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IndustryArena Forum > CNC Electronics > Servo Motors / Drives > Mitsubishi Servos. repurposing an automated gluing machine to cnc router.
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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    58

    Mitsubishi Servos. repurposing an automated gluing machine to cnc router.

    Hello all. My experience is mostly with hobby grade stuff. Mach3, G540, UCNC, 3D printer board, Steppers, etc.

    I have inherited a custom glue application machine that I wanted to repurpose as a router. It is driven by a mitsubishi servo system that I would like to get to talk to cnc control hardware and software I am familiar with and already in my workflow. Basically if I could figure out how to input step and direction signals to this thing then I think I can get started. Maybe that is not possible.

    Below is what I am working with.

    HG-KN73JK Servos x4
    MR-JF-70BF Servo Amplifier x4
    FX5U-32M Controller?
    FX5-40SSC-S Controller?
    GS2107-WTBD Touchscreen terminal

    I read through the manuals I could find and all this stuff is really over my head. I would like to know if I can work with these parts or if I am better off trying to sell them and put in it place some familiar hardware. My guess is that this stuff is way overkill for my application. But it's what I have.

    Attachment 444146

    Attachment 444144

    I appreciate any input.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    790

    Re: Mitsubishi Servos. repurposing an automated gluing machine to cnc router.

    I'm having a similar issue.

    Please check out my thread here:

    https://www.cnczone.com/forums/servo...-software.html

    Are these AC servos, DC servos? What voltage? Who is the manufacturer? Is this all Mitubishi stuff? If you can find a manual for the amplifier, it should tell you right away. Perhaps post some close up pics of the inputs/outputs of the amplifiers?

    I was thinking of using the Leadshine ACS806, which is an AC servo driver, but has a max input of 80VDC, which I assume translates into about 80 VAC after the driver. I have the servos but not the drivers.

    One thing I need to figure out for my servos is the Kv rating so I can figure out what effect there will be driving them at a lower voltage. I have Tamagawa Seiki, TBL-S, TS4073N9E31, 300W, 200V, 2006, AC. Unfortunately that's a legacy series of servo and I can't seem to find a manual.

    What kind of power input does your glue machine have and will you need to change it?

    I wonder if there is any kind of post processor that would make G-Code work for you with this set up as is?

    Is there any spot to plug in a USB or SD card? Load in some generic G-Code and see what happens?

    The FX5U is a Compact PLC....yes there is an SD card slot.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBiEBnsjCws

    So it looks like the FX5U is part of the iQ-F series from Mitsubishi?

    Yeah, that's definitely ladder logic, not G-Code being programmed on this one:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgLzVTWGXhQ

    Here's a Siemens PLC that can run G-Code using MachMotion

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Odxrbae-AKs

    If you go to this page you can see that running G-code is possible on Mitsubishi PLC's

    https://www.mitsubishielectric.com/f...ode/index.html

    but I'm not sure if it is only for the IQ-R series or all of them?

    At the end of the day, a PLC is a computer. There should be some way to make it run G-Code?

    Alternatively, you might be able to find a Mitsubishi IQ-R on EBay that simply plugs in and runs g-code, so no step/dir inputs needed.

    Yeah, I wish I had more experience with this stuff too.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    790

    Re: Mitsubishi Servos. repurposing an automated gluing machine to cnc router.

    I've been looking at this a bit more, also I searched the forums.

    You might want to check out Codesys and Kingstar.

    Codesys has it's own forums, you might want to ask the question there, to see if this is compatible with your PLC.

    https://forge.codesys.com/forge/talk/Motion/

    https://www.codesys.com/products/cod...-robotics.html

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3A5EhN1FeY

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBY0dBfKuh8

    Kingstar (software solution), looks to me like this would replace your PLC alltogether? Ethernet connection to PC. Pull the ethernet cable that comes from the PLC and plug an ethernet cable from your PC to that spot instead?

    https://kingstar.com/products/soft-motion/

    See the video below, is kingstar compatible with Mach 4?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3uQqXa9SDQ

    A video (below) from the kingstar website:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RtGo...007&height=755

    The more I look at this.....there is an easy way to reuse at least most of these components, even without step/dir inputs to the servo amplifiers. I don't understand it all, but it's in there somewhere.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    58

    Re: Mitsubishi Servos. repurposing an automated gluing machine to cnc router.

    Quote Originally Posted by NIC 77 View Post
    I've been looking at this a bit more, also I searched the forums.

    You might want to check out Codesys and Kingstar.

    Codesys has it's own forums, you might want to ask the question there, to see if this is compatible with your PLC.

    https://forge.codesys.com/forge/talk/Motion/

    https://www.codesys.com/products/cod...-robotics.html

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3A5EhN1FeY

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBY0dBfKuh8

    Kingstar (software solution), looks to me like this would replace your PLC alltogether? Ethernet connection to PC. Pull the ethernet cable that comes from the PLC and plug an ethernet cable from your PC to that spot instead?

    https://kingstar.com/products/soft-motion/

    See the video below, is kingstar compatible with Mach 4?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3uQqXa9SDQ

    A video (below) from the kingstar website:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RtGo...007&height=755

    The more I look at this.....there is an easy way to reuse at least most of these components, even without step/dir inputs to the servo amplifiers. I don't understand it all, but it's in there somewhere.
    Wow thanks for the leads.

    Nice thing is that I know the combination of hardware I have works well and the machine moves crazy fast. It just not not take G-code at the moment.

    I did find someone who makes custom cards that work with linux cnc and output SSCNET which is what these servo drives apparently speak. But he does not have one that works with the current version of SSCNET just yet.

    https://www.youtube.com/user/m3rkwurdigliebe/videos

    The Mitsubishi Gcode module you sent is like $3 - $6K on ebay! I'm sure it works really well though.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    4282

    Re: Mitsubishi Servos. repurposing an automated gluing machine to cnc router.

    Hi,
    often servo drives have in addition to the bus input the ability to do step/direction or even analogue.

    Do your servo drives have that capability? If so there are quite a few CNC software solutions that read Gcode as input and plan the tool trajectory
    which is in turn consumed by a motion controller and thence to the step/direction drives.

    A PC, a CNC software solution and a motion controller would be much less than 3-6k.

    Craig

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
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    58

    Re: Mitsubishi Servos. repurposing an automated gluing machine to cnc router.

    No step or dir that I could find.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    3891

    Re: Mitsubishi Servos. repurposing an automated gluing machine to cnc router.

    MR-JE-70BF btw, not JF. (just for people trying to look it up.

    Serial drive. You'll need to replace the drives if you want any basic control to run it (mach, Linux, etc). Of course, its Mitsubishi, so you can probably buy 3 new delta motor and drive kits for the cost of one new Mitsubishi drive.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    58

    Re: Mitsubishi Servos. repurposing an automated gluing machine to cnc router.

    Quote Originally Posted by ihavenofish View Post
    MR-JE-70BF btw, not JF. (just for people trying to look it up.

    Serial drive. You'll need to replace the drives if you want any basic control to run it (mach, Linux, etc). Of course, its Mitsubishi, so you can probably buy 3 new delta motor and drive kits for the cost of one new Mitsubishi drive.
    Thank for the correction on the model number. Yes this is what I am finding regarding the Mitsubishi ecosystem being very pricey.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
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    3891

    Re: Mitsubishi Servos. repurposing an automated gluing machine to cnc router.

    The upside to that is you can sell the ones you have for good money though.

    The wago IO block gave me a thought though. Wago or beckhoff may have interface converters to ethercat, which may allow you to use the drives transparently with some more accessible controls. I guess its sorta going to be weather you want a "project" to reuse as much as you can, or you just want that frame to move and cut things.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    58

    Re: Mitsubishi Servos. repurposing an automated gluing machine to cnc router.

    Might have found a way.... The machine did come wired with this component.

    Attachment 444248

    It's mentioned in the manual that it can accept external inputs from a pulse generator. Though I am not clear on how this is wired to the 4 individual axis. The pinout only shows 3 pairs or pins. Though I am sure I am missing something.

    Attachment 444250

    http://www.allied-automation.com/wp-...SC_startup.pdf

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    3891

    Re: Mitsubishi Servos. repurposing an automated gluing machine to cnc router.

    that's for an mpg input into the existing control. Not super helpful to you (unless you can figure out how to re-use that control)

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    3891

    Re: Mitsubishi Servos. repurposing an automated gluing machine to cnc router.

    linux cnc thread on using Mitsubishi sscnet drives. seems maybe there are ways...

    https://forum.linuxcnc.org/9-install...scnet?start=10

    Are they wroth the trouble, that is the question.

  13. #13
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    Aug 2005
    Posts
    58

    Re: Mitsubishi Servos. repurposing an automated gluing machine to cnc router.

    Quote Originally Posted by ihavenofish View Post
    linux cnc thread on using Mitsubishi sscnet drives. seems maybe there are ways...

    https://forum.linuxcnc.org/9-install...scnet?start=10

    Are they wroth the trouble, that is the question.
    Yup, I spoke with the gent selling linux cnc > sscnet cards. He's still working on once compatible with the latest version.

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