[Wood768dGuy]

I have a NEMA34 plug 'n' play electronics system, and am using Mach4. I just bought a Huanyang HY VFD - everything is working great except the 0-10V signal doesn't get to 10V when connected to the VFD.

If I unplug the 0-10V wires from the VFD, the wires measure 0V at minimum speed command, and 10V at max speed - just as I would expect.

However, when I plug it into the VFD, when I command full speed in Mach4 (24000RPM), the terminals only measure about 8V, and the spindle only gets to about 20,400 RPM.

I have contacted AVID support, so I'll see what they say --- has anyone encountered this issue and been able to fix it themselves? Thanks.

I found a similar thread to this issue - it's not clear to me if a new board fixed it or different settings.

https://www.cnczone.com/forums/avid-...mp-play-2.html

[ger21]

Not sure what speed control AVID uses, but most speed controls have a small voltage drop at max voltage, but it's usually a little over 9V.
Most VFD's have settings to compensate, but the HY does not.

Hopefully AVID has a solution.

What I did (using UCCNC) was to set the max PWM in the software to 50% and set the Huanyang to 0-5V, and it worked well.

[Wood768dGuy]

Yea unfortunately the HY is a fixed 0-10V. If I could adjust the 10V down to 8V, this would be easily solved.

[mactec54]

Yea unfortunately the HY is a fixed 0-10V. If I could adjust the 10V down to 8V, this would be easily solved.

What is the wire / cable you are using to connect it to the VFD Drive it may not be suitable

If it is a genuine Huanyang then it has both 0-10v or 0-5v option

[Wood768dGuy]

The cable is suitable - it's AVID's OEM cable. It's 20AWG wire. This is not a voltage drop due to wire resistance. I'm not sure anyone could buy a cable with wire small enough to have that be the issue - I could be using ethernet cable w/ 26AWG wire and it would be sufficient.

My next step is to move two wires inside the AVID control box, and switch to PWM signal that their breakout board outputs.

[mactec54]

The cable is suitable - it's AVID's OEM cable. It's 20AWG wire. This is not a voltage drop due to wire resistance. I'm not sure anyone could buy a cable with wire small enough to have that be the issue - I could be using ethernet cable w/ 26AWG wire and it would be sufficient.

My next step is to move two wires inside the AVID control box, and switch to PWM signal that their breakout board outputs.

You would be surprised what wire some people use I have seen 10Gauge Romex solid core wire used so one has to ask

You can only use the PWM signal if you have a Digital to Analog converter to give you the 0-5v or 0-10v analog, output You can not connect the PWM signal direct to the VFD Drive you have

A PWM output is not normally used for VFD Drive control, you can use a regular spare output with a converter

[ger21]

Didn't realize you could adjust that with those settings. Funny that the manual says 0-400, but it allows 459.

[Wood768dGuy]

Yea I got lucky there - I had the exact same thought. I tried to program 401 Hz into PD072 before I went thru the trouble of doing this analysis...was pleasantly surprised it worked!

[mactec54]

Yea I got lucky there - I had the exact same thought. I tried to program 401 Hz into PD072 before I went thru the trouble of doing this analysis...was pleasantly surprised it worked!

Yes this means you are pushing higher Frequency into the spindle for the low voltage compensation not ideal as the spindle is only rated for 400Hz but if it lasts ok and works go for it

Some use pulley ratio adjustment in there control software and the PWM Frequency to adjust for the spindle speeds

[Wood768dGuy]

The VFD is programmed to 400 Hz max. PD005 = 400 sets the max frequency the VFD will output. The VFD never drives higher than 400 Hz.

PD072 and PD073 program the curve the selected signal (in my case 0-10V, PD070=0) the VFD uses to calculate desired output frequency from the 0-10V signal. If that calculation yields a value higher than 400Hz, the VFD will only output 400 Hz.



On your note about PWM frequency - I don't see how that would varying PWM frequency would have any affect on anything, since PWM, by definition, has a fixed frequency. If it's a variable frequency signal, then it is not a PWM signal.

[mactec54]

The VFD is programmed to 400 Hz max. PD005 = 400 sets the max frequency the VFD will output. The VFD never drives higher than 400 Hz.

PD072 and PD073 program the curve the selected signal (in my case 0-10V, PD070=0) the VFD uses to calculate desired output frequency from the 0-10V signal. If that calculation yields a value higher than 400Hz, the VFD will only output 400 Hz.



On your note about PWM frequency - I don't see how that would varying PWM frequency would have any affect on anything, since PWM, by definition, has a fixed frequency. If it's a variable frequency signal, then it is not a PWM signal.

In your control you can change the PWM output to what ever you want, unless you control has it fixed which I doubt that they have done that

The PWM depending on the Breakout Board converter changing this can change the voltage output on most boards 100 is normally 10v 50 is 5v you can usually change this number to get your 10v output or 5v which ever you want to use

Without measuring the frequency you don't really know what it is doing

PD072
PD073
Are both spindle speed control changing either numbers will change the spindle speed regardless of the PD070 voltage

I'm not sure how this will affect the VFD Drive component's in the long term, time will tell I'm sure the components have some over rating before they fail

[Wood768dGuy]

The output I am using on my BoB is 0-10VDC. It is not a PWM signal. My breakout board offers only 0-5V PWM and 0-10VDC.

I can see on the frequency display on the VFD that it never commands the above 400 HZ. I also have a photo tach that reads speed is not exceeding 24,000 RPM.

The VFD drive components are not seeing anything out of the norm b/c the voltage from my BoB to the VFD is only 0-8VDC - which is the problem I had that started this whole thread.

You can only use the PWM signal if you have a Digital to Analog converter to give you the 0-5v or 0-10v analog, output You can not connect the PWM signal direct to the VFD Drive you have

Lastly - this comment here regarding the need for a converter is flatly wrong. I connected the 0-5V PWM from my BoB directly to ACM/VI terminals on the VFD, set PD070=0 (configures input for 0-5V) and everything works perfectly fine.

For posterity should anyone stumble upon this later, this was my final solution -

PD070=1 (0-5V)
PD072=400 (Higher frequency. i.e. 5V = 400Hz)
PD073=100 (Lower frequency. i.e. 0V = 100 Hz)

Default freq. of the PWM signal by default from AVID/Warp9 is 2kHz.

[mactec54]

See this statement here: Sounds a lot like you think I'm pushing a frequency higher than the rated 400Hz.

You where: to compensate for the low voltage instead of fixing the real problem, that is what you posted you where doing

Respectfully disagree, found several other threads where others have fed a 0-5V PWM into the 0-5V input - lots of Shapeoko users, etc. This is ultimately what lead me to try it despite the fact you said it wouldn't work. The place people run into issues is if the frequency of the PWM is too low - I tested and the speed is rather unstable < 1000 Hz.

Not everyone has a Smooth Stepper where you can crank up the PWM Frequency to try and make it look like an analog signal

How long will it last with that High frequency being used the High Frequency PWM will make it look like it is similar to an analog signal only time will tell as to how long the VFD Drive will handle's this before it fails

You need to put a scope on it to see how nasty it is, and put a low pass filter on it, hats off to the manufacture if it survives it means they have compensated for it and made there VFD Drive immune to multiple options

I have an AVID CNC, which I stated in my initial post - it ships with an Ethernet Smoothstepper and pre-configured from AVID to be set up correctly to control a spindle. I did review thoroughly the settings and they are set up correctly.

But you can adjust Parameters from what the setup Parameters are to get the outputs you require

You are not the first one to have this problem with there Breakout Board, they have changed there Breakout Board for some of there customers to solve this problem


As for this post
Quote Originally Posted by mactec54
Yes this means you are pushing higher Frequency into the spindle for the low voltage compensation not ideal as the spindle is only rated for 400Hz but if it lasts ok and works go for it

Yes I could of worded that post a little better, just one word incorrect it should of been VFD Drive it is obvious by the post that it is related to the low voltage compensation which can only be changed by the VFD Drive, or in the control

[ger21]

You where: to compensate for the low voltage instead of fixing the real problem, that is what you posted you where doing

No, not if you read what he wrote.
He would have IF he was providing 10V, but he wasn't. He adjusted the VFD to get 400Hz at less than 10V.

[mactec54]

No, not if you read what he wrote.
He would have IF he was providing 10V, but he wasn't. He adjusted the VFD to get 400Hz at less than 10V.

I think there is a misunderstanding adding 459Hz to PD072 was to increase the frequency to compensate for the low voltage nothing more to it

[Wood768dGuy]

You where: to compensate for the low voltage instead of fixing the real problem, that is what you posted you where doing

No I wasn't. PD005=400 places a hard upper limit on the frequency output at 400HZ. While the VFD may have calculated a frequency greater than 400HZ based on the control voltage, it would never actually output something higher than 400HZ. Under no circumstance would the VFD output more than 400HZ.

How long will it last with that High frequency being used the High Frequency PWM will make it look like it is similar to an analog signal only time will tell as to how long the VFD Drive will handle's this before it fails

You need to put a scope on it to see how nasty it is, and put a low pass filter on it, hats off to the manufacture if it survives it means they have compensated for it and made there VFD Drive immune to multiple options

I stand by my earlier comment regarding certitude vs. accuracy.

Why anyone would do this on a $100 VFD when there are a great number of folks that have had it wired this way for years with success is beyond me. This is a solution in search of a problem.

[mactec54]

No I wasn't. PD005=400 places a hard upper limit on the frequency output at 400HZ. While the VFD may have calculated a frequency greater than 400HZ based on the control voltage, it would never actually output something higher than 400HZ. Under no circumstance would the VFD output more than 400HZ.

You have no clue what or how your VFD Drive works

PD072 has noting to do with PD005=400 you did a Graph to show us that you could use PD072 to compensate for the low voltage, I guess it did not work out for you or you would be still using it, Pos # 7 says what you hoped would work

Why anyone would do this on a $100 VFD when there are a great number of folks that have had it wired this way for years with success is beyond me. This is a solution in search of a problem.

That is totally false information you are the first here on the Zone to post with a Huanyang that you are using a PWM signal to control the speed on this VFD Drive, there is no one here been doing this for years most who have tried failed

The only reason you can use it is because of the high frequency output you have, all it is doing it is trying to fool the drive into thinking it is an analog signal

[Wood768dGuy]

You have no clue what or how your VFD Drive works

Noted, thank you. It's odd that it's functioning exactly like I want it to, I guess ignorance is bliss.

PD072 has noting to do with PD005=400 you did a Graph to show us that you could use PD072 to compensate for the low voltage, I guess it did not work out for you or you would be still using it, Pos # 7 says what you hoped would work

What I described in post #7 did work, I tested and verified - linear regression isn't rocket science. I like to tinker and wanted to see if the PWM would work since I read that many Shapeoko owners over in the Carbide3D forums use the PWM from the Shapeoko controller (7.8kHz 0-5V PWM) with the Huanyang HY model. I learned along the way that the VFD can indeed accept a PWM on the 0-5V input, and that it works best on frequencies above 1kHz. My hope is this post is insightful to someone in the future.



PD005, PD011, PD072, and PD073 can be related. See the attached chart I created to illustrate. For instance, even if PD072 is set greater than PD005, the output frequency is clipped to PD005.