[subnoize]

Hello!

I recently added an ATC spindle to my CNC. I quickly out grew the static tool posts that came with it.

When I looked for a tool carousel I couldn't find one that was affordable and my controller box was out of space anyways.

With all of that I had to think outside the box!

I ended up building a very robust 10 slot tool carousel with some neat features. It didn't take long before I started getting requests from people to build them one as well.

It would be a shame to leave all this work in the shadows. I wanted to reach out to you folks here and ask if I should take the time and energy and open source this project?

If you are interested I have posted a video to youtube (first time for everything!). It is of the first prototype working and should give you an idea of the level of quality it offers even in its infancy.

If you like it I will start putting together the resources, instructions and maybe even make kits. Please watch the video and "like" it. I will judge the interest by comments here and on youtube.

Thanks!

--jb

[Steve303]

Can't see a lot in your video but what I can see looks great! You could post your files on github at no cost you you. What spindle are you using?

[subnoize]

Can't see a lot in your video but what I can see looks great! You could post your files on github at no cost you you. What spindle are you using?

I was measuring the lift off and seating during operation of the drawbar in that video. I need to get the system cleaned up and better video made of it.

I use GitHub a great deal, but the time it takes to get this stuff up there in a usable form will be the real challenge.

The spindle is CNCDepot.net's S30C. Nice little 3hp for non-ferrous materials. The tool carousel is ISO30 but can be easily adapted.

--jb

[arizonavideo]

Looks like a nice changer. Lots of peole woud like plans and the macro. Are you running Mach3 or4?

[subnoize]

Looks like a nice changer. Lots of peole woud like plans and the macro. Are you running Mach3 or4?

I am running Mach4 but it would be easy to port to Mach3 and LinuxCNC. I have decided to shoot for end of June or early July for release to github. I am making a custom PCB to simplify the electronics.

[subnoize]

Well! Good news. I have "safe'd" the code more than I thought I could. There is some weirdness in Lua that if you don't ask for things in a very specific way it tends to just ignore you. If anyone is really technical and would like to discuss I am happy to chat or do a webinar on the topic.

I have now added an automatic dust shoe with height adjustable for each tool. The tool measuring script works great, sped it up considerably without losing accuracy. The goal is to eventually get the dust shoe to adjust to the tool offset but right now its just a value that sets the height for each tool. I would love to make it a offset in the truest sense where the shoe adjust to the tool offset and then the dust shoe offset says either higher or lower than that.

I need to print an Arduino case because I had to fly one out to the Z axis for the dust shoe control. It runs the actuator for the shoe. It listens for M3, M4 and M5 codes. M3 and M4 it lowers to the tool defined dust shoe position. On M5 it retracts to the safe position. In the future I will probably need to either up the speed of the actuator or I will need to get an actuator where I can read the position.

I hope to have the system to a state where I can video it doing its thing this weekend. I can't believe it has been a year in development :-(

[PrestonSMA]

Sounds Great Subnoize...looking forward to the video and getting everything working...

For me the Dust Shield would only be used when cutting Particle Board on the CNC router...the Hurco
would not need it...

Best Regards,

Preston

[bill south]

Subnoize;
Nice system and great display of the advantages of 3D printing. Love the way you took the simplistic approach to "concept" and the follow through in execution. If there were a way to use TTS tooling with some type of drawbar system, I would jump in a heartbeat for my router. However, you system just satisfies a major part to the ATC formula.
Thanks for posting and hope to see a follow up to your system.
Stay Safe.
Bill

[subnoize]

Subnoize;
Nice system and great display of the advantages of 3D printing. Love the way you took the simplistic approach to "concept" and the follow through in execution. If there were a way to use TTS tooling with some type of drawbar system, I would jump in a heartbeat for my router. However, you system just satisfies a major part to the ATC formula.
Thanks for posting and hope to see a follow up to your system.
Stay Safe.
Bill

Thanks for the input! Once I have this out we can start looking at other systems to integrate with. Keep in touch!

[milo30]

Is it static in place or does it move, besides the rotating? My machine has a linear tool rack and I have room for up to 10 tools but I am giving up several inches of my work table for the rack. I'd like to go to something that will give me the table length back. It looks like a nice rack though.

[subnoize]

Is it static in place or does it move, besides the rotating? My machine has a linear tool rack and I have room for up to 10 tools but I am giving up several inches of my work table for the rack. I'd like to go to something that will give me the table length back. It looks like a nice rack though.

Same here. If it retracts from the workspace then I gain about 8" inches back on my 5'x10' machine. I paid for that workspace and I want to use it. That is what was killing me with static posts. I have a 8 foot A axis that I have to remove to get 10 tools comfortably on my machine. I have the added problem my machine is dual process (spindle and plasma) so I have to remove them to place the water table on the machine. The point of having two Z axis was speed of switching between processes but the static tool posts or the carousel protruding into the workspace causes problems.

The response to your question is IN PROGRESS and HIGH priority. I just got through talking to the worm drive manufacturer. They have a linear drive system that I could use so now comes the engineering issues with moving that carousel out on an arm and having the spindle collide with it and it not flex.

The added cost is going to be high :-( but is probably worth the extra cost.

Then there is the dust shoe! Argh! Metal chips is one thing, blow them off with a vortex cooler but wood dust? Gotta vacuum that stuff up. It aint ATC if you are having to manually remove the dust shoe for tool changes.

[PrestonSMA]

Add me to those interested in you Open Sourcing as much as possible.

I have a Hurco Bed Mill that I converted and would like to do an ATC,
and it looks like you have done things quite nicely so far...definitely need
to have the ATC retract away from the Spindle...

Looking forward to further post.

Best Regards,

Preston

[subnoize]

Preston,

Cool! I just got through installing Alpha 3 as I am calling it. I have replaced all of the 3D printed parts with plasma cut components. I will make the 3D printed one available put it doesn't age well.

Since I am out of space on my controller I am slogging through a lot of software to add motion and sensors. At this point I am really bogged down writing for this awful Mach4 software product. Lua has to be the absolutely worst scripting language ever invented. Makes Python look pretty by comparison!

I will probably release the design, DXF and STLs before I can have the PCB, software and kits available. If you have space on your controller then you will be in luck early.

Anyways, here are some images for the Alpha 3. I might replace the birch playwood with a 3/16 or 1/4 plate with threaded holes. I kind like how the plywood will distort and return to shape. Makes small errors in the tool change process not damage your very expensive spindle!

Attachment 447602
Attachment 447604

[underdog]

Interesting. I'd like to help you manufacture and distribute your product when you are ready to go prime time.

[subnoize]

Update 2022:

There are 3 things to consider going forwards;

1. Releasing plans for the tool carousel is futile. Everyone has a different machine and you would have to spend the time to figure it out on your machine anyways. Thankfully this is actually the easiest part!
2. Tool carousels are for the most part adding another axis and homing sensor to your existing machine. If you have the space in your control box, add another axis and sensor and be done with it! Don't over complicate things!
3. If you DO NOT have the space for an extra axis then you "may" be interested in my project for the controller software BUT any ModBus Axis controller will work. You can get them cheap on Amazon.

That said, what I do have complete and in final testing stages is a fully retracting ATC Tool Carousel for the AvidCNC PRO60120. It does NOT require the extended gantry but it does give more room to play with.

Here are the features of "ATC-10 for the AvidCNC PRO60120" as we are calling it;

1. Laser cut components with some parts 3D Printed as a cost saving measure
2. Complete self contained electronics package with ModBus over TCP/IP as the comms protocol
3. Safety sensors for pneumatic ATCs, both running pressure and drawbar pressure (reduces wear and tear on your spindle when you forget to turn the compressor on)
4. Shortest route, prompt and pause for tools not currently on the carousel (infinite tools with only 10 slots!)
5. Retractable carousel leaves your full work envelope available for most sheet stock
6. Fully automated dust shoe option will be available

TImeline for availability is April 2022.

[subnoize]

For the record, a great American made rotary axis to use for your own carousel is the Sherline PN3700 CNC here: https://www.sherline.com/product/370...-rotary-table/

[slickbeerd]

Update 2022:

There are 3 things to consider going forwards;

1. Releasing plans for the tool carousel is futile. Everyone has a different machine and you would have to spend the time to figure it out on your machine anyways. Thankfully this is actually the easiest part!
2. Tool carousels are for the most part adding another axis and homing sensor to your existing machine. If you have the space in your control box, add another axis and sensor and be done with it! Don't over complicate things!
3. If you DO NOT have the space for an extra axis then you "may" be interested in my project for the controller software BUT any ModBus Axis controller will work. You can get them cheap on Amazon.

That said, what I do have complete and in final testing stages is a fully retracting ATC Tool Carousel for the AvidCNC PRO60120. It does NOT require the extended gantry but it does give more room to play with.

Here are the features of "ATC-10 for the AvidCNC PRO60120" as we are calling it;

1. Laser cut components with some parts 3D Printed as a cost saving measure
2. Complete self contained electronics package with ModBus over TCP/IP as the comms protocol
3. Safety sensors for pneumatic ATCs, both running pressure and drawbar pressure (reduces wear and tear on your spindle when you forget to turn the compressor on)
4. Shortest route, prompt and pause for tools not currently on the carousel (infinite tools with only 10 slots!)
5. Retractable carousel leaves your full work envelope available for most sheet stock
6. Fully automated dust shoe option will be available

TImeline for availability is April 2022.

Dude! I just got a PRO60120 and bought a cncdepot spindle (waiting for shipment), now I need (want) the tool carousel Please tell me that you've gotten this wrapped up? Very interested in aquiring/making this project!

[subnoize]

Hello! I am still working on this project. I have been having troubles with Mach4 and Lua. The actual ATC carousel has been wrapped up for a while now. I am looking into mass production for a few components. I will probably add another sensor to check if the pressure is available to begin with. If you do something stupid like forget to turn on your compressor it tends to break things :-(

BUT! The good news is crashes are eliminated for the most part see above for the one still giving me issues). Mach4 can be difficult sometimes, Lua is always difficult. If you have an AvidCNC/CNC Router Parts or a 8020.net based machine them you will be in a good position for beta testing. I have sourced the worn drive, servos and controllers to USA manufacturers, Yay! The price seems reasonable so far.

Anyways, here is a video to show the carousel working and a tool offset script running. I am still being conservative with the speeds so don't let the slowness of this put you off;

https://youtu.be/MdIsqIWwfRI

[mactec54]

Hello! I am still working on this project. I have been having troubles with Mach4 and Lua. The actual ATC carousel has been wrapped up for a while now. I am looking into mass production for a few components. I will probably add another sensor to check if the pressure is available to begin with. If you do something stupid like forget to turn on your compressor it tends to break things :-(

BUT! The good news is crashes are eliminated for the most part see above for the one still giving me issues). Mach4 can be difficult sometimes, Lua is always difficult. If you have an AvidCNC/CNC Router Parts or a 8020.net based machine them you will be in a good position for beta testing. I have sourced the worn drive, servos and controllers to USA manufacturers, Yay! The price seems reasonable so far.

Anyways, here is a video to show the carousel working and a tool offset script running. I am still being conservative with the speeds so don't let the slowness of this put you off;

Well Done the manufacture of the carousel most likely is not a problem for most that are into machine building, the synchronization software macro is what most would struggle with, the tool setter would have to be a lot faster or did you have that part slowed down

How is Mach4 working out

[subnoize]

Well Done the manufacture of the carousel most likely is not a problem for most that are into machine building, the synchronization software macro is what most would struggle with, the tool setter would have to be a lot faster or did you have that part slowed down

How is Mach4 working out

Oh, gosh. Slowed way down but my machine isn't fast to start with. The servo can tear that worm drive up pretty quickly too. That is the little NEMA 23 from Teknic.

Mach4 is pretty I guess but is has some terrible "gotchas" that can break things.

I would never, ever, not in a million years use Lua to control a machine that could mame, injure or kill someone. Probably the dumbest thing I have seen in my 35 years in the industry. But I am stuck with it until I can get the money up to replace it.

I have tried to get the owners of Mach4 to give me a developers seat so I can do this in C/C++ but they never answer my inquiries.

If I were to buy my machine today I would leave off the Warp9 ESS, and everything associated with it. I would use LinuxCNC instead.