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IndustryArena Forum > CNC Electronics > Spindles / VFD > Need help! Speed control of spindle/ vfd through USB breakout board and Mach3
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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
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    31

    Re: Need help! Speed control of spindle/ vfd through USB breakout board and Mach3

    Here are some observations I have:

    1) If I set the knob to the lowest setting which is 120Hz, then switch on the spindle, it will spin up to 120Hz. If I then increase the frequency up towards 400Hz, the speed of the spindle will increase. However I don't think it actually reaches 400Hz. I am also unable to reduce the speed of the spindle even if the panel shows that the frequency is at 120Hz after that initial increase.
    2) If I set the knob to the highest setting which is 400Hz, then switch on the spindle, it will spin up to 400Hz. However the speed of the spindle will not reduce even if I reduce the frequency.

    Hope the above observations help.

    Regards,
    Sean

    Quote Originally Posted by buffedupboy View Post
    Thank you again for the help. Here are the observations:

    1) Setting P00=01 or 02 has not changed anything. The pot still is able to change the frequency display although the speed of the spindle will not change.
    2) Setting P00=0 pushes the frequency to 400Hz and pot does not work.

    I must also add that I don't think it is due to the P00 setting because I have finally managed to connect mach3 to the machine and when I use Mach3 to switch on the spindle I have the same issue. The spindle will spin, the panel will show a corresponding frequency to mach3 but the speed will not change.

    Regards

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Posts
    31

    Re: Need help! Speed control of spindle/ vfd through USB breakout board and Mach3

    I reset to default again, and input the parameters again, however this time I input most of the frequency settings and monitored the changes. I then input the other additional parameters one at a time and found that P58- Over Voltage Stall Voltage was the value that was causing the issue. So instead of setting to 230, I changed it back to the default value of 370V.

    Everything was working fine when controlled from the panel. Lowest allowed setting frequency was 120Hz, maximum was 400Hz. Spindle spun well, was able to speed up and slow down corresponding to the input frequency.

    I then connected the board to the inverter and set the parameters for control of spindle by mach3. The spindle was able to be turned on. Speed was able to be controlled with mach3, HOWEVER once frequency was moved to above 270Hz, it cannot come back down below 270Hz. It can start below 270Hz. Another thing to note was that when spindle was switched off with mach3 it takes a much longer time to stop than if controlled by the panel. It was a very similar issue to before. One additional observation was that at 270-290Hz the spindle does not spin smoothly. Your thoughts?



    Quote Originally Posted by buffedupboy View Post
    Here are some observations I have:

    1) If I set the knob to the lowest setting which is 120Hz, then switch on the spindle, it will spin up to 120Hz. If I then increase the frequency up towards 400Hz, the speed of the spindle will increase. However I don't think it actually reaches 400Hz. I am also unable to reduce the speed of the spindle even if the panel shows that the frequency is at 120Hz after that initial increase.
    2) If I set the knob to the highest setting which is 400Hz, then switch on the spindle, it will spin up to 400Hz. However the speed of the spindle will not reduce even if I reduce the frequency.

    Hope the above observations help.

    Regards,
    Sean

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    15362

    Re: Need help! Speed control of spindle/ vfd through USB breakout board and Mach3

    Quote Originally Posted by buffedupboy View Post
    I reset to default again, and input the parameters again, however this time I input most of the frequency settings and monitored the changes. I then input the other additional parameters one at a time and found that P58- Over Voltage Stall Voltage was the value that was causing the issue. So instead of setting to 230, I changed it back to the default value of 370V.

    Everything was working fine when controlled from the panel. Lowest allowed setting frequency was 120Hz, maximum was 400Hz. Spindle spun well, was able to speed up and slow down corresponding to the input frequency.

    I then connected the board to the inverter and set the parameters for control of spindle by mach3. The spindle was able to be turned on. Speed was able to be controlled with mach3, HOWEVER once frequency was moved to above 270Hz, it cannot come back down below 270Hz. It can start below 270Hz. Another thing to note was that when spindle was switched off with mach3 it takes a much longer time to stop than if controlled by the panel. It was a very similar issue to before. One additional observation was that at 270-290Hz the spindle does not spin smoothly. Your thoughts?
    The up down RPM problem it seems your VFD is bad at that Frequency with your spindle you can lower the Carrier Frequency and see if that will help P21=8

    Interesting P58 that must be DC Bus Voltage 370 is what that would be roughly

    Check Mach3 Ports and Pins / Spindle and there are spin up and spin Down delay settings they would need to be changed as they default to 1 sec normally
    Mactec54

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Posts
    31

    Re: Need help! Speed control of spindle/ vfd through USB breakout board and Mach3

    Sorry for not being clear. The up/ down rpm problem only occurs when the spindle is controlled by mach3. Even if I change the delay settings, that will not explain why the frequency will not go below 270Hz? Or am I missing something?

    Quote Originally Posted by mactec54 View Post
    The up down RPM problem it seems your VFD is bad at that Frequency with your spindle you can lower the Carrier Frequency and see if that will help P21=8

    Interesting P58 that must be DC Bus Voltage 370 is what that would be roughly

    Check Mach3 Ports and Pins / Spindle and there are spin up and spin Down delay settings they would need to be changed as they default to 1 sec normally

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    15362

    Re: Need help! Speed control of spindle/ vfd through USB breakout board and Mach3

    Quote Originally Posted by buffedupboy View Post
    Sorry for not being clear. The up/ down rpm problem only occurs when the spindle is controlled by mach3. Even if I change the delay settings, that will not explain why the frequency will not go below 270Hz? Or am I missing something?
    It sounds like it could be then to do with the Frequency setting in Mach3 what do you have that set at
    Mactec54

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    35538

    Re: Need help! Speed control of spindle/ vfd through USB breakout board and Mach3

    Sorry for not being clear. The up/ down rpm problem only occurs when the spindle is controlled by mach3. Even if I change the delay settings, that will not explain why the frequency will not go below 270Hz? Or am I missing something?
    What are your Mach3 spindle settings? Pulley settings?
    Have you measured the analog voltage to see if it's correct?
    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Posts
    31

    Re: Need help! Speed control of spindle/ vfd through USB breakout board and Mach3

    First and most importantly I would like to say a great big thank you to mactec54. Without your guidance, help, patience and knowledge sharing I am sure there will be many more burnt/ fried spindles/ houses and divorces in the world. For that THANK YOU on behalf of the planet! Here is my contribution in the hope that anyone who has the same issues as me is able to get going and solving your issues. Here are a few things I learnt through my struggles being non electrically inclined, having zero knowledge and experience of machines and circuits.

    1) No one can help you 100% of the way, because every circumstance, part selection is different. People like mactec54 are kind enough to point you in the right direction but ultimately no one can hand you the solution on a platter, so read and equip yourself with as much knowledge as possible
    2) If you bought the same BOB (breakout board) https://buildyourcnc.com/item/electr...ach3-USB-Board as me because it was the cheapest thing you could find, then read on.
    3) The documentation is a good place to start, but the wiring diagram and explaination of how to connect your spindle to the board is rudimentary at best.
    4) It requires a 10V input to power the 'analog' output circuit. This is not shown anywhere in the circuit diagram. In fact you can connect up to a 12V input which I took from my inverter. If your inverter does not have such an output then you'll need to find another way to power it. Without the 10V input, you will not be able to control speed as it relies on a signal from the avi+/- output terminal
    5) It also requires a 24V input to power the 'digital' output circuits. Without this power, you will not be able to provide any digital signals out from your board, hence you can't send on/ off signals to the inverter (via a relay).
    6) Unlike the huangyang VFDs that most people buy and are referenced in numerous online literature, my VDF required a separate on/ off signal from the board as well as a direction signal. This was the part that stumped me the longest. The VFD receives a signal telling it which direction you want it to spin, but it also required a signal to tell it to start spinning (on/ run) which are wired separately. Both signals need to be given otherwise it won't run.
    7) Just because literature tells you that your components can do certain things, it does not mean that function is compatible with your other components. For example, my BOB literature says that there are two ways to control the spindle, 'Relay' or 'PWM'. I took this to mean that I could use either methods. However I now know, that just means the board is capable of both methods. However my spindle is only able to be controled via a relay and 'analog' signals. In fact, I later realised that the switching on/ off has to be done with a relay and it is the 'speed' control that is done either via PWM or 'Analog' signals.
    8) Most lower cost VDFs are made and documented in chinese for the chinese market. What you read are either translated via google or by a non native speaking person. The components may be fine on themselves but the support and literature will be confusing and sometimes downright wrong. If you are not up to the task of trying to work it out, then I do suggest going with safer and more expensive options. I purchased my inverter for around USD90. Compared to the Huangyang VFD, the price difference is big. However in hindsight is the trouble worth it? Maybe it is for me because I am just starting out and I had time to figure it out, but it may not be for you.

    Hope this helps, if I can help anyone with the same predicament as me I am available.

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Posts
    31

    Re: Need help! Speed control of spindle/ vfd through USB breakout board and Mach3

    This is beyond frustrating....

    So since the last time I posted here is what happened. Everything was working fine, the computer was controlling the spindle, switching it on/ off and speed. So i decided to tidy up the wiring and close the case. After which, I tried to switch the spindle on. It came on but the speed couldn't be controlled. I checked and realised that there was no voltage coming from the AVI/ ACM pins. So I thought one possiblity could be that I somehow fried the board? So I ordered a new board. It finally arrived today, swapped everything over including a new cable. Same problem.

    I checked the 10V input and there is indeed current being supplied to the board. But again no current is coming out of the AVI/ ACM pins. All advise/ help is needed and appreciated. Other observations are such:

    1) When I set the minimum PWM at 100%, it will spin at 400hz.
    2) If I set minimum PWM at 0%, then no matter what I do it will be at a minimum freq which was set at 120Hz.
    3) When minimum PWM is set, the corresponding voltage can be observed at AVI/ACM!

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Posts
    31

    Re: Need help! Speed control of spindle/ vfd through USB breakout board and Mach3

    Ok..... a level of self imposed stupidity has just been realised. All is well now.

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