on z

i have manuals, but not for 5 axis, thus i may not find usefull infos ... osp manuals are general, but also particular to machine specifics / kindly

ps : in case you don't know, in-file search means that you may search in multiple files at once, thus searching time is very short; searching inside the manuals may provide a clue pretty fast, while trying to understand the *.msb procedures takes loooong time

[Sergeyrusa]

Hi
For calibration, I used NULL XY NULL Z programs
I calibrated the sensor along the x y z axis, The sensor works well. measures tool length correctly When calibrating by radius, the test bar moves only in the positive direction of the Y axis. (+Y) Changed the values PAPD (PAPD=1 PAPD=2 PAPD=3 PAPD=4) the result does not change. ( test bar moves only in the positive direction of the Y axis. (+Y)) (attachment file
NULL XY
G15H99
VFST=#81H
CALL OO30 PAXI=3
M02

NULL Z
IF[VTLCN EQ 99]NAT8
T99 M6 (Test Bar)
NAT8
LENG=150.02
G56H99
M653 ( use sensor 2)
M127 (ON RTS)
VFST=#81H
CALL OO30 PLI=LENG PAXI=4
G0Z600
M127
M02
CALIB-RAD.MIN
(***** calibration****)
VFST=#83H
(PLI-lenght PX-radius)
N1 S200 M4
M653
M127
N2 CALL OO30 PAXI=#17H PLI=150.02 PX=14.993 PNOR=1 PAPD=1
M127
N3 M30

[deadlykitten]

i searched papd inside my manuals, and is not listed into main sections ...

for z measurement, i use call oo30, only after z has been calibrated, thus, if you have allready calibrated yours, why don't you try CALL OO30 ?

if it works, then maybe you may use also CALL OO30 PY=anticipated radius ? i attached files about calibrating and measuring for z & y, but i don't know if those work for you / kindly

ps : both pdf files have same content when it comes to calibration and offset measuring

[Sergeyrusa]

Hi
Question i believe that you have osp300
Answre yes P300MA-H

[deadlykitten]

programs that you have used to calibrate your machine are different then what is inside the manuals

NULL Z :
... PLI has to be used with PAXI=7, but you used it with PAXI=4 ( at this moment, i have no clue what PAXI does; there are examples on this forum, for z calibration, with paxi7, but also others with paxi4)
... OO30 should raise the spindle by default, but you have G00 Z600

NULL XY :
... your program specify G15H, while G15H is modal, and senzor XY position is not dependant on curent wcs

CALIB RAD :
... should be used with PY, while your program uses PNOR and PAPD

PNOR acts like an M19 interlock, and i don't think that it is critical to use it

it may mean that also your msb files are designed differently, since some arguments from the manuals are not used ... but i am not sure about this

i would try to execute the procedures listed inside the manuals

MDI mode :
VFST=#81H
CALL OO30 PAXI=3 ( xy calibration )
CALL OO30 PAXI=7 PLI=150.02 ( z calibration )
CALL OO30 PAXI=#17H PLI=150.02 PY=Accurate radius of reference tool ( y calibration )

CALL OO30 ( measuring on z : check if ha is updated; ha = z offset )
CALL OO30 PY= anticipated cutter radius ( measuring on y : check if da is updated; da = radius offset )

carefull, feed & rapid override at small procent and check where to use those m127 and m653 ... also, if you wish, use m130 before Y calibration and measuring, so to do it without rpm, then restore machine status by using m131

i can't test how PY arguments work, since i don't have acces to a senzor like yours

i am afraid that it may only offset y axis, and still try to measure z offset, because there are examples on this forum that use CALL oo30 PY to measure z offset ... i don't know

---

hmm, it seems that you should play with the VFST bits, in order to change the behaviour : if you look on the forum, there are only 2 values for it ( measuring or breakage detection ), but actually you have to edit it, in order to activate measuring also across Y axis ( check section 1-2-3, bit1 and bit2 )

in this moment i am entering an unknown area, because you are 1st that demands calibration on y, but i believe that the key is there, inside the manual ... you have to play with oo30 and the vfst

so, i would do this, without using those null programs :
... calibrate xy position
... calibrate z
... measure z and test if offset is updated, and run a simple program, drilling air, to see how it works

... now i would move to y : i would pay more attention to vfst settings, and try to make it work; this will take a bit / kindly

[deadlykitten]

the key to make your senzor work is the vfst

call oo30 py=? may behave at least in 3 different ways :
... only z measuring
... only y measuring
... both above

toogling between those modes is done by editing vfst ( check page 6130-E P-18 )

on a normal machine, with a normal senzor, no one cares about vfst, because it is being set once ( and maybe again during a broken-tool detection, but this is rare )

on your machine, you will have to change it in respect to how to use the senzor

so far, this is my understanding about how it works

one more thing : before begining to mess with the y calibration and measurement, i would run a series of tests, in order to avoid future crases : thus i would measure different tools with diferent lengths, in different wcs ( so to see if z offset will always be the same for each tool ), then activate them in other different wcs and cutt air ( so to check that the tool is going where it should )

i would also change a & b axis values, and measure z offset, to understand how a & b axis are behaving during measurement ...

only now i would begin to run trials for y calibration and measuring

so, what do you think ? kindly

ps : yes, i have a bit of experience with osp300

[Sergeyrusa]

Hi
Thanks so much for such an extended answer.
I have something to think about.
Thanks, I will try

[Sergeyrusa]

Hi
On the machine I tried to measure 6 tools. Everything is good.
Measurements are correct
I’ll try these radius measurement programs on Monday.
measurement Y
VFST=#83H
CALL OO30 PY=30 PD=99
M2
calibration Y
VFST=#80H
CALL OO30 PAXI=#17H PLI=199.947 PY=24.997
M02

[Sergeyrusa]

Many thanks

[deadlykitten]

    decimal |  binary  | hex |    infos
    128       10000000   80H   breakage, z   axis
    129       10000001   81H   normal  , z   axis
    128+2     10000010   82H   breakage, y   axis
    129+2     10000011   83H   normal,   y   axis
    128+2+4   10000110   86H   breakage, z&y axis
    129+2+4   10000111   87H   normal,   z&y axis

* normal   = measuring offset or radius

* breakage = finding if a tool has moved inside the holder, by comparing the offset (or radius) from after measurement, with the value before;
for example, if offset was 100 and new offset is 101, then an error will pop up, only if 101-100 > specific_tolerance

for more infos, please check post3 from here : https://www.cnczone.com/forums/okuma/348754-broken-tool-detection.html

at this moment, in order to calibrate and measure, use only values for *normal, thus avoid *breaking

*breaking has to be used in the future, to detect "broken" tools

VFST=#83H and VFST=131 and VFST=129+2 and VFST=0129+02 are equivalent codes

your are welcome

future tips :
... declare PLI as you wish, in reference to an absolute position, for example to represent the distance from the spindle face, and this means that you should ignore the test-bar; this will allow to use offsets as absolute values, thus a tool offset value will represent the distance between tool cutting edge and spindle face; this allows syncronization with external software and tool measuring devices
... re-write and edit those msb files, so to gain more control

[Sergeyrusa]

Hi deadlykitten
Well, you're just a master (guru)
sorry as your name
I still found the documentation

[deadlykitten]

this is your code :

measurement Y
VFST=#83H ( this is y measuring, so is ok )
CALL OO30 PY=30 PD=99
M2
calibration Y
VFST=#80H ( this is not y calibration, but z breakage )
CALL OO30 PAXI=#17H PLI=199.947 PY=24.997
M02

please be carefull :
1) you don't have to change VFST; calibration and measuring are done with same VFST value; i just shared a table at my previous post
2) so far, you have used 2 different PLI values : 199.947 and 150.02; be carefull, because the manuals are specifing that during calibration, PLI has to be constant ... if you use different values, you have to be sure about what you are doing if you use 2 test bars, it may seem ok, but it may be possible that those 2 test bars have different spindle-line references ... however, it should work if the difference between those is small, but to avoid any doubts, use a single test-bar

please take a look; i hope it works

     = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
          1. CALIBRATION
     = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =


    1.1) z  calibration for z offset, or HA ; requires VFST = 81H or VFST = 129


        CALL OO30 VFST=81H PAXI=7 PLI=123.456


    1.2) xy calibration for z offset, or HA ; requires VFST = 81H or VFST = 129


        CALL OO30 VFST=81H PAXI=3


    1.3) y calibration for    radius, or DA ; requires VFST = 83H or VFST = 131


        CALL OO30 VFST=83H PAXI=#17H PLI=123.456 PY=radius of test bar


     = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
          2. MEASUREMENT
     = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =




    2.1) z offset, or HA ;                    requires VFST = 81H or VFST = 129


        CALL OO30 VFST=81H                     ( spindle will be concentric with the senzor )
        CALL OO30 VFST=81H         PX=10       ( spindle will be shifted in x by 10 )
        CALL OO30 VFST=81H               PY=20 ( spindle will be shifted in y by 20 )
        CALL OO30 VFST=81H         PX=10 PY=20 ( spindle will be shifted in x by 10, and in y by 20 )
        CALL OO30 VFST=81H PRS=50              ( spindle will be concentric with the senzor, but rotated at 50* - this is for measuring indexing tools, thus tools with inserts )
        CALL OO30 VFST=81H PRS=120 PX=10 PY=5  ( spindle phase 120degrees, x shifted 10, y shifted 5 )


    2.2) y offset, or DA ;                    requires VFST = 83H or VFST = 131


        CALL OO30 VFST=83H  PY=20              ( spindle phase 0degrees, will expect to measure a tool with radius aprox20 )


    2.3) z & y offset, HA and DA ;            requires VFST = 86H or VFST = 134


        CALL OO30 VFST=86H  PY=20


     = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
          3. BREAKAGE DETECTION
     = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =


      // just let me know if you need it :)

[deadlykitten]

hey sergey, did it worked ? kindly