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  1. #61
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    2151

    Re: pcnc440's after near 3 yrs

    Quote Originally Posted by metalmayhem View Post
    I have no idea what comes with them now , these are over 3 yrs old computers and they all have cooling fans . I'd have assumed they are still using the same or similar but I may be wrong . I opted out from getting the control for my latest mill and I'm using an hp
    Now they come with pc when machine is purchased no way to opt out that I can find.
    My last 2 machines, a 24r router and a 8l lathe both use the brix style pc. They are little 6" square units, not real fast at booting up either. But they seam to work ok.

  2. #62
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    653

    Re: pcnc440's after near 3 yrs

    Yeah, I think they standardized on the brix-type units. Fanless and convenient.

    Intel screwed the pooch several years ago when they designed a spring-loaded plastic CPU heatsink retainer. Worked ok for several years, but plastic and heat do what they do and eventually it falls off or breaks..

  3. #63

    Re: pcnc440's after near 3 yrs

    Quote Originally Posted by mountaindew View Post
    Now they come with pc when machine is purchased no way to opt out that I can find.
    .
    True on that , on the plus side the computers are much less costly than they were when I bought my first 3 mills
    I tried to opt out of the computer upon getting a quote for this last mill but they said I had to buy it . The computers were on back order I was looking at another 2 week delay . I explained that I needed the mill asap and asked them to drop the computer from the purchase , which they did .


    The stands that that fans are mounted on are pretty silly . I'm sure if this has happened to me then it's had to have happened to others . I can only imagine how long these have been in that state

  4. #64

    Re: pcnc440's after near 3 yrs

    fortunately there isn't anything critical around where the stands were mounted and there are holes in those positions . I used wood screws to mount the fans back in place . It may be a cringe worthy fix but they won't be falling off again

  5. #65
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Posts
    109

    Re: pcnc440's after near 3 yrs

    I service PCs for my day job... what exactly is going on? The CPU coolers are falling off? That's a super rare thing to have happen on any PC made in the last 10-15 years unless the builder had no idea what they were doing when installing the cooler.

    Anyone have a pic of the inside of one of their new bricks?

    It's not really important but I am curious just how this could have failed and fallen off.

  6. #66

    Re: pcnc440's after near 3 yrs

    It appears that the fan stands are glued into place or something silly , and they let go . I've never seen this before either but 2 out of 3 computers dropped their fans . The screws will keep them in place and I'm just going to replace them all soon , they've done their job and it's time to put them down

  7. #67

    Re: pcnc440's after near 3 yrs

    blew a spindle drive last week which was a drag but I had a spare on hand . Must have been from vibration because it will work temporarily if I smack it , I can see a spark from inside when it does kick on . I'll have to do a search and re-solder by the looks of it .

    I'm going to be setting up rotaries soon enough and I'm doing some preparation ahead of time . I've attached some recently modified code that I saved from a haas production program that I did a few years ago .

    It makes it so a guy can rotate the part across the x in a 3 axis cam program , and create toolpaths based on the position of the model and not have to take into account fixturing or what not . Ultimately it's program butchery but it makes a much leaner program especially for multiple parts . Each rotation is calculated in sub #7777 to g52 shift yz zero . It means that 1 work zero is needed typically starting at a0.

    For the most part the program should be self explanatory , and the sub routines are for test purposes and are to be filled in with the proper code when the time comes . The g52 on the x is in a case where multiple parts are being made . I'm sure there are many arguments for or against this type of programming and I honestly don't care , I'm just posting this in case someone can use it . Keep in mind that this is a mod from a program that I've used many times , everything seems to jive but it hasn't been run in real time , so bare that in mind . Also keep in mind that proper z clearances need to be added in order not to crash on a rotation
    Attached Files Attached Files

  8. #68
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    42
    Quote Originally Posted by metalmayhem View Post
    blew a spindle drive last week which was a drag but I had a spare on hand . Must have been from vibration because it will work temporarily if I smack it , I can see a spark from inside when it does kick on . I'll have to do a search and re-solder by the looks of it .

    I'm going to be setting up rotaries soon enough and I'm doing some preparation ahead of time . I've attached some recently modified code that I saved from a haas production program that I did a few years ago .

    It makes it so a guy can rotate the part across the x in a 3 axis cam program , and create toolpaths based on the position of the model and not have to take into account fixturing or what not . Ultimately it's program butchery but it makes a much leaner program especially for multiple parts . Each rotation is calculated in sub #7777 to g52 shift yz zero . It means that 1 work zero is needed typically starting at a0.

    For the most part the program should be self explanatory , and the sub routines are for test purposes and are to be filled in with the proper code when the time comes . The g52 on the x is in a case where multiple parts are being made . I'm sure there are many arguments for or against this type of programming and I honestly don't care , I'm just posting this in case someone can use it . Keep in mind that this is a mod from a program that I've used many times , everything seems to jive but it hasn't been run in real time , so bare that in mind . Also keep in mind that proper z clearances need to be added in order not to crash on a rotation
    G52 isn't in Tormach's documentation, but does appear to be in LinuxCNCs documentation, so maybe it'll behave?

  9. #69

    Re: pcnc440's after near 3 yrs

    g52 works with pathpilot . I talked to one of the support guys over the phone before I bought my mills and he said g52 wasn't supported . After getting the mills the first codes I tried were g52 and it functions as it should . I've got a few programs that I run which use g52
    As far as my above coding working with pathpilot it's looking good in simulation , but I haven't tried it on the mill in real life yet . It's modified from a proven program which ran fine on a hass , so it should do well on the tormach

  10. #70

    Re: pcnc440's after near 3 yrs

    now I'm close to yr 4 on three of these mills and they are still running strong . (aside from replacing a few parts as previously mentioned ) . Each mill has needed something done , be it simple gibs adjustment , steppers or spindle drive . Under the circumstances the repairs are very minimal and these things would last the weekend warrior a lifetime . I still hate the placement of the limit switches but thats the only functional complaint I have .

    A couple days ago I adjusted the x and y gibs on one mill and another one needs a slight adjustment as well . In this time it's only been twice I've needed to adjust both machines . The other is still factory set as is the new one I bought last year . The slides themselves show zero wear and I'm genuinely surprised for the amount of time on them . I originally figured that I'd be replacing them by yr 5 or 6 , based on what I see they'll survive another 10 with some eventual part replacements . I consider it pretty good for the thousands of hours these mills have seen . Changing the x ballscrews is my only mod and a worth while one , 11.5" of travel is the most I'll ever need for my parts

    For comparison , in the same period of time my torus pro has had me wanting to take a cutting torch to it many times . It may sound like an exaggeration except thats the way I deal with things like that . I don't like tinkering , down time , or being covered in porcupine needle like chips while doing machine repairs . It's been doing ok for a while now so it'll survive a bit longer lol

    Being used as production machines they get the job done well . Over time I've seen a lot said in regards to "production mills" ,and in my opinion unless they are connected to multi pallet cell systems which feed numerous horizontals lights out with tool breakage detection etc , then the reality is that a single table machine is not a "production machine" no matter what brand or quality it is . Doesn't mean it can't be done though . My competitors are using haas at the bare minimum , and their overhead far exceeds mine . Bigger better faster obviously has it's advantages over these which I still look at as toys , bigger better also have their disadvantages in a small shop . In the end tormach won't stand up to the more quality machines , but , with the right parts and know how they pay for themselves in a couple months . I think most of the competition would freak out to know I was originally putting a hurt on them with a converted g0704 and x2 mills , I'm honestly still surprised that I did it . The key is the right parts , a guy always has to have a machine and tooling to match the parts , or at least have the experience to make it work
    Reason for saying this is encouragement , because another online forum seems to have guys who with their single or few haas mills thumb their nose up at anyone using anything less , or at least they used to I no longer go on that forum .

    Tormach seems to be all over the place with their pricing , the 440 is still well worth the dollar even with the rise in cost . When I bought the first 3 the computer was optional , the last one it was mandatory and now it's back to optional . Optional is best since a much better computer can be had for less .

  11. #71

    Re: pcnc440's after near 3 yrs

    A mishap on one mill lead to it running the y axis nut right off the screw . The switch crapped out which allowed the axis to travel past the stop in the + direction , it also tore and destroyed the rear bellow . Normally the y axis should have been stopped by the compression of the front bellow , except I removed the screws on the front of the bellows , reason being that tormach left very little room and it takes very few chips to jam the axis while running jobs . On the plus side I had the old x screw assembly which was replaced with a longer one and now both axis have extra long ballscrews .
    The ballnut bolts are a bit tight to get to but overall it was a fairly quick and easy repair .

    Same day my torus had the x axis stall near the end of a run . After doing some wire checks for tightness I pulled off the motor connector and it was a bit burnt at one of the pins . A new connector and it is good again

    Aside from minimal repairs and adjustments here and there these 440 mills keep chugging along .

  12. #72
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Posts
    1777

    Re: pcnc440's after near 3 yrs

    I have an 1100 s3 a bit over 10 years old and have replaced all three of the stepper driver connectors for the same reason.
    mike sr

  13. #73

    Re: pcnc440's after near 3 yrs

    I checked the other connectors and the z axis is a bit discolored so I'll have to change that connector before it causes a problem . I suppose it's a good thing to check every so often for a maintenance check

  14. #74

    Re: pcnc440's after near 3 yrs

    Way covers have been breaking down over time and use . The 3 old mills are finally going to see some new covers once they get here . One spindle lock is nearly shot and it's time for that to be replaced as well . Not bad for the amount of tool changes these mills have seen . I've also rerouted my oilers for easier access and to keep them clear of coolant and chips

    I figured that by now the mills would show signs of wear on the dovetails but nope , they are good and they've been adjusted a couple times over the years . I originally hoped to get 10 yrs out of these but I expected they'd be finished in 5 or in need of major repairs . Aside from a few issues they keep going

    One complaint I have is that the slides are crammed when the y axis is at it's limits . This has an ill effect if there are chips on the covers because it can either restrict the travel or exert enough force on the covers to push them out of the dovetails . I should improve my housekeeping but instead I'm considering adding pumps to continuously flush and keep the slides clean .

  15. #75

    Re: pcnc440's after near 3 yrs

    it's beyond me why tormach would break a small order into 2 shipments over the last 3 days . It's not the first time and ups is going to double down on brokerage again

  16. #76

    Re: pcnc440's after near 3 yrs

    Going on to the 5 yr point with these mills and they just keep running . The price has gone up considerably since my first purchase and the price gap between the 440 and 770 is getting smaller which I can see the 770 becoming more desirable for bang for the buck . Regardless I still have no regrets .

    I recently thought one mill was going to be needing a new spindle motor . The lack of power at the tool was increasingly noticeable and I was prepared to run it to it's death before purchasing a new motor . After a few days of running weak the mill tripped into estop mode and there was nothing that was going to pull it out of that mode . I did some inspecting of the wires and the ribbon cable at the db connection was coming apart from the connector .
    This immediately resolved the estop issue , and it also resolved the spindle motor issue . The motor never failed to reach full rpm but it obviously had an broken signal which was causing it to bog on cuts .
    I really don't like the silly plastic plates they use to mount the db connector on the mills . I broke one a couple yrs ago and bought a few steel plates to replace them on all the mills , this was a reminder of a necessary chore that I had put off

    So far the replacement of parts is still minimal , the newest mill from a couple years ago has required no work to it , except , for the ballscrew replacement to extend the x travel . All the mills are still running the original belts which I never would have expected .
    My plans of buying another mill or 2 is on the back burner . I've come to the realization that keeping 6 mills running smoothly is my limit . It becomes a bit much to stay focused especially when hand bombing tools all day . One thing for certain is it is nice to just keep them running vs running while tweaking , and repairing them as I did with my retrofits

    My torus on the other hand was caught at a good time to prevent a possible fire . Last month I was running my lathes and I saw arcing from the corner of my eye . The y axis wires were arcing , lit up and burning fast . Something bad happened at the connections . I cut out the burnt chunk , reconnected the stepper and all is good .
    It's fortunate I was there to catch it because it was burning up fast . This brought me back to another thing I put on the back burner - automated extinguishers over each machine . It may not save a mill that lights up but it should save my shop .

  17. #77

    Re: pcnc440's after near 3 yrs

    Got half way through a job yesterday , did a tool changed , hit cycle start and no spindle movement . The driver is stone dead . This will be the second driver I've bought with the 1st one being replaced on another mill . I went through the fuses , checked all the wiring then connected a light to the power wires to the driver which lit up .
    It's a cringe worthy moment because the parts are not on the site and I never get an answer from sales every time I need parts like this , I always have to go through other channels at tormach . Anyhow I can see the mill being down for a couple weeks

    All the slide covers I replaced on my mills were pretty much a waste of time and money , most of the new covers fit tight and bind up and they are basically nearing the same state as the ones I replaced . I bought some rolls of rubber and over the summer each mill will be cleaned up , stripped down , readjusted then , then fitted with rubber over the covers as added protection . I've done the back side of the y on 2 mills with neoprene as a test and it helps to keep those areas clear of chips .
    Aside from a few hiccups here and there I still love these lil toys .

    I've been gathering pieces to build an automatic fire suppression setup . I'll be buying 5 gal buckets of abc chem which will be under pressure in pig air tanks . I've got sprinkler nozzles which are set to 65 degrees celsius and I still need to get the piping . I have enough extra heads to see if my compressor maxed out can pop the vile , if not , then the next test will be actual fire tests to make sure my idea works . There are similar styles already available but trying to order some to here in Canada seems to be impossible
    It won't be ideal and a fire inspector would immediately shoot it down , but with monitoring it'll be better than what I have now . I'd like to have one of those restaurant style setups but they are a serious chunk of change

  18. #78

    Re: pcnc440's after near 3 yrs

    I love pathpilot but it's buggy to boot sometimes . It'll boot to the splash screen then stay stuck . It doesn't happen very often (maybe 6 months or so) and it's random which machine it will be when it does happen .
    I just had my mills shut down for a week . They all fired up fine today except one . It booted into pathpilot but the y axis motor wasn't turning , after a bit it decided to move so I could home it in . I loaded a program and noticed it wouldn't display ,I tried a few other programs and got the same . I then hit cycle start to see what would happen , nothing , didn't work . I rebooted and got hung up on the splash screen , reboot , reboot and still hung up on the splash screen .

    What gets me out of this bind most times is to start the factory reset when it first boots , I run it til it says the files on the disk will be erased " do you want to proceed " , I'll click no then reboot . It worked again this time and the mill and pathpilot ran fine
    80% of the time this works without losing everything . I'm not sure what is the driving factor behind this but it does something . I figured this out when I chickened out the first time this happened and I decided to do some kind of file recovery before doing the reinstall . Anyhow , after chickening out and the reboot it was good , so I try this first every time this happens

    I've never seen a solution to this problem so I figured I'd post this if it may help someone else . It doesn't work every time but it saves a headache when it does work

  19. #79
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Posts
    1777

    Re: pcnc440's after near 3 yrs

    Sounds like it may be the computer, I have had my 1100 s3 for over 11 years and no problems with pathpilot booting up. It had the large tower computer though, I changed it to a Dell 7010 which is a smaller one but it does have a fan in it and so far no problems with it about 3 years now.
    mike sr

  20. #80

    Re: pcnc440's after near 3 yrs

    I wish that was the case .
    it's happened on 4 out of 5 mills , 3 have towers that were supplied by tormach , 2 have hp elites . I'm up well over half dozen times of this happening and it goes back to when my mills were fairly new . It hasn't been a huge problem but it's a pita when it does happen

    It seems something gets corrupted . The computer the other day seemed to boot up fine and I homed z and x without a hitch . Y axis on the other hand wouldn't move for nearly 5 minutes though the digits on the screen said different , then it suddenly started moving on command and went home when I pressed the button .

    It was the not loading the programs properly when I realized there was a problem with pathpilot and rebooted . That reboot is where it got hung up on the splash screen . Once I did the recovery trick it booted up perfectly fine and ran long runs without a problem . I expect it to happen again at some point but that could be in months , a year , or 2 . I honestly don't see a reason for this to happen , and it's random when it does and it could be any one of my mills .
    It's happened similar in other circumstances , and other times I simply shut down the computer on a well running mill , and it didn't want to boot the next time i fired up

    I've done a lot of looking around online and can't find any reasoning behind it . I know I'm not alone in this but no one has a solution . It could possibly be the fact that I still run older versions v2.16 and 2.15 . What I need to do in the near future is set the computers to boot into the os and open pathpilot from there , at least then I can be sure to recover my files and setting

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