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IndustryArena Forum > CNC Electronics > Spindles / VFD > Running a Yaskawa VariSpeed-626MT3 drive on single phase?
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  1. #1
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    Aug 2016
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    Running a Yaskawa VariSpeed-626MT3 drive on single phase?

    I'm looking at buying a Tree knee mill that has a VS-626MT3 spindle drive (CIMR-MTIII-3.7K) driving a 3.7kw UAASKA-04CA1 spindle motor. If possible I would like to avoid running the machine off of a phase converter, as the spindle is the only component requiring 3 phase power.

    I am wondering if it is possible to run the MT3 drive off single phase 220v? I don't believe so, as I think I would need a drive rated at 7.5-10hp for single phase, but I'm happy to be wrong on this one. I emailed Yaskawa, but the entirety of their response was "No, The MT3 requires 3 phase power".

    Assuming I can't run the MT3 on single phase, would anyone have recommendations for drives I could run on single phase for a 5hp spindle motor, that would have orient capability? A Hitachi SJ700 is one I've seen mentioned a few times, but I'm not sure about it's orient capability.

    Thank you

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
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    4282

    Re: Running a Yaskawa VariSpeed-626MT3 drive on single phase?

    Hi,
    about 2.2kW is about the practical maximum for single phase VFD's. Above that level all the manufacturers design and build them for three phase.
    Having said that the larger drives will work with single phase supply despite being designed for three phase. They need to be derated, I'm not sure what the formula
    is but its something like 1/3.

    Thus if you have a 3.7Kw spindle you'd probably need a 5kW inverter if using single phase supply.

    Craig

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
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    152

    Re: Running a Yaskawa VariSpeed-626MT3 drive on single phase?

    Hitachi has a single phase rating pdf for their new SJ P1 drives. I have one on my Tree Journeyman 425’s 5hp spindle. It has worked out well. Happy to share what I’ve learned.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
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    15362

    Re: Running a Yaskawa VariSpeed-626MT3 drive on single phase?

    Quote Originally Posted by footpetaljones View Post
    I'm looking at buying a Tree knee mill that has a VS-626MT3 spindle drive (CIMR-MTIII-3.7K) driving a 3.7kw UAASKA-04CA1 spindle motor. If possible I would like to avoid running the machine off of a phase converter, as the spindle is the only component requiring 3 phase power.

    I am wondering if it is possible to run the MT3 drive off single phase 220v? I don't believe so, as I think I would need a drive rated at 7.5-10hp for single phase, but I'm happy to be wrong on this one. I emailed Yaskawa, but the entirety of their response was "No, The MT3 requires 3 phase power".

    Assuming I can't run the MT3 on single phase, would anyone have recommendations for drives I could run on single phase for a 5hp spindle motor, that would have orient capability? A Hitachi SJ700 is one I've seen mentioned a few times, but I'm not sure about it's orient capability.

    Thank you
    No Problem you can run it on single Phase I guess you are in the USA so that would be 240v you would be using you may get a phase loss fault but there is a way around that

    You will need twice the input amps so what ever the motor max amps are double plus the safety factor

    So to round it out you will need a 50A 240v supply
    Mactec54

  5. #5
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    Feb 2012
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    26

    Re: Running a Yaskawa VariSpeed-626MT3 drive on single phase?

    Quote Originally Posted by mactec54 View Post
    No Problem you can run it on single Phase I guess you are in the USA so that would be 240v you would be using you may get a phase loss fault but there is a way around that

    You will need twice the input amps so what ever the motor max amps are double plus the safety factor

    So to round it out you will need a 50A 240v supply
    I am planning to set up a TREE 425 mill with the Yaskawa VS 626 MT III drive in my garage, I would love to get details on how to do this! I do have a 50 amp 220V USA type circuit available. Thanks in advance!

  6. #6
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    Jan 2005
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    Re: Running a Yaskawa VariSpeed-626MT3 drive on single phase?

    Quote Originally Posted by jdrimm View Post
    I am planning to set up a TREE 425 mill with the Yaskawa VS 626 MT III drive in my garage, I would love to get details on how to do this! I do have a 50 amp 220V USA type circuit available. Thanks in advance!
    Do you have a wiring diagram of your cabinet, this is not to hard to do.
    Mactec54

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
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    24216

    Re: Running a Yaskawa VariSpeed-626MT3 drive on single phase?

    Quote Originally Posted by jdrimm View Post
    ! I do have a 50 amp 220V USA type circuit available. Thanks in advance!
    BTW If in the US (N.A.) it has gone to 120v/240v gradually over the years, with 1969 being changed officially all over N.A.
    CNC, Mechatronics Integration and Custom Machine Design

    “Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere.”
    Albert E.

  8. #8
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    Feb 2012
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    26

    Re: Running a Yaskawa VariSpeed-626MT3 drive on single phase?

    Quote Originally Posted by mactec54 View Post
    Do you have a wiring diagram of your cabinet, this is not to hard to do.
    I do have the diagram, actually most of the documentation. Do you need me to post it here?

  9. #9
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    Re: Running a Yaskawa VariSpeed-626MT3 drive on single phase?

    Quote Originally Posted by Al_The_Man View Post
    BTW If in the US (N.A.) it has gone to 120v/240v gradually over the years, with 1969 being changed officially all over N.A.
    Yeah, I actually realize this (I didn't know the date!) , but you still hear a lot of people refer to it as 110V 220V!

  10. #10
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    Re: Running a Yaskawa VariSpeed-626MT3 drive on single phase?

    Quote Originally Posted by jdrimm View Post
    Yeah, I actually realize this (I didn't know the date!) , but you still hear a lot of people refer to it as 110V 220V!
    It's mostly only the Chinese stuff or imports that come to NA that is listed as 110v / 220v NA is 120v / 240v for single phase, it was actually changed in 1967 to 120v /240v, so it's been 56 years from when it was changed, and a lot of people still get this wrong.
    Mactec54

  11. #11
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    Re: Running a Yaskawa VariSpeed-626MT3 drive on single phase?

    Quote Originally Posted by jdrimm View Post
    I do have the diagram, actually most of the documentation. Do you need me to post it here?
    Yes, if you can do a PDF would be good, so I can se L1 L2 L3 connections and how the rest of the machine is connected, are there any transformers if so, are they single phase or 3 phase input
    Mactec54

  12. #12
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    Feb 2012
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    26

    Re: Running a Yaskawa VariSpeed-626MT3 drive on single phase?

    Quote Originally Posted by mactec54 View Post
    Yes, if you can do a PDF would be good, so I can se L1 L2 L3 connections and how the rest of the machine is connected, are there any transformers if so, are they single phase or 3 phase input
    I'll post a few PDF's in a few minutes. The spindle drive is on one sheet, and there are two more that have power distribution info. I can tell that the servo drives and control are run from 240V, the only other part running from 3 phase is the coolant pump. I am pretty sure I can just rewire the coolant to run an external 120V pump, and am OK if I have to just manually switch coolant.

  13. #13
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    Re: Running a Yaskawa VariSpeed-626MT3 drive on single phase?

    I attached pdfs of the three sheets I think are relevant. The one with the coolant pump also shows a power knee option, which I do not have. To my untrained eye, it looks like all three lines are used by different parts, but I should be able to move the 24V transformer to lines 21 and 22, leaving line 23 not used outside the spindle drive. No idea what I need to do at the spindle drive, or how to avoid an error related to only having two lines!

  14. #14
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    Re: Running a Yaskawa VariSpeed-626MT3 drive on single phase?

    Quote Originally Posted by jdrimm View Post
    I attached pdfs of the three sheets I think are relevant. The one with the coolant pump also shows a power knee option, which I do not have. To my untrained eye, it looks like all three lines are used by different parts, but I should be able to move the 24V transformer to lines 21 and 22, leaving line 23 not used outside the spindle drive. No idea what I need to do at the spindle drive, or how to avoid an error related to only having two lines!
    Yes, it seems you have it figured out mostly, the Knee motor is 3Ph and the coolant pump so if this can't be run on the 240v single phase then you would have to either change the coolant pump or get a small VFD Drive to run each of those motors.

    The Spindle Drive what is the Hp of the spindle motor as you will need a good 240v supply to run the whole machine on single phase. so, if you have the name plate Amp requirement than double that, this will get you close to what the single-phase supply will have to be.

    The connection for this Spindle Drive is to connect R & S to the L1 and L2 main 240v supply then Jumper T to R this will get your spindle going without have a missing phase fault problem.
    Mactec54

  15. #15
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    Re: Running a Yaskawa VariSpeed-626MT3 drive on single phase?

    Quote Originally Posted by mactec54 View Post
    Yes, it seems you have it figured out mostly, the Knee motor is 3Ph and the coolant pump so if this can't be run on the 240v single phase then you would have to either change the coolant pump or get a small VFD Drive to run each of those motors.

    The Spindle Drive what is the Hp of the spindle motor as you will need a good 240v supply to run the whole machine on single phase. so, if you have the name plate Amp requirement than double that, this will get you close to what the single-phase supply will have to be.

    The connection for this Spindle Drive is to connect R & S to the L1 and L2 main 240v supply then Jumper T to R this will get your spindle going without have a missing phase fault problem.
    The spindle motor is 5HP, the dataplate max current for the machine is 25 amps. I have a 50 amp 240V circuit to put it on, so that should be good. I would have never thought to jumper two phase inputs to avoid the error, I figured it had to be one or more parameters, thanks! I'll post a pic here of it running, probably next weekend. I really appreciate the guidance!

  16. #16
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    Re: Running a Yaskawa VariSpeed-626MT3 drive on single phase?

    Quote Originally Posted by jdrimm View Post
    The spindle motor is 5HP, the dataplate max current for the machine is 25 amps. I have a 50 amp 240V circuit to put it on, so that should be good. I would have never thought to jumper two phase inputs to avoid the error, I figured it had to be one or more parameters, thanks! I'll post a pic here of it running, probably next weekend. I really appreciate the guidance!
    No, there are no Parameters in any VFD Drive or servo drive to overcome a lost Phase error, this is tricking it to think there is a phase present! warning for others this does not work on all Drive types some need a different approach to make them work.
    Mactec54

  17. #17
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    Re: Running a Yaskawa VariSpeed-626MT3 drive on single phase?

    Quote Originally Posted by mactec54 View Post
    No, there are no Parameters in any VFD Drive or servo drive to overcome a lost Phase error, this is tricking it to think there is a phase present! warning for others this does not work on all Drive types some need a different approach to make them work.
    I've made many a mistake setting parameters in servo drives, even when all I had to do was set them to match a list, so I am glad for that!

  18. #18
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    Re: Running a Yaskawa VariSpeed-626MT3 drive on single phase?

    Quote Originally Posted by jdrimm View Post
    I've made many a mistake setting parameters in servo drives, even when all I had to do was set them to match a list, so I am glad for that!
    I should have said also to check the motor on the Knee as if it is a DC motor it can't be run with a VFD Drive, this may be your only problem area, can this be used with a hand crank as well?
    Mactec54

  19. #19
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    Re: Running a Yaskawa VariSpeed-626MT3 drive on single phase?

    Quote Originally Posted by mactec54 View Post
    I should have said also to check the motor on the Knee as if it is a DC motor it can't be run with a VFD Drive, this may be your only problem area, can this be used with a hand crank as well?
    It won't be an issue, as my mill doesn't have the power knee option. I did get the handcrank handle with it, so I'm good to go! Thanks!

  20. #20
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    Re: Running a Yaskawa VariSpeed-626MT3 drive on single phase?

    Well, life got in the way, but I finally got the mill in position and made the wiring changes as directed. BUT, I get a -UU error, which the manual says is undervoltage. I put a meter between the R and S terminals and I see 248V. I also get 248V between the S and T terminals. Of course, since the R and T are shorted together, I don't see any voltage between them. Any ideas? TIA!

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