[AJCEFFA]

We just got a variaxis 730 with a pallet changer. I have experience in mazarol and eia programming. just wondering were to look for guidance, advice, and how to's on the 5 axis lifestyle. i've talked to mazak and they offer no sort of hot classes or anything to get me going. any suggestions?

Thanks for the help.
AJ

[bildoo]

I have been running that exact same machine for almost 2 years now. I agree that there really is no place to turn for help and advice. Bacicly had to figure it out on my own. If you have any questions just ask me and I will try and help.

[AJCEFFA]

what kind of tooling holders do you run?? capto or shrinkfit or other?? we haven't bought any tooling yet for this machine, but we have a lot of sandvik capto style holders....so it's a lot of modular stuff that I can modify lengths and diameters pretty well. my thinking tho is that shrinkfit tool holders will also be a necessity to eliminate runout of tool and control accuracy and spindle wear. is this a accurate assumption?

[Wheelz]

As well as better balance, runout etc, shrink also allow better access as the neck is generally smaller than collet chucks.
Our Variaxis 630 5X runs to 12000rpm and therefor tooling only needs to be balanced to 15000. This brings the cost down a "little".
Our machines except 2 are all BT40. We have 2 Integrex's which are capto.
Capto are way dearer than the BT40 but as you say they are more modular and offer a little more versatility.

We use a mixture of Shrink, double contact collet, hydraulic chucks, ER Collet chucks, 3 jaw drill chucks and a very few sidelock (for special occasions).

We struggled to get a reliable 5x post processor and therefor tend to do mostly positional 5x work. I can count the number simultaneous 5x jobs I've done on one hand. Admittedly, there hasn't been the type of job that demands simultaneous and therefor doesn't warrant the risk! (flame2)

I do 3D contouring in iso with Delcam PowerMill and endeavor to do all else using mazatrol, particularly if it's a production job.
It's good having the choice.

[AJCEFFA]

At Wheelz.....
sounds like you guys have a pretty sweet setup at your shop. I like mazak, I've been running there verticals and horizontals for 4 years now. I am just a little leary if they are a solid working 5x machine for the long run...it seems like the swiss and germans have the top end equipment when it comes to 5x machining. I guess we will find out! All I know is that I am extremely excited to learn this new bad boy.:cheers:

What type of industries do you do work for there in New Zealand? I've seen those integrexes at tool shows and also at mazaks tech center, and they are some pretty awesome machines as well.

[Wheelz]

We're involved in a wide variety of industries in our shop.
We do a steady amount of componentry for a light aircraft manufacturer which is machine-from-solid.
Fisheries, marine parts (super yachts), communications. Pretty much anything that comes along.
Our plant consists of a machine shop and foundry, so we do a lot of cast and machine products.
We are part of a group of companies of which there is a plastic injection plant and a pressure die-casting plant, so our group capability is quite strong.

[bildoo]

Been running a vari-axis 730 5X-2 with cat-50 spindle 10000 rpm max and have been using mostly side lock and ER collets. I use a lot of long tool holders 6" plus. I rarely run into ballance, runout, or rigitivity problems. About the worse I have seen was using a 12" long .75" sidelock with a colbalt hog mill and I had to set the dia at .76". .005 runout and tool pressure with that tool I believe is very acceptable. 99% of what we machine is postitional 5 axis some 4 axis, but we don't have a cad cam system to run 5 axis simu. Most of my programing is done in Mazatrol and what little 3d we do I get by with BobCad. I have a 3" thick subplate with t-slots that we made and usually I workhold in Kurt 3600V vises. (no ears to get in way).

[Wheelz]

Rigidity. . . hmm...
What's that?

Our Variaxis configuration is such that any work that requires all-around machining obviously should be mounted in the center of the pallet which means that when the table's A axis is tilted at -90deg, the spindle's reach is such that the tooling needs to be a mile long to avoid over-travel in the Z axis.
Poor design in my opinion.

Fixture clamping:
For almost all of our repetitive work, we mount our fixtures on a sub-plate which is then "Ball-Locked" to the table. This makes for quick, easy and reliable swap-out of jobs. Work coordinates can be "hard-wired" into the program as location is very accurate and repeatable.

The only let-down for job swap out is the tooling. We don't seem to have the financial luxury of being able to have dedicated sets of tool holders for each job. So this means we have to break down and rebuild tooling each time.

[AJCEFFA]

Yes, I know the feeling. On our horizontals it seems like 75% of our tooling needs to be extended out a mile long. That is why I am such a fan of capto style. Good point about the A axis at 90 deg....I was setting up some tooling and a probe for it today and couldn't even touch a 6 inch tool off on the table to establish Z for calibrating my probe!

I shouldn't have any problems with 5 axis position machining...2D is 2D, no matter how the axis are positioned. I've been hearing that there is a good market for the full 5x maching tho??

[Wheelz]

Because New Zealand is a relatively small country and largely rural, we could be considered as rather isolated both from neighboring industrial cities and more so from other countries. Our manufacturing industry on a global perspective is VERY small.
We hear of these production shops overseas and our minds boggle at the scale of them. I would SO love to get around a couple of these shops and see how they do things.
We don't even get to see other shops which we would consider to be equals (ie. similar budget constraints, similar client base) and therefor we are likely to be re-inventing the wheel all time having to figure things out on our own.
We do seem to get all the awkward jobs. Probably 'cos nobody else wants them.:tired:

[AJCEFFA]

What about mounting a chuck on your pallets?? I've seen a lot of videos with a round part with a bunch of flat 2D or full out 3D work, right along with some turning. That looks like the ticket to me...it just seems pretty economical and versatile as well. Thoughts or comments???

[Wheelz]

I have a ball-locked 3 jaw chuck and ball-locked hydraulic vice on mine. Admittedly, the 3 jaw doesn't get used a lot as we have 2 Integrex's capable of doing milling on what would normally be considered turning jobs. However, the hydraulic vice is used very extensively as this is ideal for blocking and setting up mounts for further operations.

When I get back to work next week I'll endeavor to post some pics of these setups. Never know, it may give you some useful ideas.

Pete.

[Wheelz]

Here are some pics of commonly used fixtures. Probably nothing out of the ordinary but very useful none the less.
They are all either ball lock fixtures or accommodate ball lock fixtures.
(With the exception of the Center mount fixture which is mounted in the center of the pallet and allows all-round machining of smaller jobs)

[AJCEFFA]

Hey Pete, thanks for the pics. They will be very helpful! Do you guys make your fixtures and sub-plates, or do you buy them? We have a lot of fixtures like that for our verticals and horizontals, but non for the variaxis yet. We usually make that kind of stuff in house, and I keep telling the bosses that it is cheaper to just buy it already made from a distributor like Carr Lane or something than to spend the man hours making it.

Did you guys just pull the main pallets off, and machine the holes and bores for the ball locks in a different machine in the shop? In the horizontals, I'm big on keeping tombstones and fixture plates on the center of rotation of the pallet...I would imagine it is even more important for a 5x??

Hey thanks for all the help and advice to all you guys....I know it's a busy industry to be in. Much appreciated!http://www.cnczone.com/forums/images/icons/icon14.gif

[Wheelz]

The only parts we buy in are the ground ball lock plates as we don't have a grinder.
The other fixtures and tombstones are made in house as we have our own fabrication shop and I reckon it's always best, when possible, to machine this type of fixture on the machine it's going to be working on, and as you say, they've either been machined about the C.O.R. or as in the case of the Hydraulic vice, the fixed jaw is in the center of the X axis and at a known position in the Y axis.
We machine the ball lock cavities for the anchors on the machine. The ball lock kits give very good instructions and sizes for this.

Pete

[solidcamx]

http://www.cnczone.com/forums/solidc...ml#post1394948

[vivekpatel]

Hi, I'm a newbie to know about mazak, i just had purchased old mazak variaxis 730 5x, and I do not have it's installation and maintenance manual. Let me know if you can help me out here.

[Che_HTX]

Hello I ran into your reply I am curious if you know / have any procedures for hook retract we had the machine do a pallet change and got an alarm for hook retract/ imp hook half way sticking out pallet shows it clamped but if I wanted to unclamp it I can't or retract the hook in or out with holding MF1 button any advice or tips to get this fixed? thank you.

[Wheelz]

Hi, Wow! This is a blast from the past. It's been over 12yrs since I used this machine.
I will say that I did experience the same situation you are describing, but it's been so long that I honestly don't recall how I dealt with it.
I do recall that after considerable investigation, the solution was relatively straight forward by cycling through the pallet change sequence manually step by step, but that's about as much as my memory will serve me. Hopefully someone else here can give a little more detail. Best of luck.