[Formantjim]

Have a Tree 325 and reading the label printed on the side of the Baldor servo it states 100V DC and Peak current 12 Amps does anyone know the continuous power draw for these servo motors?

The label also has a torque value of 500oz per inch again is this continuous or peak? The reason for asking is we are going to be replacing the servo motors for Clearpaths together with UCCNC controller and need to know these values to choose the right servo..

[joeavaerage]

Hi,
can't really tell, but the continuous power output is typically 1/3 of the peak output.

The peak power output is 100 x 12 =1200W, and you would guess the continuous power would be 400W. Is there ANY other data on the nameplate? Something like the Voltage constant or the
Current constant, even rated speed?

Lets assume the 500oz.in is rated torque.

500oz.in=2.6ft.lb
2.6ft.lb=3.7Nm

That would suggest if the rated power is 400W (guess) and the rated torque is 3.7Nm then the rated speed is:

Rated speed (rad/sec) =400/3.7
=109.2 rad/sec = 1042 rpm.

Does that sound about right? Is there any data that might prove/disprove this guess?

I use 750W Delta B2 series servos. They have a rated speed of 3000rpm at 2.4Nm. They have a peak power demand of 2.25kW and a peak torque of 7.1Nm.
I par $438USD plus shipping for them. Bang for your buck they handily out perform Clearpath.

Craig

[Formantjim]

Many thanks for the fast response. I maybe should have explained a little more of the project and my thinking. This machine has sat for many years but was fully functional when purchased but we'd like to get it operational again.
My intent is to rather try to fault find the driver boards and then replace all the capacitors throughout is to start with modern up to date servos that just need a power supply. I have personally built a CNC machine 6 years ago using the Clearpaths and could not be happier with their performance. Instead of trying to learn conversational language of the Delta 20 controls this would be replaced with a touch screen PC that is networked running UCCNC that too has been extremely reliable and accurate. I know there is going to be a lot of people who are going to be upset with me for not refurbishing an old machine but quite frankly I do not have the time or the will to do it.
The cost of the 750W Delta B2 servos might seem attractive against the Clearpath but I don't need to purchase a driver for them. All I need to know is which Clearpath is best for the machine. I have been conversing with Teknic who have asked a lot of questions some I can answer some I cannot hence the call out to this wonderful forum.

[pippin88]

Modern servos are usually sold in a set with driver, servo motor, and cables.

The price quoted above is for a set with driver, servo motor, and cables.

[joeavaerage]

Hi,

The price I quoted is $438USD for the 750W servo, the servo driver and 3m cables, ie a kit. I've bought four this past year at that price. The shipping to New Zealand is $156USD for three day Fedex.
To date the record is two days, twenty hours and 45 minutes from Hong Kong to my doorstep. The longest was four days nine hours. Still, that nearly 10,000km!

I use Mach4 and an Ethernet SmoothStepper, which is very VERY similar to UCCNC and one of their motion boards, you do not need a Delta controller, they are Step/Direction just like Clearpath.
Unlike Clearpath you don't need a power supply either, the Delta's are direct connected to 230VAC. Additionally Delta have vastly better IO with eight digital inputs, 6 digital outputs, an auxiliary encoder
output and two analogue outputs, can be run in torque, velocity and position modes, and has twice the power for a a little less than the cost of a 400W Clearpath.

I know there is going to be a lot of people who are going to be upset with me for not refurbishing an old machine but quite frankly I do not have the time or the will to do it.

Well, I'm not one of them. The old Baldor DC servos are not just yesterdays news, they are last centuries news. If you are going to spend money then I too would go for the most surefire solution,
which includes a CNC software solution like UCCNC OR Mach4 OR LinuxCNC and Step/Direction servos like Delta OR DMM OR Clearpath.

Sell the old Baldors to someone whom wants them, there is a plonker born every minute!

Craig

[Formantjim]

Thanks was not aware of the Delta kit. It might be the best solution to date.
The issue I've got at the moment with the Clearpaths is the diameter of the shaft being 1/2" and the Baldor is a tapered keyed shaft 5/8" what is the shaft size of the Delta? It would be nice if it were a drop in replacement. I'm looking into trying to find the power drive pully to use with the Clearpaths and was hoping that anyone reading this thread would chime in with a solution. I'd seen other Tree retro fit threads but no one mentioned the power drive pulley fittings. If anyone out there knows or has done a Tree retrofit I'd love to know of a solution.
Yes I started with Mach 3 and the ESS but had a few hiccups so switched to UCCNC and its been great.

JIM

[joeavaerage]

Hi,
the 750W Delta B2's have an 80mm frame and a 19mm keyed shaft.
The 400W Delta B2's have a 60mm frame and a 14mm keyed shaft.

I would guess the Baldors are genuine NEMA 34's (86mm) or Nema23's (57mm). Thus the Deltas are close but not identical. In that regard I think Clearpath are still inch dimensioned??

Yes I started with Mach 3 and the ESS but had a few hiccups so switched to UCCNC and its been great.

I personally am of the opinion that Mach3 is obsolete, not withstanding that it still works and has a loyal fan base, but all development ceased on it eight years ago. Mach4 and UCCNC are very comparable.

Craig

[Teknic_Servo]

Hi Jim,

I’m an Applications Engineer at Teknic. I came across this thread and thought I may be able to add some additional information.

I’m glad you reached out to Teknic directly, and if you’re struggling to find some information requested by the applications engineer you’re working with, please let them know. There are often multiple ways to determine the right motor for an application even without complete information.

The issue I've got at the moment with the Clearpaths is the diameter of the shaft being 1/2" and the Baldor is a tapered keyed shaft 5/8" what is the shaft size of the Delta? It would be nice if it were a drop in replacement. I'm looking into trying to find the power drive pully to use with the Clearpaths and was hoping that anyone reading this thread would chime in with a solution. I'd seen other Tree retro fit threads but no one mentioned the power drive pulley fittings. If anyone out there knows or has done a Tree retrofit I'd love to know of a solution.

I recommend exploring the use of a bore reducer to go from a 1/2 inch shaft to a 5/8ths inch input diameter. Bore reducers are a common and cost-effective method of adapting mechanics to work with alternative shaft sizes, and are typically straightforward to source (here's an example: https://www.ondrivesus.com/bore-redu...ass-aluminum#1).

To address Craig’s point regarding frame dimensions: ClearPath motor frames adhere to the NEMA ISC-16 standard. In the standard, motors referred to by frame numbers have imperial dimensions (e.g. NEMA 23 (2.625in), NEMA 34 (3.875in), NEMA 56(5.875in)). If the current Baldor motor conforms to one of these standard NEMA frame sizes, then the replacement process should be relatively simple.

That said, many motor manufactures choose to deviate from the standard for a variety of reasons. For example, Teknic decided to use a larger diameter shaft for increased torsional stiffness and because the increased shaft size allows us to use over-sized bearings (which extend the life of the motors and provide better radial and axial loading).

If you have additional questions, please don’t hesitate to reach out via our website (https://teknic.com/contact/) or give us a call at 585-784-7454.

Bradley N. -Teknic OEM Applications Engineer

[Formantjim]

Thanks Bradley for the comments sorry been off the forum for a few days. Anyway have ordered a Clearpath from you guys awaiting delivery in the next day or so so I will be giving feedback on the install.
Finding a power drive pulley for the Clearpaths has been a bit of a challenge but we've managed to find a local supplier so fingers crossed!

Moving onto the next topic is that of the spindle motor and drive even though the machine was fully working machine we've taken the decision to replace the the VFD with a more modern one with hopefully Modbus communication like my huyang VFD.
The existing motor is a Yasakawa UAASKA-06CA1 3.7KW speed looks like 1500rpm and possibly goes upto 8000 rpm. The motor is fully functional so would like to drive it with a modern VFD if possible. I don't mind changing it out to another one of equivalent HP together with a new VFD. I'm looking for suggestions here. I know Huyang VFD's get a lot of negative comments but mine on my DIY CNC machine has been excellent 3.5 years and counting. If not Modbus compatible then a standard 0 to 10 volts output as it will be controlled via a UCCNC ETH 300.

[Formantjim]

Ok Ladies and Gentlemen thought I'd post a progress update on the Tree 325 retrofit.

So went ahead and ordered a CPMSDHP-3426F-ELS Clearpath servo from Teknic. After studying the old Baldor servo motor plate and reading between the lines came up with the servo chosen from the excellent data on the Teknic website.
Here is the Baldor servo with the power pully removed exposing a tapered keyed shaft and if you look up the spec for the Clearpath you will find it has a 1/5" straight keyed shaft. So with this big difference in shafts it means the power pulley will not fit the Clearpath.

So a new pulley was found locally that matched the diameter and teeth but the shaft was 5/16" and not keyed so this required some thinking about and so I set to and made a coupling piece shown below.

As you can see the second picture shows the coupling piece with some slight colour changes as this was a heat shrink fit onto the counter body of the pulley. It was then drilled and pinned for added security. Two 5mm allen grub screws were drilled and tapped into this coupling piece to attach to the Clearpath.
Here you can see the servo mounted to the Tree 325 I had machined a mounting flange to take the Clearpath and then to use the same mounting as that of the old Baldor. The belt was installed and tensioned as per the manual to 160Hz. Some people will obviously ask a frequency? Yes they specify in the Tree manual tensioning the belt so when plucked with the finger it generates 160Hz.

From the photo you can see the connections to the servo both power and control. First the servo needs to be tuned and for this one uses a magnetically coupled infrared usb adaptor unfortunately it was unclear that I needed the specific one as the company I work for does instrumentation and we use infrared adaptors to setup and calibrate flowmeters so I thought I did not need one. It turns out you need to order one of these they are only $15 but you cannot setup the servo without it. A quick call to Abe at Teknic pleading ignorance he kindly sent me one as an early Xmas present. A few days later and UPS delivered a care package, now that is what I call customer service!

For testing this servo fitted to the Tree I used the ESS controller and Mach 3 after having the Servo tuned with the excellent MSP software. Just for initial tests without the tune I managed to make the Servo move the X axis back and forwards but it would vibrate loudly and rumble absolutely horrendous. Connecting the magnetically coupled usb adaptor and running the tuning program resulted in a truly outstanding change. The servo moved the table back and forward smoothly fast and silent. All I can say is WOW!
The next step is to move the servo to the Y axis as this carries the X axis as well and again a different tune will be required for this. One really nice thing with the MSP software is to store the tune on your laptop and then one can transfer it to each of the drives. I will post an update of the Y axis tuning phase a well as a video of it in operation if I can figure out how to upload videos.

JIM

[RaderSidetrack]

Great to hear that the tuning software worked well!

I will post an update of the Y axis tuning phase a well as a video of it in operation if I can figure out how to upload videos.

The best way to make videos work here is to upload to your favorite video host, then post a link in your message here. This is a screenshot of the video button in the Compose Message window:

[Formantjim]

OK a quick update on the progress of the the Tree Retrofit.

This is a shot of the modified plate that used to have the position for the Z limit. What I've done here is lengthen the slots to accommodate the new 5 volt NPN proximity switches for both the upper and lower limit as well as a home position for the Z axis. It is a tight squeeze but all functional. The sensing bar is now mounted on the ballnut where the old single proximity switch was located.


This next picture shows the plate that will be mounted on the side of the panel that used to house just the old Yaskawa VFD. This plate has all the connections or will be shortly when all the connectors are wired up this too will be mounted on the side of the old VFD box. I'm trying to utilize as much of the old panels and fittings as I can to make it look authentic but modern.
This panel was made on my DIY machine and also engraved.

Now the next part of the retrofit is turning into a bit of a challenge and I'm hoping one of the many Tree Guru's out there can help. Below is the original circuit diagram that came with the machine which has enabled me to obtain a new VFD
.

Fortunately one of our customers locally is a Lenze dealer so we purchased the following ESV113N02TXB SMV SERIES SENSORLESS VECTOR 15HP / 240V, 3PH(i/p) / 42.0A(o/p) Cont. I have connected it up programmed it and the motor spins as it should and the spindle bearings appear to be running smooth and quiet.

Now to the next issue I'll call it opportunity as I'm a salesman after all trying to be a wannabe machinist. The Yaskawa VFD supported a resolver that is connected as you can see in the circuit diagram. with 0 to 5 volts connected to BLK and WHT. Then we have BLK and GRN going to PA and RA BLK and BLU going to PB and RB and finally BLK and RED going to PC and RC. So reading up on the Yaskawa Resolver has got me a little bit stumped.
So what I've done is apply 5 volts DC to the BLK and WHT this results in the following outputs on the PA,RA,PB,RB,PC and RC 5 volts swinging to -5volts. Looking on an oscilloscope these are indeed the sine and cosine outputs together with the index pulse for one complete resolution. I will be feeding each of these signals into 3 off 4N35 opto isolators with an LS7414 hex Schmitt trigger to derive the A and B pulses needed for UCCNC derive the spindle rotation but more importantly the index pulse so we can do rigid tapping. I have yet to test this but if anyone has a better idea I'm more than curious to hear. I've tested these signals from the resolver and they can indeed light a normal LED, so using opto isolators that are infrared will be easy and also have high gain transistor output.

I'll post shortly the results of the resolver connections.

[Formantjim]

OK as promised an update on using opto couplers with the Yaskawa Resolver. Below you can see the test setup my laptop connected via USB to the Arduino Mega and the circuitry needed for the reading of the pulses from the Resolver.


I'm not too good of a programmer but it would appear that the count is 300 pulses per revolution. When I come to have everything wired up and calibrating the machine the pulley ratio between the motor and the spindle will create a bit of a challenge just some ratio that will needed to be worked out but at least we have ticked off another part of the retrofit.
Next update will be the X and Y limits with homing.