[nlh]

I am new to Mazaks and wondering if I could get some words of advice on a problem. First of all, this machine is a friends and does not currently belong to me, but possibly may in the future pending the outcome of this problem.

The machine has an NC alarm 22, memory parity check. This comes on during power up and the machine goes into a condition whereby servo's can't be moved, no hydraulics, etc. Machine has sat for several months since last use(not sure exactly how many but problably no less than 4-5 months).

It has always had a problem when powering up. The screen will be blank for a varying amount of time, usually a half hour or more, before horizontal squiggly lines can be seen and shortly after that the display will come on. The alarm 22 is just recent however.

Is there any chance these problems are related? Could this be a battery issue which resulted in the loss of some parameters? My friend couldn't recall seeing any low battery light or alarm.

I opened the back of the machine and jotted down what lights where lit on the control boards. FX27 - BT = off, PR = on
FX15 - AL = off, IT = blinking, BA = blinking but dim (reflection?), RDY = on.

On the first door there are several relay boards that had LED's lit as well,
FIRST BOARD(TOP)
Bank TB501 - HLP = on, EMS = on, EMS2 = on
Bank TB502 - SZS = on

SECOND BOARD(MIDDLE)
Bank TB503 - MGTD = on, MAR = on, MAR2 = on
Bank TB504 - all = off

BOTTOM BOARD(03-81367-05)
Relay SSR04 = on

Also on the 3 servo drives there is a bar of LEDS at the top. Reading from left to right, all 3 boards had the third and fourth lit, Green and Red respectively.

Does anyone here have any idea what could be going on. This machine is usually not used much in the run of a year due to the fact that this shop prefers it's 50 taper machines over the Mazaks 40 taper tooling.

When trying to reach tech support should I try Mazak or Mitsubishi? Again I have had absolutely no prior experience with Mitsu/Mazak. I was given the maintenance manuals to look at but they are for the M1 control.

Thanks,
nlh

[gridley51]

I am currently installing a VQC 2040B with M2 control.This machine has several issues.I have repaired the spindle drive,cnc control faults and thought I only had lubrication problems to deal with until I got back to it today to find I have a board fault and the monitor is not coming up.Error 22 was one of the faults I had and was caused by a flat battery but can also be caused by missing parameters.Leave the machine powered up for a few hours to charge the batteries then switch of and reboot and check all ba/bat leds are out,if not it is missing parameters.I have a note of these but not to hand just now.
IT blinking and RDY on are good signs.
I started today to make up new batteries,the plan being to change these without losing all the parameters but didn`t get as far as investigating the alarm I now have.
It will be easier to look at all the leds you have on tomorrow when I`m at the machine.
I am using the M2 manual which I downloaded from MEAU`s site for reference,it is not the same as the Mazak manual for the control but near enough for what I need.I also have programming,maintenance,drive and electrical manuals for a VQC 3050 with pallet changer in pdf format,again they are not exactly correct for my machine but near enough.I am in about the twelth week of waiting for the proper electrical drawings to come from Mazak with the promise that I should see them in about four weeks time.I am still waiting on Mazak providing a list of what manuals they have available for my machine.
If you can handle 20meg pdf`s in your email system I can forward these manuals to you.
Mitsubishi in the States are quite helpful but will refer you to Mazak for some things.Mitsubishi and Mazak in the UK are worse than poor.
I would not worry too much about the leds on the relay boards at this stage.Due to the faults you have on the control the machine is in e-stop and the servodrives and hydraulics won`t come up.What leds do you have on the Freqrol spindle drive?
Mark.

[gridley51]

Checked my notes.
I had asked Mits service about error 22 in case battery charging did not clear it.Their reply was to check parameters Y01,Y02,Y03 and Y04.In my case charging the battery cleared it.
Mark

[nlh]

Hey Mark,

Thanks for the insight and information. I'd love to take you up on your offer for the PDF files but I just don't think my e-mail system could handle that all in one shot. Is there any way you could upload them to a free file server and e-mail or post the links?

So you did get the alarm 22 fixed? Did you also get your screen to come back on?

I was talking to a friend a little while ago that runs a Mazak similar to this only bigger, same control though. He said last year they had a problem with the screen where without warning it just blanked out. They carefully removed the boards, one by one, from the control and reseated them. Screen worked after that.

Unfortunately for me the machine in question is about 40 or 50 miles away so I just can't pop in and start checking things. If I can get it running then the machine is mine, unfortunately if I can't then it has to stay. This is due to the fact that the area it is in has a higher ceiling than the rest of the shop and the head must be lowered to be moved(which it should be anyway).

Concerning the batteries. Are these just standard off the shelf availability or are they a proprietory setup? You say you are making your own. Do you have any pictures you could post?

More than likely it's a battery issue just like yours. I do have the parameter sheet though so I will check those when I get the chance.

I didn't even think to check the freqrol drive. I may get a chance to get back to the machine this week. If so I'll check and get back to you.

Thanks again,
Nate

[gridley51]

Nate,the monitor problem only appeared today.I cleared the error 22 a while back.But if the machine was not powered up for a few days it came back due to the battery going flat.The batteries are 3.6v 150ma or similar.They consist of three 1.2v button cells linked together and screwed on to two upstands on the boards that have them.You can pull the boards without causing any problems and you will see them.The problem is that if you take the batteries off you will lose parameters,it is not possible to change them while the power is on as they are hard to reach.My plan was to make up a battery pack with two leads and a couple of crocodile clips,I could then clip it on to the upstands to keep the board powered while I removed the faulty battery and replaced it.
If the Freqrol drive has a fault it puts the machine into e-stop thus stopping the hydraulics and servos powering up.The Mazak e-stop line is quite convoluted and difficult to follow,not helped by the poor quality drawings I have.
I bought this machine knowing it was dead and was supposed to have a spindle drive fault but in reality it had several faults all of which would cause an e-stop and I still haven`t worked out how some of them developed as the machine should have stopped after the first one.
My way of approaching the problems was to start with the control and get it powered with no alarms.I then repaired the spindle drive and this allowed the machine to come up and the hydraulics and servodrives to power up.I then left it for a couple of weeks as I had more pressing jobs and only got back to it today.I`m not in a hurry.
As regards lowering the head to get it out the shop it`s in,it`s a simple job to wind the head down manually.If you remove the covers at the top of the ballscrew you will see a square hole you can put something in to wind the screw manually.The brake for the z axis is right on the very top so it is easy to release it.Make sure you prop the head up first as there will be no counterbalance hydraulic pressure and the head will drop when you release the brake.
I can get my son to upload these pdf`s to our website for you to download.It will have to wait until Monday though as he does not come in at weekends.

[nlh]

Thanks again Mark,

You seem to be a wealth of information. We did leave the machine powered up for several hours but it did not seem to change anything. In one of the manuals I found where someone had hand written a procedure for clearing an alarm 20 or 22 but when I attempted to do it I couldn't get it to work. Thinking back on it, I don't think I did it right. I will try again when I get the chance. I will also be contacting Mitsu and Mazak this week when I can get a spare minute or two.

I'll post back when I find out more.

[onthebumper]

On the CPU card (either FX01 or FX701) there are eight dip switches. Try switching on the second one (second from the top). Power on the control for about ten seconds then power it down. Repeat this process about ten times. As long as the batteries are good then this should clear the alarm. Not a bad idea to change the batteries too. Call Mitsubishi to order the batteries and ask a tech how to change them. With most of the FX controls they need to be done with power on so that you don't lose the data.
If you still cannot clear the alarm then contact Mitsubishi (847-878-2500). They will be able to tell you which board is bad and tell you which one may need to be repaired and how much it will cost (flat rate charge).

[onthebumper]

In the NC control find the CPU board (FX01 or FX701). On there you will find eight dip switches. Switch the second one (second from the top). Power on the control for about ten seconds and then power off. Do this about ten times. As long as the batteries are good this should clear the alarm.
If this doesn't clear the alarm and the parameters look good then more then likely you have a bad board or the s/w is corrupt. Call mitsubishi (847-478-2500) and they will be able to tell you which board and how much it will cost to repair it (flat rate).

[gridley51]

onthe bumper.
Do you think it`s possible to change the batteries on the cards while they are in position?Or is it possible to take ajacent cards out to gain access?
There is less than 1/2" between the cards and the batteries are held on with philips screws.
Do you know what causes the monitor not to come on.The batteries are weak but normally recharge,the last time the machine was off for about three weeks and after leaving it on to charge the batteries,the battery alarms cleared but I have a ram fault led on the FX784.8 board and the monitor won`t come up.Any ideas?
Also note that I spoke to Mitsi in the States regarding "error 22" and have posted their answer above.

[onthebumper]

Yes you can replace the boards with power on. Remove the boards to the right of the board you want to change the battery on with power OFF. Make sure you have enough room to get a short screw driver in there. Power on the control and carefully remove the battery and reinstall the new one. Leave the control on for a little while to allow the new battery to charge. If there is another board with a battery do the same for that board as well. Some times these controls have more then one board with a battery.
It's tough to tell why the screen is not coming on. My best guess is to check the led's in the operation panel. You may have a series of boards or just one FX709 behind the keyboard. Either way you should see some sort of an led blinking indicationg that those boards/board are talking with the control in the electrical cabinet. Again you may want to talk with a Mitsubishi Tech directly. They have a complete description for each led.

[nlh]

onthebumper,

Thanks for the information. As soon as I get a chance I'll try that procedure. As well as check the parameters. Just as Mark has asked, how is it possible to change batteries with the machine powered up? There just isn't any room.

Mark,

Did you try removing the boards and reseating them? I downloaded the manuals from Mitsu's website and found quite a bit of information in them. If I read the manual correctly there are some CRT control boards below the monitor, possibly accesible if you remove the front panel. It's possible these need to be reseated. The manual also mentioned checking the supply voltage in a certain area. You may want to check that out. I'm going to give this all a shot when I can get a few hours.

[gridley51]

I have had all the boards out,checked the pins and sockets and replaced them.The front panel has two screws at the left hand side which,when released allow the whole panel to swing open and gives excellent access to the rear of the operator panel and monitor.I have power to the monitor and have checked the fuse in the monitor supply and the fuse on the board on the side of the monitor.
I spoke to an ex Mazak tech yesterday who reckons the monitor is ok and the problem is a system fault probably related to the ram led that is on.His prognosis is based on the fact that the green led on the reset button is off.If it was on it would be a monitor fault if it`s off it is a system fault which is not bringing the monitor on.
I have him booked to come in during the next couple of weeks so all will be revealed then.
Mark.

[onthebumper]

Again it's not that dificult to replace the batteries. Just remove the boards that are to the right of where the battery is with power off. You should only need to remove two or three boards. Power on the control and replace the battery with power on. The control will not come up but it does not matter. With the boards removed and the power on, no damage will be done to the control. You just want to make sure you have power to the board when removing the battery so that the data on that board does not get erased. Once the battery is replaced leave the control on for a short while to allow the battery to charge, then power down and reinstall the boards.

[nlh]

onthebumper,

Thanks for the information. My question regarding the replacement of batteries was posted at about the same time your replacement procedure was, so I apologize for any miscommunication.

Looks like I will get a chance to look the machine over again today. I'm going to print out this thread and take it along with me for reference.

Mark,

I will let you know what I find out on the Freqrol board in regards to LED's. Again, If I come across anything new I will post back with findings. Please let us know what your tech finds out.

Nate

[nlh]

Ok I was able to get back to the machine today and check a few things.

First off the reset procedure I tried last time, I didn't do correctly then, as the documentation pertaining to the dip switchs was vague. At that time I flipped up the top toggle switch. Obviously this didn't work and I hope I didn't cause other problems.

Today I did it correctly and the e-stop condition was cleared, hydraulics, servos, came online. That was good. The only problem is that now the screen doesn't seem to want to come on period. After leaving it on for about 20 min. there was hardly any static emmited from the screen.

Also the front interface panel doesn't have any form of lights other than the power on button(red led). There were lights on before I performed the procedure.

Currently there are no fault LEDS on anywhere that I can see, either crt related or nc. There is however one LED that is positioned way in behind the picture tube that is on. I didn't have a flashlight so I couldn't tell any identification.

The boards that control the crt, one of them has an "RDY" led that is light. This is good, right? The bad part, I think, is that the light labeled "TxD" or similar does not light, blink, etc. Which it did before I did the reset procedure.

It's almost as if part of the nc isn't "booting up". This was a problem before, it usually took an hour or so for the screen to properly come on,but this time it's different. No horizontal lines, flashing screen, etc. Just nothing. Voltage seems to be ok.

When I first performed the reset and turned the control back on. One of the relays on the back panel, bank TB504, relay TCME, was rapidly engaged for short periods of time. It was very sporadic. I turned the control off and powered back on again and it didn't do it again.

Mark,

I remembered to jot down the LEDS that were lit on the spindle drive. First there is a bank of light on the right side of the top circuit board. Lights 1, 2, 5, and 10 were on. Also there are 4 larger LEDS, sort of tucked between the top of the circuit board and a metal piece. All 4 were on. The bank of LED's on that are on the left and toward the bottom were not lit.

Could you verify for me on your machine whether or not that LED behind the picture tube is on?

Also I should note that when I went to do the reset procedure, dip #2 was already in the on position! In other words this machine has been run for I don't know how many years with this switch on. Is that possibly a part of the problem? What is the purpose of the top toggle switch on board FX01?

I didn't have time to call Mitsu today but will be doing so tomorrow.

Thanks guys,
Nate

[gridley51]

Nate,when the control comes up ok you should have a ready led and a flickering led on I think the FX715 board.I had a red led on at the back of the monitor when it was working.The reset button above the start button on the operator panel should go green if the system is ok.
I will need to look at the Freqrol drive tomorrow to see what the lights mean but there is a legend printed on the steel front cover for the top right hand leds.
The Freqrol manuals and the M2 manuals are on the www.meau.com site for free download.
The meaning of the leds and dipswitches is explained in the M2 manual.
I had a look in the M2 manual today to see what that dipswitch does and have not made up my mind whether it would be a good thing to change or not.
I have hopes of getting the tech in a week tomorrow.One thing about Mazak and Mazak techs,they do not move fast.
Mark.

[nlh]

Mark,

I checked the manual in regards to the switchs but couldn't really find any description of the switches in question. I was looking at the maintenance manual, is that what you were looking at?

Unfortunately at this time the green led for the reset button is not on.

Could you confirm for me what the position of the following switches. Follow this link, the third picture with the 8 position dip switch pack.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Mitsubishi-Melda...QQcmdZViewItem

Switch in question is the second one from the left.

Thanks,
Nate

[gridley51]

Nate,
1 and 8 are off,all others on.I will check my board later.
Mark.

[nlh]

Thanks Mark.

[gridley51]

Nate,
I pulled my board and looked at the dip switches.They are set the same,1 and 8 are off all others on.Also had a quick look at the leds you have on the Freqrol.Leds 1,2,5 and 10 are good.Well I`m not 100% sure on 1.It`s to do with the phasing of the Freqrol supply.According to my understanding of the manual it doesn`t matter about the phasing.I`m not sure what the other leds you mentioned are so cannot comment.
Mark.