523,752 active members*
2,255 visitors online*
Register for free
Login
IndustryArena Forum > CNC Electronics > Stepper Motors / Drives > Power supply and driver suggestions requested
Results 1 to 16 of 16
  1. #1

    Join Date
    Jan 2020
    Posts
    29

    Power supply and driver suggestions requested

    Hi guys,
    After finally finishing a DIY build that has been running very well, I have been given an older vytek rebel 4'x8' machine and am going to start refurbishing it. The machine is a really interesting design with ballscrews on the x and Z axis, and massive 75mm wide belts on the y axis. The machine is super solid and seems to run quite well. I can currently jog it with the old controller, bit need to upgrade the machine with a new controller, power supply and drivers in order to be able to interface.

    I was wondering if anyone could weigh in on a recommended stepper voltage that would work with my current stepper motors (pictured below). And also whether the drivers linked below will be suitable.

    On the machine I just built I went with a 1000w 70v Antek power supply and these dm860t drivers;

    https://www.amazon.com/STEPPERONLINE...x=dm860&sr=8-1

    With these leadshine d57cm31 steppers;
    Object reference not set to an instance of an object.

    That machine is running great and I really appreciate all of the help everyone here gave me in selecting those.

    I would like to use the existing Eastern Air Devices steppers for now if possible (and the Vexta pictured in the z axis). I would like to assume they are a quality stepper, though I can't seem to find much info on them.

    The current controller seems to supply 60v

    This is a very heavy gantry, so I would like to maintain as much power as possible. I would also like the ability to upgrade the steppers in the future if necessary, so some headroom on the drivers and voltage supply would be great.

    Thank you in advance for any suggestions!

  2. #2

    Join Date
    Jan 2020
    Posts
    29

    Re: Power supply and driver suggestions requested

    A couple pictures of the machine for reference
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails IMG_20200516_212747_02.jpg   IMG_20200515_234625377.jpg   IMG_20200515_234637491.jpg  

  3. #3
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    100

    Re: Power supply and driver suggestions requested

    Hello.

    The drivers you selected are about the same model I used in a chain quilting machine driving two NEMA-34 1600 oz-in.

    Considering the fact that one of the motors moves about 700 kgms I´d say you are in the safe side with them. That motor drives a 10/1 ballscrew which in turn moves the carriage of the machine. For the rollers of the machine the same motor size was selected. Again a small 10/1 gear & wormwheel set are used. The link shows that machine.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ErNjNtC60As

    An interesting fact is that as the PMPS failed I replaced it with two power supplies made out each of one 24V/5A transformer, two 6A2 rectifier diodes and four 15,000uF/50V electrolytic capacitors for a combined capacity of 15,000uF/100V all wired as a voltage doubler for an actual output of about 45V

    The machine has been working that way for nearly a year with no further problems and the quality of the product remains good.

    I think this experience might help you make your mind.

    Best regards.

    PS. Since the direction reversal is sudden, I suspect the PMPS failed due to the regenerative currents.

  4. #4
    Community Moderator ger21's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    34988

    Re: Power supply and driver suggestions requested

    You do NOT want 1600 oz motors.
    I couldn't find the specs on the motors you have, but you'd probably want a 6a-7a motor in the 640-960 oz range.
    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)

  5. #5
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    100

    Re: Power supply and driver suggestions requested

    Hello.

    Did I miss something? I understood you already have the motors, don´t you?

    I must say that I do agree with ger21. Motors in the range of the ones I use are overrated for your needs. But given the ones you already have and unless you want to buy new ones the drivers you selected are fine. Unless the price difference to the next down model is significative I´d stick with them.

    Besides the extra available power might help in doing certain geometries that might require sudden direction changes.

    Your specs more or less match those of low range NEMA-34 4A motors. Check the specs of.model 86HS78-4004A14-B3500 with 495 oz-in torque.

    Best regards.

  6. #6

    Join Date
    Jan 2020
    Posts
    29

    Re: Power supply and driver suggestions requested

    Thanks for the replies guys. Gerry, I do plan on running the current steppers for now as I am undecided if I want to keep this machine or flip it. I agree there is definitely no need for a 1600oz stepper. I am just trying to nail down a supply voltage and drivers to run them. If the machine performs better than the one I just built I will keep it and upgrade the steppers at that point, hence the need to choose a power supply and drivers that can be scaled up. I can't seem to find any info on the steppers online but they are 8 wire and appear to be wired in bipolar parralel (though if someone could check the picture below that would be great)
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails IMG_20200521_204049103_MP.jpg  

  7. #7
    Registered
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    901

    Re: Power supply and driver suggestions requested

    Hi,
    your existing D57CM31's are great 23 size steppers with class leading inductance of only 1.1.8mH

    Quite frankly I think you've already got the best possible steppers you can. Run them at as higher voltage driver you can get, the practical
    maximum at this time is 80VDC, with a linear 80VDC power supply.

    If you want more performance than that get AC servos like Delta's or DMM's and be done with it.

    Craig

  8. #8

    Join Date
    Jan 2020
    Posts
    29

    Re: Power supply and driver suggestions requested

    Thanks Craig! The d57cm31's are on my DIY machine that I just finished building. I believe you had actually suggested I use them in a different thread back when I was putting it together and they are awesome. A 1000w 70v Antek power supply was also suggested, which is what I had used and the machine runs great.

    Problem is that the machine I am working on now has these mystery Eastern Air Devices 8 wire nema 34 steppers pictured above and I would like to determine the correct power supply needed to run them.

  9. #9
    Registered
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    901

    Re: Power supply and driver suggestions requested

    Hi,
    simple.....the higest voltage drives and power supply you can get your hands on.

    Why don't you try taking a drive and power supply off your new-build machine to power one of the mystery motors to see what happens?

    Craig

  10. #10
    Community Moderator ger21's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    34988

    Re: Power supply and driver suggestions requested

    Yeah, I'd just use the same thing you're already using. Or get better drives.
    I use AM882 drives, which I think are a notch above the DM860.
    Or get the EM806's, but they cost about double.
    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)

  11. #11

    Join Date
    Jan 2020
    Posts
    29

    Re: Power supply and driver suggestions requested

    Ok great. Going to go with a 70v power supply and either the dm860t or am882 drivers that Gerry suggested. Can't seem to bring myself to rip parts off of my last build to try on this one now that I have everything neatened up and fastened. Plus I don't even have a breakout board to test it with yet.

    Any suggestions on how to wire up these steppers? I can't find any wiring diagrams for them and they are 8 wire. Perform a resistance test to determine what pairs belong together? Keep them paired the way they are now? Then how do I know which pairs are step/dir/+/- ?

    You guys are always super helpful. Thanks for making CNC accessible to us hobbyists!

  12. #12
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    100

    Re: Power supply and driver suggestions requested

    Hello again.

    Having 8 wires out of your motor means that the four coils are wired independently. The trick now is to identify every pair and their polarities.

    While the appended diagram might help there is a procedure you can use to identify them.

    You can use an ohmmeter to identify the coils. Simply choose one wire and touch the others one by one. The one with a reading is the right one. I´m sure you know that.

    To identify the complementary coils an old trick prove useful. Your will need an old analog voltmeter or ammeter. While one with a centered zero is better any will do. Digital meters can be used but due to their sampling period the result might not be clear.

    Once you have the coil wires identified select two coils connecting the voltmeter or ammeter to one of them and give a small touch with a voltage source to the other. You can use the ohmmeter for this.

    Now watch for the deflection of the meter. Keeping the powered coil repeat the procedure on the other two coils. The largest deflection will identify the complementary coil to the one being excited.

    Remember that the deflection is momentaneous. That´s why a digital meter is not recommended for this procedure.

    The direction of the deflection will tell you the polarity of the coil. A negative deflection will tell you that the positive and negative sides of the coil match those of the meter.

    Finally repeat the procedure in the two other coils to identify their polarities.

    After that connect every pair joining together the positive terminal of one of the coils to the negative terminal of the other. The extremes are the wires to be connected to the driver.

    In any case I suggest you try the drive at low voltages first.

    To make an easy jig to try motors and amplifiers I use an NE555 based oscillator and a switch for the direction.

    In my systems I use the small card shown. It has no more than a ULN2803 and 5 3,900 ohm 1/2 Watt resistors. This card connects the LPT port of the control computer to the drivers. The 5V required are taken from the PC power supply.

    I don´t know if this card can serve as a breakout board for other systems than mine.

    I hope this helps.

    Regards.

  13. #13
    Community Moderator ger21's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    34988

    Re: Power supply and driver suggestions requested

    Then how do I know which pairs are step/dir/+/- ?
    None of them are.

    Step direction signals go to the drives. The drives send current through the motors coils, through the pairs of wires.
    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)

  14. #14

    Join Date
    Jan 2020
    Posts
    29

    Re: Power supply and driver suggestions requested

    Gerry, my bad, it was late! I meant the A+ A- B+ B- terminals on the drivers.

    BBMNet, Thank you for the info! I do have an analog meter around here somewhere and I will certainly give it a try. I came across that diagram while searching and actually saved it for future reference. It seems as though you are suggesting a bipolar series connection. Does this have any advantage over a parallel connection? Also, once I determine the complimentary coils, how do I determine the positive and negative sides of each coil in order to wire it properly (or does that matter?).

    Thanks for all the input guys!

  15. #15

    Join Date
    Jan 2020
    Posts
    29

    Re: Power supply and driver suggestions requested

    Sorry, just re-read this.
    Quote Originally Posted by BBMNet View Post

    The direction of the deflection will tell you the polarity of the coil. A negative deflection will tell you that the positive and negative sides of the coil match those of the meter.
    I am assuming that this is regardless of the polarity I use with the voltage source on the complimentary coil. If the deflection of the needle goes negative, the positive side of the coil will be the red (positve) meter lead and the negative side of the coil will be the black (negative) lead correct?

  16. #16
    Registered
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    901

    Re: Power supply and driver suggestions requested

    Hi,
    you definitely do not want to connect them in series.

    Inductance varies as the square of the turns. Thus when you connect two windings in series you are in effect doubling the number of turns but quadrupling the inductance.

    You need to connect them in parallel.

    BMMNet has proposed that you can identify the coil pairs by noting the mutual inductive coupling between them. For instance lets say you introduce a pulsed or otherwise varying current
    in one winding, its closely coupled winding, ie its partner will demonstrate a voltage response in unison with the current whereas the two windings of the other phase will show little or
    no mutual inductive coupling.

    The question about which end is which is called phasing. According to Lenz's Law 'if a current is applied to one coil the other coupled coil will generate a current to oppose the change'.
    If you use a battery or similar low power current source and supply a current in a coil. The positive side of that coil is the 'phase dotted' connection. If you have a voltmeter on the paired coil
    that terminal that is positive is also the 'phase dotted' connection.

    Craig

Similar Threads

  1. Stepper, Driver, Power Supply Selection Critique
    By mikeysp in forum Stepper Motors / Drives
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 12-26-2016, 01:49 AM
  2. Servo driver and power supply
    By bobecm in forum Servo Motors / Drives
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 04-04-2013, 09:10 PM
  3. driver power supply
    By derkiow in forum Stepper Motors / Drives
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 01-08-2011, 05:23 AM
  4. Some power supply and driver Questions
    By gone4pepsi in forum Benchtop Machines
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 03-22-2007, 04:48 AM
  5. Driver, PC LPT and power supply schematicas
    By msnarouz in forum Stepper Motors / Drives
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 07-30-2006, 03:11 AM

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •