[tikka308]

I'm getting ready to put in my order here in the next week and have been compiling a list of tools, accessories, etc needed.

I'll be using a TAIG CNC and am starting from scratch (i.e. I currently have no tools).

I've been using the forum as a resource (including threads like http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35023) and have put together the attached spreadsheet.

I wanted to 1) ask if anyone has feedback (cells in Purple are things I'm still researching and 2) share this list with others. Hopefully it will be comprehensive and useful!

[cjdavis618]

First off, I see a couple of things I would change.

One of which is where you are getting this stuff. Enco is HIGH compared to most places. I would check those enco prices against Wholesale tool (wttool.com) and also Little Machine Shop.

On your "Test indicator" I recommend you get one that is a "Coaxial test indicator." LMS has one and so does WTtool.com. They use the Spindle to set tram and find centers in circles. It would be good to get a test indicator also, but I wouldn't use it for tramming. What you have works the same way as the coax version, but the added base to mount onto the column is a step that can cause errors.

The coax one, you simply mount in the collet, tighten it like a bit and then set up the anti-torque bar. The Coax indicator will spin around using the coulumn and then read the conatct you are using. By using the long curves bar, you have about a 8 to 10" swing and you can test your tram a great distance out. and you don't have to worry about loose pivot joints in the stand that the other one has. The coax is still accurate to .0005

I recommend you get that instead here: http://www.littlemachineshop.com/pro...2060&category=

On the drill bit set, you can get the cobalt version from harbor freight for around $90. If you have a store near you, they usually carry them. And it will save you $100 for the same stuff. My opinion is that you get a harbor freight set and then get you a drill doctor to sharpen them as needed. Honestly, drill bits and end mills to an extent are consumables. They are going to dull regardless of how much they cost.



On your Bandsaw, good choice. There are very good reviews of that saw with the design of the stand. Kudos to you on that one.

[S_J_H]

If you want a co-ax then seriously consider buying a real Blake co-ax. I have one of those import co-ax's from LMS. I'm sorry to say it's pretty inaccurate.
I'll use my import co-ax only for initial roughing out of the center location. For that it does work well and is very fast to get you "near center". Then I'll use a test indicator to truley dial it in.
Steve

[cjdavis618]

Yep, it could happen. But that is with any equipment. I got mine from whoelsale tool. It had a calibration sheet in it and a nice case. I tested it with what I had and it seemed to be on as far as my equipment would tell me.

After I got mine trammed, I was able to flycut a large peice with a very smooth finish, so I guess I am one of the lucky ones with my import.

The Blake looks like a good buy though. They have that one at Wttool.com also. He is looking at Starrett on most other measuring tools. I would adjust the tooling and get the good measuring stuff if I had the funds.


Here is the Blake that is mentioned also.
http://www.wttool.com/product-exec/p...o_Ax_Indicator

[tikka308]

$275! Ouch!

I'm just a beginner! I have a comfortable budget and I want to keep the standards as high as is appropriate... but $275 feels expensive!

[fpworks]

I don't see the point in buying a coaxial indicator...a 0.0005" test indicator and a mirror can do the same thing with accuracies to the 0.0001", depending on how round the hole is. (although not as quickly) But there is really no need, unless you are having to pick up centers all the time.

I still don't have one.

I suggest a high quality test indicator (from one of the large instrument manufacturers) and a nice base (i.e. from Noga)...count on spending about $200 and it will last for years. Along with a gauge ring, you can use it to pick up edges with the highest accuracy, tram your spindle, check runout in tools, measure workholding repeatability, align vices and fixtures, locate holes and circular features...the list goes on and on.

BTW, the factory tech used a 0.00005" test indicator on a magnetic base to tram our new mill, not a coaxial indicator.

If you're trying to get by cheap, metric instruments seem to go for less on ebay.

[cjdavis618]

I still don't have one.

Obviously, It saves lots of time.

BTW, the factory tech used a 0.00005" test indicator on a magnetic base to tram our new mill, not a coaxial indicator.

As long as it works and it is what he had, why not.

You know what, Tikka came and asked opinion about what he might want. I gave him some from my experience. I didn't intend on this being a pissing match between owners of test indicators.

If you have a mill that can do 0.00005 cuts, then can we borrow it since I am not worthy.... lol. I happen to be my own factory tech and I am happy with my co-ax. That is all that matters to me.

:tired:

Tikka, I wish you the best what ever you get. Which model tikka do you have? T3
(Make sure you have a mirror if you get the test indicator so you can see it from the back )

[tikka308]

cjdavis618 -

thanks for the help! can you clarify your comment "make sure the indicator has a mirror"?

I've actually got the old Sporter 308. It looks like the Sako TRG except it's wood. Had it about 4 years now. have a great 168bthp load cooked up and a nice piece of glass on it... shoots about 1.5MOA at 400 yards!

[S_J_H]

$275! Ouch!

I'm just a beginner! I have a comfortable budget and I want to keep the standards as high as is appropriate... but $275 feels expensive!

Yeah I used to think that way too. But after a while you'll see you very often get what you pay for. A lot of the cheap items that "look" like brand name high quality tooling is pure junk. It is almost a crapshoot at times. Sometimes you'll score a real nice import tool for cheap. Other times you'll realize you did not save a penny and just bought useless junk.
I have bought more expensive "Fowler" branded stuff and it was total crap compared to a Enco house brand tool. Had the needle fall off a fowler test indicator a day after I bought it,lol. SPI branded tooling seems to be decent or I just got lucky. I have bought Enco no name reamers that wobbled on a surface plate. Now isn't that nice when you want a precision reamed hole.

I have both top quality name brand tooling and no name chinese imports of many different quality levels. The worst of the worst looks like it was made by chipped stones. The best is quite nice. I must have 20 ground shafts on different import tooling. I have a good set of ETM collets and collet chuck. The ground finish on the shaft of the ETM collet chuck makes 95% of the chinese import look VERY poor.

As for the Co-Ax indicators. They are nice and way fast for finding centers compared to a test indicator and mirror. I have read many others have the same lousy experience with the import co-ax's though you take your chances. The thing is if you don't check them out with a good test indicator you may never know how far off it is. I can have my Import co-ax read dead nuts still and then mount a test indicator and show it was way off.
Looking at my import co-ax the cheapest part seems to be the the gage. The housing/mechanicals is not bad really. Just retrofitting a quality dial gage would probably make it a lot more accurate and sensitive. But now you are close to the price of a Blake.
Heck I want one of those nifty 3D tasters for my measurement tooling collection. Over 400$ though and that's for an import! Maybe one day.
Steve

[cjdavis618]

.308s are notorious for accuracy and is sounds like you have gotten a great gun. I shoot match with my ar15 and love shooting sports in general. One reason I got into machine work was to make "Simple" things like muzzle brakes, etc


What I mean with the mirror is that when you mount the test indicator on the spindle to center and tram, the regular test indicator will spin around the column with the spindle. Hence making the dial turn to the back of the machine where you can't see it unless you have a mirror to read it from.

A hand held mirror will work, but I decided that it was worth the money for my import co-ax since I only have 2 hands. I didn't want to fumble around on the most important part of the mill setup. Not to mention any deflection or looseness of the connecting arm from a regular test indicator holder is irrelevant. the only thing measured is from the base of the spindle, to the contact on the workspace. Nothing else is there to move or cause inaccurate readings.

Bear in mind, I am not using CNC on any of my equipment yet. I still do it manually with my DRO. But you will still need the setup tools to get your mill electronics and software set. Like I said, I would get both a regular test indicator and a Co-ax. If you have both, you will probably find yourself using the co-ax more. That is what happened with me. I see that I am not the norm here and most prefer regular test indicators, that is fine. But My preference is the co-ax. The decision was based on logic and not hype. It's really simple. More parts equal more failure. You can see on the spec sheets of the co-ax indicators that the center runout on the spindle it has is .0002. That is as accurate as I need for my grizzly mill.

[dansutula]

Tikka,
Have you considered a top-dial, aka "jig-bore type" test indicator. They are not as popular or as readily available as the standard side-dial style, but they do not require a mirror when locating the centers of holes. Mine is a Brown & Sharpe "BesTest". Top quailty for around $225, and more versatile than a co-axial type indicator.
Regards,
Dan

[tikka308]

I appreciate everyones feedback and opinions. I'm struggling with which indicator to buy since I don't understand the pro's & con's of all the options! I have a feeling it's something I will understand MUCH better after I've started using my mill...

[cartertool]

That co-ax would use up most of your z axis on the Taig...

[fpworks]

Obviously, It saves lots of time.




As long as it works and it is what he had, why not.

You know what, Tikka came and asked opinion about what he might want. I gave him some from my experience. I didn't intend on this being a pissing match between owners of test indicators.

If you have a mill that can do 0.00005 cuts, then can we borrow it since I am not worthy.... lol. I happen to be my own factory tech and I am happy with my co-ax. That is all that matters to me.

:tired:

Whoa! Settle down there buddy. I offered my advice as well...I'm sorry that it conflicts with your advice. Let me be more clear: a coaxial indicator is a luxury for him. In my opinion, if you have to locate a bunch of centers, make a fixture, don't bother with a coaxial indicator. Our shop does 97% production work, many on round parts, in a mill, and the fixtures repeat to 0.0005" all day, without a coaxial indicator.

The only way I would purchase a coaxial indicator is if I were doing at least 10 setups per day. Otherwise, a test indicator is just fine!

Since you asked, we do have a mill that is programmable and will jog to 0.00001" increments. And no, you can't borrow it. ;-)

The accuracy of your parts is based on the accumulated error of everything involved in the process...even down to your measuring instruments. Having said that, our machines that are accurate to 0.0001" sometimes struggle to make parts inside a 0.003" tolerance. Why? Accumulated error.

Please don't get so defensive when someone offers a differing opinion.

[cjdavis618]

I guess I read that the wrong way. Wording on the web is very easily mis-understood.

No harm done and thanks for coming to clear that up. Please accept my apology as I misunderstood your posts. I am a member of many boards and I see alot of posts that are truly sarcastic and provoking.

Again, I'm sorry.


Tikka, they are right. I'm not sure how much room you have on the taig, but I know that with my X2 in mill mode I have very little room left over if I use a vise.

[ZipSnipe]

bottom line Tikka get a test dial indicator.dial indicator, dial or digital caliper. at least a 1" micrometer, clamp set, decent vice, good carbide cutters and a lot of these you can get used off Ebay , but the test dial indicator i would buy new.

[fpworks]

No sweat...I know what you mean...lots of intent gets lost is typed words!

:cheers: