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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    16

    Walk away from a machine?

    We just purchased a VF1 and are machining loads of aluminum parts. Each part takes about 20min and there's a bunch of tool changes. Because this is our first machine and none of us have worked in a machine shop with cnc equipment, we a bit short on common procedures. Do you leave a machine and come back to reload? I bet there's more than one answer here and I'm ready to learn something,

    Thanks
    J

  2. #2
    if its a straight forward aluminum job that has had one part proven ,walk away if you feel its safe to do so !
    if its stainless types or hard steels of the sort then you may want to stick around depending on your tooling and procedure

    the question is so broad in the big scheme of things ,

    its all dependant on materials , tooling , speeds/feeds and tolerancing ,
    its boils down to common sense and leasons learned after having melt downs tool breakage , parts flying out etc,etc

    since you sound inexperienced your best bet is to play it safe until you are comfortable to leave the machine alone , this type of knowledge comes with experience and not under other peoples suggestions who don t know the parts or the process your running
    i used to run a 8 pallet system lights out on the weekends , i'd go back every 8-10 hrs to load some parts and leave again , but we understood the process and any potential problems that we would face ,then we eliminated those troubles


    the short version to your question is sure i do it all the time with aluminum jobs

    to be honest the ball is in your hand
    without us totally understanding what it is you are doing ,all we can do is blow wind out of our butts which could mean potential troubles for you

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    16
    Yeh that all sounds cool. I understand that at the end of the days it's my call- I own the machine so any stuff ups will hurt my pocket anyway.. I have in the last week of so left the machine running while I did some office work and having watched the machine make the same part 100 times I felt more than comfortable. When we purchased the machine (2nd hand), the toolmaker that ran the machine said to make sure I'm there for every tool change, because "that is when things can go wrong". What does that mean??
    What I really wanted to know was, are there people setting and forgetting after they're confidant with the machine and the part they're machining OR is it in fact a complete no no to step more than 12 inches away from the big red button.
    I think you've answered my question.
    Any other input would be greatly appreciated as well.

    Thanks
    J

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    60
    The mill I run is in an environment around others who do not know how to operate the machine. So whenever they could be around (normal business hours) I make extra sure I don't leave it unattended.

    Generally speaking though, I'm so new to CNC that I just like to sit and watch the machine run my parts.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    12177
    There is another thing to consider and that is if something goes seriously wrong the machine will probably have shut itself down before you have responded even if you are hovering right there.

    One thing we do that greatly reduces the chance of serious damage is have the Tool Overload Setting on Autofeed and set the maximum load at 120%. This means the feed backs of if the load starts going up and the machine grinds to a halt more gently.
    An open mind is a virtue...so long as all the common sense has not leaked out.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    249
    At the end of the day we set our machines to turn off after M30. This is done in the settings mode though I do not recall the exact number. So the machine is set to this and we start the program as we are leaving and the machine will turn off at the end of the machine. You can also do alot with the Max Tool Load and Tool Life so that if a tool breaks or exceeds the load or life the machine will stop protecting all the following toolling.
    Jeff Lange
    Lightning Tool & Manufacturing, Inc.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    61
    I also have the Haas turn off at m30 and I always walk away while its running but I also like to gamble lol.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    12177
    Quote Originally Posted by binzer View Post
    I also have the Haas turn off at m30 and I always walk away while its running but I also like to gamble lol.
    It is not really a gamble when the machine is set up correctly and doing routine running on light alloy parts. If you are doing something exotic then it is not a gamble either it is silly.
    An open mind is a virtue...so long as all the common sense has not leaked out.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    3634
    The cnc I run has a param. so I can enter my cell phone number, If it has an alarm, it will send me a text message (how you like them apples! )

    It would be to late for a crash & burn, bet I can get to the machine before the fire dept. (flame2)




    .

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    148
    You could also program an M1 at each tool change and use the optional stop function to pause at each tool change if that is a big concern.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    31
    they crash so fast. it would prob crash twice before u hit the tiny red button (it shrinks when u panic) but like they said, the load its self will stall the machine. we always set up the mills and leave.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by JHamdan78 View Post
    (it shrinks when u panic) .
    i think they outright disappear


    most crashes happen fast but i can t necessarily agree 100 % with the machine stalls out idea , weve got a four sided chick tombstone that is carved pretty badly because nothing was stopping the cutter

    i snapped a 50 taper holder in half once on the 4 axis , the only thing that stopped me from destroying the $15000+ chunk of titanium i was working on was the estop button ,and yes it all happened fast
    most crashes can be avoided with common sense ,as most crashes are due to human error or lack of judgement

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    4826
    Has anyone invented a radio controlled switch that a person could wire into the EStop or Feedhold circuits? For those times when a person does walk away, sometimes you can hear trouble starting to happen, but you are too far away to stop it in time. A 'personal' EStop would be nice to have.
    First you get good, then you get fast. Then grouchiness sets in.

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    12177
    Quote Originally Posted by HuFlungDung View Post
    Has anyone invented a radio controlled switch that a person could wire into the EStop or Feedhold circuits? For those times when a person does walk away, sometimes you can hear trouble starting to happen, but you are too far away to stop it in time. A 'personal' EStop would be nice to have.
    Yes but when you have a dozen machines all honking away and one starts making funny noises you would end up with eleven machines shut down unnecessarily. Although maybe if it was Feedhold that would be okay.
    An open mind is a virtue...so long as all the common sense has not leaked out.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by HuFlungDung View Post
    Has anyone invented a radio controlled switch that a person could wire into the EStop or Feedhold circuits? For those times when a person does walk away, sometimes you can hear trouble starting to happen, but you are too far away to stop it in time. A 'personal' EStop would be nice to have.

    that could be the million dollar idea

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Posts
    212
    Hey there you go. I don't see why you couldn't hook up on of these to the feed hold button or e-stop (Ebay Item number: 270149171373).
    I use a unit just like this except it is 110v for my shop vac to turn it on and off since I have ~15 ft of hose and the canister tucked out of the way.
    Of course I can't help but to suggest that the best variation would be where the switch is mounted between your but cheeks, right? It's been said before and happens everytime, that button could be as big as a stop sign your brain just can't seem to find it.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Posts
    530
    Help!!! I've fallen and can't get up....to reach the e-stop

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    9
    at our shop the longest cycle time we run barely reaches the 15 minute mark with most runs only in the 2-6 minute range, it pretty much became the unwritten rule that if you have time between loads and you are to walk away from your machine for any reason to let the other machinist around you know so they could listen and watch for any errors, many times ive seen people fly across our shop to try to smack that e-stop button because somebody else wasnt paying attention.

    -John K
    March Performance

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by millbastard View Post
    many times ive seen people fly across our shop to try to smack that e-stop button because somebody else wasnt paying attention.

    -John K
    March Performance
    keeps em on their toes
    the guys who are jumpy to every out of the ordinary noise are the ones a company needs to keep happy

    but then maybe not always ,in writing this i had a flashback to the one of the funniest thing ive seen happen to a guy setting up a machine
    my buddy was setting up a nightmare of a job , it was a steel job and he was pretty far into running a ruffer and it began making some ugly noise , so after a while this dorky operator we worked with walked up and was straining to look over his shoulder to see what was happening , within 20 seconds of being there the donk hammered the estop button , well , my buddy flew around and screamed what the @#$@%@# are you $#^ doing , the guy says to him the machine was making some funny noises , i thought this guy was going to be picking himself off the ground , the guy was so angry ,after watching everything that happened i was leaned over the bench trying to catch my breath from laughing so hard

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    4826
    Dertsap,
    Didn't your buddy at least squeeze the dork by the throat til his eyes bulged out! I would be some upset by that too, LoL
    First you get good, then you get fast. Then grouchiness sets in.

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)

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