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IndustryArena Forum > CNC Electronics > Stepper Motors / Drives > CL86T Driver Issues - Closed Loop Stepper Driver
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  1. #1

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    Oct 2020
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    CL86T Driver Issues - Closed Loop Stepper Driver

    Hello All,

    I built my own machine CNC router which has been running perfectly for 2 months until my Z axis started playing up.

    im running Masso as the controller and Nema 34 Closed steppers.

    the Issue is with either the motor or the stepper driver (the error is that its losing steps).

    This occurs spasmodically sometimes on homing or halfway though the job.

    I have checked and the cabling joins are all fine.

    has anyone had this issue or if you have any troubleshooting ideas I will be glad to hear them.

    https://www.omc-stepperonline.com/download/CL86T.pdf

    its is the 3rd error in section 2.4

    https://www.omc-stepperonline.com/cl...l?search=cl86t

    https://www.omc-stepperonline.com/cl...5BNema%2034%5D

  2. #2
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    Re: CL86T Driver Issues - Closed Loop Stepper Driver

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreco View Post
    Hello All,

    I built my own machine CNC router which has been running perfectly for 2 months until my Z axis started playing up.

    im running Masso as the controller and Nema 34 Closed steppers.

    the Issue is with either the motor or the stepper driver (the error is that its losing steps).

    This occurs spasmodically sometimes on homing or halfway though the job.

    I have checked and the cabling joins are all fine.

    has anyone had this issue or if you have any troubleshooting ideas I will be glad to hear them.

    https://www.omc-stepperonline.com/download/CL86T.pdf

    its is the 3rd error in section 2.4

    https://www.omc-stepperonline.com/cl...l?search=cl86t

    https://www.omc-stepperonline.com/cl...5BNema%2034%5D

    I have the same exact motor and driver. I am having an issue where the motor/drive will not respond to the direction signal spasmodically. Suddenly if the axis is supposed to travel in the - direction it will travel in the + direction. If I move the driver to another axis, the problem follows the driver so it does not apear to be the signal coming from my controller Centroid Acorn. This has happened on 2 drives so far, so I have lost confidence in these things. I am in the stage of finishing my machine and doing some calibration and test cuts, so these drives do not have any real use.

    Did you ever resolve your issue? Anyone else having problems with stepper online closed loop stepper setups?

    At this point, I feel like I need to consider some alternative, since 2 problems out of 4 drivers is not really giving me much confidence.

    Kirst

  3. #3
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    Re: CL86T Driver Issues - Closed Loop Stepper Driver

    What kind of breakout board do you use, are you sure the input to the direction is good enough.

  4. #4
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    Re: CL86T Driver Issues - Closed Loop Stepper Driver

    Quote Originally Posted by Toinvd View Post
    What kind of breakout board do you use, are you sure the input to the direction is good enough.
    I am using a centroid acorn with 24v for the signals. If I swap the faulty drive to a different axis, the issue follows the drive to the new axis which leads me to believe that the problem is with the drive and not the input signal.

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kfed View Post
    I am using a centroid acorn with 24v for the signals. If I swap the faulty drive to a different axis, the issue follows the drive to the new axis which leads me to believe that the problem is with the drive and not the input signal.
    I am currently having this exact same problem, with the exact same components. I have a replacement driver on the way, and I will update when I have more information.

    Have you made any headway since your last post?

  6. #6
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    Re: CL86T Driver Issues - Closed Loop Stepper Driver

    This might be due to the input of the driver which consist of a opto coupler.
    The resistor internal is perhaps calculated for 5 volts which means that working on 24 volts input signal, the LED in the opto coupler get's a bit to much leading it to fail after some ( long ) time.
    When you replace the driver you could add a resistor in series to the signal for step, dir and enable. go for something like 3K3

  7. #7
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    Re: CL86T Driver Issues - Closed Loop Stepper Driver

    Quote Originally Posted by Toinvd View Post
    This might be due to the input of the driver which consist of a opto coupler.
    The resistor internal is perhaps calculated for 5 volts which means that working on 24 volts input signal, the LED in the opto coupler get's a bit to much leading it to fail after some ( long ) time.
    When you replace the driver you could add a resistor in series to the signal for step, dir and enable. go for something like 3K3
    The manual tells you to do that anyway using a 2k (if it's actually read).
    https://www.omc-stepperonline.com/download/CL86T.pdf

    How is it wired up?.
    It does say specifically on the acorn.......
    Use the screw header outputs for 24v SERVOS....
    Use the DB25 TTL 5v outputs for STEPPER DRIVES.
    https://www.centroidcnc.com/centroid...controller.pdf

    If you used the 24v headers for the steppers then maybe you need to read the manuals and ultimately this is where your problem lies.
    If a drive is reated for 5v, then use 5v. If a drive is rated for 24v, then use 24v.

  8. #8
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    Re: CL86T Driver Issues - Closed Loop Stepper Driver

    Quote Originally Posted by dazp1976 View Post
    The manual tells you to do that anyway using a 2k (if it's actually read).
    https://www.omc-stepperonline.com/download/CL86T.pdf

    How is it wired up?.
    It does say specifically on the acorn.......
    Use the screw header outputs for 24v SERVOS....
    Use the DB25 TTL 5v outputs for STEPPER DRIVES.
    https://www.centroidcnc.com/centroid...controller.pdf

    If you used the 24v headers for the steppers then maybe you need to read the manuals and ultimately this is where your problem lies.
    If a drive is reated for 5v, then use 5v. If a drive is rated for 24v, then use 24v.
    I was following the Acorn schematics for the CL86Y which is of course a different drive than the CL86T. After reading the CL86T manual more carefully I have rewired the drive to use the 5V from the acorn power supply. So far it seems to be working fine. Stepperonline was really good about sending out a replacement for the failed drive.
    [https://www.centroidcnc.com/dealersupport/schematics/uploads/S15033.r2.pdf[/URL]

  9. #9

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    Re: CL86T Driver Issues - Closed Loop Stepper Driver

    Quote Originally Posted by Kfed View Post
    I was following the Acorn schematics for the CL86Y which is of course a different drive than the CL86T. After reading the CL86T manual more carefully I have rewired the drive to use the 5V from the acorn power supply. So far it seems to be working fine. Stepperonline was really good about sending out a replacement for the failed drive.
    [https://www.centroidcnc.com/dealersupport/schematics/uploads/S15033.r2.pdf[/URL]
    Once again, I did exactly what you did and followed the Acorn schematics for the CL86Y. After reading this morning's replies, I decided to troubleshoot a bit before the new drive shows up. I wired the CL86T for 5v and gave it a shot. Unfortunately, this amplified the problem, and erratic behavior started to show up on the axis that was previously working without problems, and the axis that was previously having problems continued to have the same issues.

    I still have the replacement drive on the way, along with some 2K resistors to wire as the CL86T manual shows for the 24v configuration. I also ordered a DB25 breakout board to give that a shot in the case that I continue to have problems after swapping the drives.

    Kfed,
    1.Are you using the screw headers or the DB25 connection? I am currently using the screw headers, even when changing the voltage to 5v (maybe this is a problem).
    2.Would you mind posting some pictures of your wiring, or do you have a configuration/wiring diagram that varies from the Acorn CL86Y Schematic?
    3.Do you have the "Pend+/Pend-" connected to anything? They are unused on the Acorn schematic.

  10. #10
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    Re: CL86T Driver Issues - Closed Loop Stepper Driver

    Quote Originally Posted by Cahark View Post
    Once again, I did exactly what you did and followed the Acorn schematics for the CL86Y. After reading this morning's replies, I decided to troubleshoot a bit before the new drive shows up. I wired the CL86T for 5v and gave it a shot. Unfortunately, this amplified the problem, and erratic behavior started to show up on the axis that was previously working without problems, and the axis that was previously having problems continued to have the same issues.

    I still have the replacement drive on the way, along with some 2K resistors to wire as the CL86T manual shows for the 24v configuration. I also ordered a DB25 breakout board to give that a shot in the case that I continue to have problems after swapping the drives.

    Kfed,
    1.Are you using the screw headers or the DB25 connection? I am currently using the screw headers, even when changing the voltage to 5v (maybe this is a problem).
    2.Would you mind posting some pictures of your wiring, or do you have a configuration/wiring diagram that varies from the Acorn CL86Y Schematic?
    3.Do you have the "Pend+/Pend-" connected to anything? They are unused on the Acorn schematic.
    Cahark:
    1. I am using the screw headers. It might be better to use the DB25 connector. It was easy to switch the 5V + to the Acorn, but looking more closely, I may need to switch to DB25 connection. Unfortunately the connector will not fit inside my cabinet without a big remodel.
    2. Here is a modified Schematic how I hooked it up using the Acorn supplied power supply.
    3. I do not have anything wired to the Pend+/Pend-.

    The problem I had was that the motor would respond to step signals, it would always move, but not always in the correct direction. As Toinvd pointed out, the optocoupler on the direction input signal may be damaged such that the drive is not behaving. The damage may have already been done on your axis that was previously working.

    What is the behavior the you are experiencing with your motor - drives?

    If I had it to do over, I probably would have opted for the CL86Y.

    My system seems to be working now, I have not used it much yet. I did have some mis-alignment with a 2 sided part yesterday. I figured it was bad registration on my part. I am wondering now if there could be some missed steps due to the 5V to the screw terminals on the Acorn?

    Good luck, and keep me posted on your progressAttachment 471260

  11. #11

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    Oct 2021
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    Re: CL86T Driver Issues - Closed Loop Stepper Driver

    Kfed and all,

    Sorry for the delay, this has been a busy winter season so far. At the moment, my problems have been solved. Here is what I've found.

    It turns out that there are 3 versions of the manual for the CL86T, V3 being the most current. The V1 manual was included with my drivers. In the V1 manual, there is no specific callout for resistors. The diagram does show a small square in the wire path, but no labeling or further documentation regarding resistors is included. In addition, the V1 manual states "5v or 24v , 5v recommended" but they do not include any more precautions or resistor callouts (see attached pic). The V3 manual which I acquired online goes into much more detail about 2k resistors being required when the drive is used at 24v (see attached pic).

    With this in mind I went to Stepperonline customer service and emailed back and fourth with Wing. Wing provided excellent service. He helped me to troubleshoot the problem and offered to replace both of my drives that were damaged due to 24v use without a resistor for free. The only downfall is that even though I purchased through Stepperonline's USA warehouse, I had to return the faulty drives to China. This was $58 through USPS.

    During the conversation, I drew a diagram that could not be more clear and asked Wing to confirm that it was correct before I wired the new drives. He confirmed the attached diagram (see attached pic with yellow highlights).

    Since then I have received the replacement drivers and wired them with 2k resistors to the screw down 24v headers on the Centroid Acorn board. It's been 2 months now and so far so good!

    Thanks for the help troubleshooting, I hope this helps someone in the future. In case I wasn't clear, DO NOT WIRE THE CL86T DRIVERS AT 24V WITHOUT RESISTORS!!!!!! I LEARNED THE HARD WAY haha good luck!

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cahark View Post
    Kfed and all,

    Sorry for the delay, this has been a busy winter season so far. At the moment, my problems have been solved. Here is what I've found.

    It turns out that there are 3 versions of the manual for the CL86T, V3 being the most current. The V1 manual was included with my drivers. In the V1 manual, there is no specific callout for resistors. The diagram does show a small square in the wire path, but no labeling or further documentation regarding resistors is included. In addition, the V1 manual states "5v or 24v , 5v recommended" but they do not include any more precautions or resistor callouts (see attached pic). The V3 manual which I acquired online goes into much more detail about 2k resistors being required when the drive is used at 24v (see attached pic).

    With this in mind I went to Stepperonline customer service and emailed back and fourth with Wing. Wing provided excellent service. He helped me to troubleshoot the problem and offered to replace both of my drives that were damaged due to 24v use without a resistor for free. The only downfall is that even though I purchased through Stepperonline's USA warehouse, I had to return the faulty drives to China. This was $58 through USPS.

    During the conversation, I drew a diagram that could not be more clear and asked Wing to confirm that it was correct before I wired the new drives. He confirmed the attached diagram (see attached pic with yellow highlights).

    Since then I have received the replacement drivers and wired them with 2k resistors to the screw down 24v headers on the Centroid Acorn board. It's been 2 months now and so far so good!

    Thanks for the help troubleshooting, I hope this helps someone in the future. In case I wasn't clear, DO NOT WIRE THE CL86T DRIVERS AT 24V WITHOUT RESISTORS!!!!!! I LEARNED THE HARD WAY haha good luck!


    Isn't the H6 DB25 connector on the centroid acorn the 5v output option for 5v stepper drive connection?
    Then you have the 24v header option for compatible drives like some servos etc.

    This makes the Acorn wiring versatile to both system types.

    You should have used the DB25.

    Every stepper drive I've seen has stated direct 5v P/D connection and for 24v use 2k resistor.
    When 12v use 1k.
    When 5v use 0.
    Sometimes not shown in wiring diagram but written somewhere.
    Very unusual situation you had there. Glad it's fixed.

  13. #13
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    Re: CL86T Driver Issues - Closed Loop Stepper Driver

    Cahark:

    Glad to hear that it is working for you now. I have been using my system quite a bit now, running some very long programs and have not had any issues at all. I just used the 5V from the Acorn power supply, no resistors, and still using the screw terminals.

    Dazp1976. In hind sight the DB25 connector would have been the better option. Stepperonline has a closed loop drive CL86Y that can take 24V, and Acorn has a schematic for that drive using the 24V on the screw terminals, so it is pretty easy to fall into that trap.

    Kfed

  14. #14

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    Re: CL86T Driver Issues - Closed Loop Stepper Driver

    Quote Originally Posted by dazp1976 View Post
    Isn't the H6 DB25 connector on the centroid acorn the 5v output option for 5v stepper drive connection?
    Then you have the 24v header option for compatible drives like some servos etc.

    This makes the Acorn wiring versatile to both system types.

    You should have used the DB25.

    Every stepper drive I've seen has stated direct 5v P/D connection and for 24v use 2k resistor.
    When 12v use 1k.
    When 5v use 0.
    Sometimes not shown in wiring diagram but written somewhere.
    Very unusual situation you had there. Glad it's fixed.
    Dazp, you are correct, the DB25 is the 5v option and the screw headers are the 24v option.

    Initially I chose the screw down header option to minimize the amount of connections between the driver and the acorn board. I figured if I connected directly to the acorn and skipped using a DB25 breakout board, it would be one less component to potentially fail.

    Also, Centroid provides factory wiring diagrams using CL86Y stepper drives wired into the screw down terminals, so I assumed everything would be alright. It worked out well at 24v in the end, but the resistor issue certainly set me back.

    I looked back at the V1 manual once again just to be sure but I was unable to find resistor callouts, or precautions to take when using 24v. These specifications are clearly called out in the V3 manual.

    If i have trouble in the future I may switch to 5v, but I am happy with how the system is working at the moment.

  15. #15

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    Re: CL86T Driver Issues - Closed Loop Stepper Driver

    Quote Originally Posted by Kfed View Post
    Cahark:

    Glad to hear that it is working for you now. I have been using my system quite a bit now, running some very long programs and have not had any issues at all. I just used the 5V from the Acorn power supply, no resistors, and still using the screw terminals.

    Kfed
    I did try this method with no luck, but now I believe it was due to the drives having already been damaged when I gave it a shot. I'm glad it is working for you now, and I will keep this option in mind for the future.

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