[QuinnSjoblom]

Long story short, I need to run my mach3 mill turn machine with an rs485 plugin controlling the spindle. I'm looking to upgrade my Chinese 2.2kw spindle to an atc unit. I've already talked a bit about this on mach3 sub to see if the rs485 plugin will work with other vfd's, but no answer on that yet. The easiest solution would be to just keep running huanyang with my new atc spindle because the plugin for huanyang works well with my dual spindle mill turn setup.
When I contacted the seller of a couple atc spindles, a 2.2kw and a 3kw, I asked if it's ok to pair them with a huanyang (both spindles are 400hz) and the seller said "no you need better vfd, huanyang is cheap". Is there a specific reason why the huanyang won't run these spindles Well even though they seem to work fine with common 2.2kw non atc spindles? Or is the seller just saying that because they are relatively cheap compared to other vfd's?

[Jim Dawson]

That's an interesting response from the seller. I own 1 HY and it seems to work well on my air compressor running at 60Hz. I do use more expensive VFDs to run spindles so no experience with them in that application.

I think I would ask the seller what their recommendation is for a VFD. My suspicion is that the HY will work fine.

[QuinnSjoblom]

That's an interesting response from the seller. I own 1 HY and it seems to work well on my air compressor running at 60Hz. I do use more expensive VFDs to run spindles so no experience with them in that application.

I think I would ask the seller what their recommendation is for a VFD. My suspicion is that the HY will work fine.

Yeah, I've run my 2.2kw HY for hundreds of hours with my non atc spindle just fine. Not sure if maybe there was something different about these atc type spindles that makes them more sensitive to vfd quality. I asked the seller if there's a specific reason why I can't use the HY vfd and he said "because they are so bad" lol. I don't know, maybe the HY is fine. I don't mind spending more on a better vfd, I just don't know if I can get it to work with a plugin like my current setup.
I'm actually still on the fence about going servo driven bt30 or high speed atc spindle. Eventually I'll have one of each on 2 different machines optimized for different work, bu5 for now I need to pick one or the other. High speed atc will be cheaper and much less work to setup as well as faster in aluminum but overall much less versatile than the bt30 setup.

[mactec54]

Yeah, I've run my 2.2kw HY for hundreds of hours with my non atc spindle just fine. Not sure if maybe there was something different about these atc type spindles that makes them more sensitive to vfd quality. I asked the seller if there's a specific reason why I can't use the HY vfd and he said "because they are so bad" lol. I don't know, maybe the HY is fine. I don't mind spending more on a better vfd, I just don't know if I can get it to work with a plugin like my current setup.
I'm actually still on the fence about going servo driven bt30 or high speed atc spindle. Eventually I'll have one of each on 2 different machines optimized for different work, bu5 for now I need to pick one or the other. High speed atc will be cheaper and much less work to setup as well as faster in aluminum but overall much less versatile than the bt30 setup.

No the plugin for the HY won't work with other VFD Drives, if you are looking at a quality ATC spindle then a different VFD drive would be the normal thing to do, there is nothing wrong with the HY but they don't have a good vector drive and that is what you want for your ATC spindle so the difference is in the type of VFD Drive you should use

[QuinnSjoblom]

No the plugin for the HY won't work with other VFD Drives, if you are looking at a quality ATC spindle then a different VFD drive would be the normal thing to do, there is nothing wrong with the HY but they don't have a good vector drive and that is what you want for your ATC spindle so the difference is in the type of VFD Drive you should use

So what is the specific reason why I need a good vector drive to go with my atc spindle? Is there something physically different about the magnets and windings in an atc spindle vs a cheap Chinese non atc spindle that will cause it to not run well on a HY? Or is it just that it makes sense to spend more than a hundred bucks on a vfd if your spindle cost you 2 grand or more? Will the atc spindle run at least as well as my cheap non atc spindle did on the HY? Or will I actually have problems with running the atc on hy that I didn't have before? Like I mentioned, I have no problem spending more on a quality vector drive, it just might not be an option for my specific setup that needs to run the spindle on a plugin

[mactec54]

So what is the specific reason why I need a good vector drive to go with my atc spindle? Is there something physically different about the magnets and windings in an atc spindle vs a cheap Chinese non atc spindle that will cause it to not run well on a HY? Or is it just that it makes sense to spend more than a hundred bucks on a vfd if your spindle cost you 2 grand or more? Will the atc spindle run at least as well as my cheap non atc spindle did on the HY? Or will I actually have problems with running the atc on hy that I didn't have before? Like I mentioned, I have no problem spending more on a quality vector drive, it just might not be an option for my specific setup that needs to run the spindle on a plugin

If you get a good quality ATC spindle it will run better smoother and quieter with a quality Vector VFD drive, a quality VFD Drive even will make a difference to how a regular spindles will run as well

[Al_The_Man]

So what is the specific reason why I need a good vector drive to go with my atc spindle? Is there something physically different about the magnets and windings in an atc spindle vs a cheap Chinese non atc spindle that will cause it to not run well on a HY?

Technically there Is no such thing as a 'ATC' spindle, I have used regular motors with a ATC, but placing a VFD with encoder feedback for precise positioning, this is the way Mitsubishi does it.
I have also used Huanyang with a an old 4 pole motors on my pair of Excello's.
But it does pay to purchase a quality VFD, the Huanyang Modbus Mach plug-in is not standard modbus and will not work with other Modbus VFD's as already noted.
A while back I had quite a long discussion with Sebastien over the Huanyang version as I wrote one that used his plug in on a DC drive in order to control it the same way.
But for CNC work, you do need a Vector drive.
( ATC = Automatic Tool Changer?).
Al.
.

[Jim Dawson]

"because they are so bad" I love the highly technical analysis.

[ger21]

You can use an RS-485 with any VFD that uses Modbus. The Huanyang plugin will not work with other VFD's, but Mach3 supports Modbus, which most VFD's also do.
The only reason the Mach3 Huanyang plugin exists is because the Huanyang uses a non standard Modbus implementation. If it worked like all other VFD's, then everyone would have been controlling it with standard Modbus.

[QuinnSjoblom]

You can use an RS-485 with any VFD that uses Modbus. The Huanyang plugin will not work with other VFD's, but Mach3 supports Modbus, which most VFD's also do.
The only reason the Mach3 Huanyang plugin exists is because the Huanyang uses a non standard Modbus implementation. If it worked like all other VFD's, then everyone would have been controlling it with standard Modbus.

Thanks Gerry, I was hoping you would chime in on the mach3 side of this problem. I'm not familiar with modbus so I wasn't sure exactly what the situation was there with other vfds. That's good news that mach3 will control any vfd with modbus capability, but here's the question, will it behave the same way as my current setup does with the HY plugin? Currently I can configure mach3 to control a step/dir spindle (my servo driven turning spindle) and mach3 will still send commands through the plugin to control my HY plugin simultaneously. For example If I command an sxxx m3, it will send out step/dir pulses through the specified port/pin for spindle, AND it will send the same command to my vfd at the same time. With a regular modbus spindle setup (not HY plugin), will I be able to also configure mach3 as step/dir spindle and get the same behavior like before?

[mactec54]

Thanks Gerry, I was hoping you would chime in on the mach3 side of this problem. I'm not familiar with modbus so I wasn't sure exactly what the situation was there with other vfds. That's good news that mach3 will control any vfd with modbus capability, but here's the question, will it behave the same way as my current setup does with the HY plugin? Currently I can configure mach3 to control a step/dir spindle (my servo driven turning spindle) and mach3 will still send commands through the plugin to control my HY plugin simultaneously. For example If I command an sxxx m3, it will send out step/dir pulses through the specified port/pin for spindle, AND it will send the same command to my vfd at the same time. With a regular modbus spindle setup (not HY plugin), will I be able to also configure mach3 as step/dir spindle and get the same behavior like before?

Should be no different with or how you can use the control I thought you new all this about Modbus so did not mention it before

[QuinnSjoblom]

Should be no different with or how you can use the control I thought you new all this about Modbus so did not mention it before

No, I'm not experienced using modbus. Wasn't sure if a custom plugin needed to be written for each vfd but it sounds like no. Still im not sure if mach3 will behave the same way allowing me to run a step/dir spindle at the same time as controlling another vfd through modbus.

[mactec54]

No, I'm not experienced using modbus. Wasn't sure if a custom plugin needed to be written for each vfd but it sounds like no. Still im not sure if mach3 will behave the same way allowing me to run a step/dir spindle at the same time as controlling another vfd through modbus.

Your step/dir spindle control is working just like an axes would so that won't change, you don't need Modbus to turn a VFD Drive On / Off and control the speed in Mach3

[Al_The_Man]

If this is purely for a ATC function, it has often been done in the past by using a regular spindle controller, and when an angular position is required the VFD is turned off, and a spare axis servo or stepper motor is used to precisely position the spindle to the required angle.
Al..

[QuinnSjoblom]

If this is purely for a ATC function, it has often been done in the past by using a regular spindle controller, and when an angular position is required the VFD is turned off, and a spare axis servo or stepper motor is used to precisely position the spindle to the required angle.
Al..

Nope, this is a mill turn machine. It has a horizontal servo driven turning spindle that doubles as a 4th axis, and also a vertical milling spindle. I use both of these spindles within one gcode file so I can only use setting changes that are accessible within macros. Currently the switch happens in my m6. Tools 1 through 100 are tied to milling spindle, tools above 100 are for turning. This way the machine knows which spindle to activate just by looking at tool number.