[dazp1976]

Hi. Looking foe clarity on this. Will be used on a spindle.

My servo drive has DB44 connection with 7 outputs and 8 inputs for faults and controls (aside from the 0-10v and communication port etc).
These are shown in the manual connected via switches / relays / opto etc. Some will be direct connection to BOB.

Question is: That is a lot of messy relays. A smaller optocoupler I/O module would do the job... Yes?
Thinking along the lines of an opto for all the fault outputs connected out to a single SSR for E-stop?

I'd prob only need 2 of the inputs (on/off & CW/CCW) so a couple of relays won't hurt too much.

Cheers.
Daz.

[joeavaerage]

Hi,
post the manual of the driver so we can see how the manufacturer has arranged the IO.

Most modern servo drives have opto-isolators on the inputs already. Most outputs are open collector transistors but they
are photo-transisitors themselves.

Craig

[dazp1976]

Hi,
post the manual of the driver so we can see how the manufacturer has arranged the IO.

Most modern servo drives have opto-isolators on the inputs already. Most outputs are open collector transistors but they
are photo-transisitors themselves.

Craig

Here you go Craig.
http://servo.xlichuan.com/Private/Pr...6713131150.pdf
Has opto built in and shows I can use either opto or relay as fault triggers.
Just trying to work out the neatest and most efficient way of hooking it up.
The 8 chnl opo board I have lying around looks nice and compact, compared to ugly relays.

Have it all set up on test bench (lounge floor) with relay boards atm ready for testing on spare pc.

For inputs I'll prob only need 3, with peramiters of 0,1 & 7. ie: SRV_ON / ALM_CLR / CW_CCW. These can come direct from BOB.
The other inputs I could prob disable. Yes?
(Apart from the 0-10v / GND inputs of course)

I'm actually all wired up to use 'enable' on my stepper drives which comes from pin 14 on my bob. Estop disables them, then re-enables them with mach reset.
I'm thinking the servo ALM_CLR function can be taken from there to a timed relay that turns itself off after a few seconds when reset is hit.
(unless you have a good alternative).

Daz.

[mactec54]

Here you go Craig.
http://servo.xlichuan.com/Private/Pr...6713131150.pdf
Has opto built in and shows I can use either opto or relay as fault triggers.
Just trying to work out the neatest and most efficient way of hooking it up.
The 8 chnl opo board I have lying around looks nice and compact, compared to ugly relays.

Have it all set up on test bench (lounge floor) with relay boards atm ready for testing on spare pc.

For inputs I'll prob only need 3, with peramiters of 0,1 & 7. ie: SRV_ON / ALM_CLR / CW_CCW. These can come direct from BOB.
The other inputs I could prob disable. Yes?
(Apart from the 0-10v / GND inputs of course)

I'm actually all wired up to use 'enable' on my stepper drives which comes from pin 14 on my bob. Estop disables them, then re-enables them with mach reset.
I'm thinking the servo ALM_CLR function can be taken from there to a timed relay that turns itself off after a few seconds when reset is hit.
(unless you have a good alternative).

Daz.

You don't have to make this complicated you can use Step /Dir for this also for your spindle control

[joeavaerage]

Hi,
I don't know enough about UCCNC and the UC series of motion ccontrol boards to comment.

I do know that ger21, a very widely respected CNCer and supporter of this forum swears by UCCNC and that is a good reccomendation.

I use Mach4 and an ESS. I can assign inputs and outputs within the structure normally associated with paralell ports. For example I have
set my ESS this way:

Port1:
pin 1output
pins 2-9 outputs
pins 10-13 inputs
pin 14 output
pin 15 input
pins 16-17 outputs
total:
5 inputs
12 outputs

Port2
pin1 output
pins 2-9 inputs
pins 10-13 inputs
pin 14 output
pin 15 input
pins 16-17 outputs
total
4 outputs
13 inputs

Port3:
pin1 ouput
pins 2-9 inputs
pins10-13 inputs
pin14 output
pin15 input
pins16-117 outputs
total:
4 outputs
13 inputs

TOTAL (all three ports):
20 outputs
31 inputs

You can see that I have elected to make my motion control board input dominant, but you have the flexibilty to choose to make it output dominant.

Once you start selecting breakout boards they too constrain your flexibility, you are required to follow the input/output balance supplied
by the manufacturer.

For this reason I use MB2's by Homann Designs in Australia., not to be confused with the MB3 by CNCRoom of Malaysia. The reason I like
them is because they are bi-directional, do not have any opto isolators nor relays and thus I retain the best possible flexibility with regard
how I assign and use my IO. That does mean that if I want optos or relays or PWM filters I have to add them as I see fit. Given that electronics
is my thing that represents no trouble to me. Note the MB2 is almost identical to the C10, which at $23.00 is a steal. I would recommend MB2's
OR C10's if you are prepared to add a little circuitry as required.

If you don't want to do any electronics then consider the MB3 by CNCRoom. Its made specifically for the ESS, which they also sell. Your are now required to follow the
design principles of the MB3, but it is a well balanced design with respect to inputs and outputs. In particular it has 12 differential outputs which are the perfect match
for your servo drive, and any other servos you have. It has one dedicated PWM output circuit and two relay output circuits. All in all a well balanced and quality design.

I have been using Mach4 for six years with this combination and the combination has proven to be able to handle all that I throw at it, and all my imagination can
conceive.

Craig

[joeavaerage]

Hi,
on page 13 it shows that digital outputs DO0-DO4 are open collector but with the emitter of each transistor tied to the COM- of the drive.
DO5 however is a floating opto-transistor.

Neglecting DO5 for the moment if you have one wire dedicated to connect COM- of the drive to the GND or COM of your BoB then the digital outputs DO0-DO4
just become plain active low 24V tolerant outputs of your drive and active low inputs to your BoB. Unless you need to switch a load or absolutely insist on galvanic isolation
why bother with a relay?

How are you planning on driving the step/direction or alternately the CW/CCW inputs? Page 12 shows 5V differential, which is the highest speed and preferred, or
12-24V inputs with an EXTERNAL resistor, or on the top of page 13 12-24V with the BUILT-IN resistor.

You absolutely MUST decide early on how you are going to signal these inputs and be ABSOLUTELY sure you have it right or you will blow the photodiode in the drive
and wreck it.

All modern AC servo drives have very similar input/output circuits. My Delta B2 series servos have an almost indentical input arrangement. Because I need to signal my servos at 416kHz
I perforce used the differential signalling scheme. It is a twin wire +2.5/-2.5V signal and connects to the photodiode through the built-in 270 Ohm resistor only. If you make the mistake of trying to
feed 24V down there WITHOUT the benefit of the 2.2 kOhm built-in resistor or one that you supply externally you will wreck it.

this is my wiring scheme:
2 wires Step signal (5V differential)
2 wires Dir signal (5V differential)
1 wire COM- of the drive to COM- of my BoB
1 wire Servo Enable (output of BoB to opto-input SERVO-ON in the drive)
1 wire Alarm reset (output of BoB to opto-input ALRMRESET in the drive)
1 wire Alarm (ALARM output of the drive to a 24V tolerant input on my BoB)

Note that I have only one alarm output from the drive. I will in future have at least two, one will be o'heat/o'current/o'voltage, per normal but the other
will be FOLLOWING-ERROR. Having just one alarm simplifies matters when I'm still building but the alarm set-up will become more sophisticated in service.

Craig

[dazp1976]

[QUOTE=joeavaerage;2446642]Hi,
/QUOTE]

Hi.

If I was using the stp/dir inputs I'd be using 5v most definately.

I was planning to run this in speed mode only to start with as par page 24 diagram. I didn't think I needed to use stp/dir unless I was hybrid?.
Anyhoo the jist I got was.
Pins 41,42- for rpm 0-10v / gnd
DIO for servo on switch
DI1 for alm clr relay
DI5 for direction command (modified onto DI2, or not). CW / CCW controlled from bob to relay with NC = CW, NO = CCW (or vice versa).

Then the DO 0-5 wherever they're going.


Bitten off more than I can chew with a servo maybe!.

Daz.

[joeavaerage]

Hi,
you can run a servo as a free running motor in two ways.

One way is to use velocity mode of the servo and control the speed with a 0-10VDC signal, which you can reverse by a DPDT relay.
It seems that is your preferred method.

You could also use Step/Direction, or its close analogues CW/CCW or quadrature. These methods require pulse signaling,
and often at pulse speeds that mandate differential signaling. The advantage of this strategy is that you have position control of your spindle
which may help with tool changing , spindle indexing and rigid tapping.

I have a second hand 1.8kW Allen Bradley servo as a spindle motor and I use both methods.

Most modern AC servos, which certainly includes my Allen Bradley (circa 2005) and my new Delta servos, have dual mode capability, and I believe
if you read your manual you would find your servo capable of dual mode also.

If you program the drive to be dual mode you would chose velocity/position mode. Which mode is active is determined by a single digital input to the
drive from your BoB. In position mode you would signal Step/Dir (or one of its analogues) and in velocity mode your BoB would supply a 0-10VDC signal for speed.

You can have Mach4 run a Step/Dir spindle as a free running motor, but it's not it's normal or native operation. Mach4 is natively a PWM output to control spindle
speed. For this reason I set my spindle motor to be primarily PWM speed controlled but when I need to do some rigid tapping say, then I assert position
mode and so my spindle becomes in effect a C axis. In practice I very seldom use the spindle as a C axis, and if I were starting from scratch I would not bother with
it. Its not that its particularly hard to do but if this is your first foray into servos then setting simpler goals at the start are likely to result in a more satisfying experience.

Both the Allen Bradley and Delta servos have very good manufacturer written set-up and tuning software that allow you to use a PC to program the firmware of
the drive. I do not know if Lichuan servos have such software....but you really must get it if they have it. Programming a servo drive by pushing buttons on the drive
like a microwave is very tedious and error prone. There are hundreds of tuning parameters...and most of them need not concern you....but some concern you greatly
and you must use them to your best advantage. Tuning software really really helps.

I suggest you consider these questions:
1) Do I require position control of the spindle or just want it?
2) If I want it, am I prepared for the extra complexity....or would I wait until I've got more
'normal' operations in hand and then worry about position control?
3) Position control requires pulse signaling, so would I go dual mode or would I stick to Step/Direction (or one of its analogues) and induce my
control software to provide a free running Step signal?

Craig

[dazp1976]

Hi,
you can run a servo as a free running motor in two ways.

One way is to use velocity mode of the servo and control the speed with a 0-10VDC signal, which you can reverse by a DPDT relay.
It seems that is your preferred method.

Both the Allen Bradley and Delta servos have very good manufacturer written set-up and tuning software that allow you to use a PC to program the firmware of
the drive. I do not know if Lichuan servos have such software....but you really must get it if they have it. Programming a servo drive by pushing buttons on the drive
like a microwave is very tedious and error prone. There are hundreds of tuning parameters...and most of them need not concern you....but some concern you greatly
and you must use them to your best advantage. Tuning software really really helps.

2) wait until I've got more
'normal' operations in hand and then worry about position control?

Craig

Thanks Craig.
Yes I'll keep it simple unless I need to venture out in years to come.
So I guess I'm about right in my previous comment regarding wiring of velocity mode (speed mode in my case)?.

I did purchase the serial RS485 - RJ45 data line and software set. On their way. I didn't fancy going through the buttons process.
Mind you even then I need to remember to short between pins 33-34 by the look of it. Jeez.

Sounds like I ccould control a few of these drives through the CN1/CN2 links, only shorting the last servo in the chain.
That could be interesting

[dazp1976]

I suggest you consider these questions:
1) Do I require position control of the spindle or just want it?
2) If I want it, am I prepared for the extra complexity....or would I wait until I've got more
'normal' operations in hand and then worry about position control?
3) Position control requires pulse signaling, so would I go dual mode or would I stick to Step/Direction (or one of its analogues) and induce my
control software to provide a free running Step signal?

Craig

So far.
I've wired the drive up to the mains, breaker, filter, 4mm2 cable, connected the motor and the jog tests went good. So it works on it's own.

I've wired all the I/0 to some 8 way relay modules for now (with onboard opto and hi/lo jumpers) 1 of 5v and 1 of 24v to a DB44 screw teminal block.
Found a little rocker switch to use for servo on/off.
Mach 3 test PC and 5 axis bob with onboard 0-10v.
A 5v and 24v power supply.

I think I've gone through the wiring a dozen times and still too scared to try it!

In the meantime. I've ordered a new control box deep enought to fit it, and everything else into.
And also ordered:
A 72v psu for my Z.
A larger 60v psu for my x,y, (to space save).
And put in a quote for UC300eth, 2*UCBB boards, UCCNC lic, and a load of cabling.
The 2 plain IDC26 (inputs) and ID16 (analogue) terminal blocks Ill get from aliexpress.

Daz.

Oh and. I think I can wire the error outputs directly to the UCBB inpts and program UCCNC shortcuts to either estop and/or feedhold options, so no need for messy relays and things then. Correct?.

Daz.

[dazp1976]

Hi,
you can run a servo as a free running motor in two ways.

I suggest you consider these questions:
1) Do I require position control of the spindle or just want it?
2) If I want it, am I prepared for the extra complexity....or would I wait until I've got more
'normal' operations in hand and then worry about position control?
3) Position control requires pulse signaling, so would I go dual mode or would I stick to Step/Direction (or one of its analogues) and induce my
control software to provide a free running Step signal?

Craig

Hi guys. Thanks for all the info.
I've been doing a lot of instruction manual reading (not normally the man thing to do lol)

So. For basics:
1. I assumed step/direction control would lose me an axis, I don't, I'm a dumbass, nuff said.

2. It's a 2500ppr encoder, quick calculations suggest at least 150khz needed so bye bye parport and hello UC300eth. I feel the 400eth is a bit port limited, especially if I end up with 5 axis and a tool changer (unlikely but I wish). I did look at the Pokeys57 but I wasn't convinced with support and being mach limited.

3. Thinking of putting it in hybrid pos/spd mode and wiring it both ways step/dir on 5V, analogue 0-10v, DI/DO on 24v. I can then switch between the 2 depending on application or whichever is more accurate. YES?

4. Will fit a small button control attached to machine enclosure for srv on/off and reset. Software will be in estop unless servo is enabled/on.

5. UCCNC looks pretty good on paper. 300eth gives me the option of uccnc, mach 3 or mach 4.
Am going to partition my PC into a triple boot using win7 (I hate 10!). Trial all 3 on their own partitions to avoid conflicts and go with the one I like.

What's best for PC communication via LAN controller. Is the onboard fine or should I go with aa pci card?.

Thanks.
Daz.

[mactec54]

Hi guys. Thanks for all the info.
I've been doing a lot of instruction manual reading (not normally the man thing to do lol)

So. For basics:
1. I assumed step/direction control would lose me an axis, I don't, I'm a dumbass, nuff said.

2. It's a 2500ppr encoder, quick calculations suggest at least 150khz needed so bye bye parport and hello UC300eth. I feel the 400eth is a bit port limited, especially if I end up with 5 axis and a tool changer (unlikely but I wish). I did look at the Pokeys57 but I wasn't convinced with support and being mach limited.

3. Thinking of putting it in hybrid pos/spd mode and wiring it both ways step/dir on 5V, analogue 0-10v, DI/DO on 24v. I can then switch between the 2 depending on application or whichever is more accurate. YES?

4. Will fit a small button control attached to machine enclosure for srv on/off and reset. Software will be in estop unless servo is enabled/on.

5. UCCNC looks pretty good on paper. 300eth gives me the option of uccnc, mach 3 or mach 4.
Am going to partition my PC into a triple boot using win7 (I hate 10!). Trial all 3 on their own partitions to avoid conflicts and go with the one I like.

What's best for PC communication via LAN controller. Is the onboard fine or should I go with aa pci card?.

Thanks.
Daz.

Why waste your time both ways will have the same accuracy, is your Encoder incremental or absolute

[dazp1976]

Gawd dam it.
What am I missing?.
Most of it's working fine, The DI side, Servo on relay switch, reset, direction changes CW/CCW, Estop.
Analog 0-10v the rpm gain is now spot on. Mach runs it all perfectly.

When it comes to the D0 outputs, nothing seems to trigger regardless. Simulated a couple of faults like the main power disconnect and encoder unplugged but it changes nothing.
Any deas?

All wired exactly as per the diagram. Relays are all module types with opto's and high/low jumpers.
Output relays are set as high triggers as the D0 (supposedly) emits +ve voltage.

[joeavaerage]

Hi,
if your servos are anything like my Delta servos then a DO must be 'logically connected' to an alarm.
That is there are eight parameters in the drive that attach each of the eight DO's to a condition.

Craig

[dazp1976]

On another note Craig.
I've been dithering over a UC300ETH with 2x UCBB boards and switching to UCCNC.
Had a brief read and as far as I can tell I can assign various different functions to the pins.

So for example I could direct connect the servo fault outputs to some inputs on the UCBB and assign all their pins to the same 'Estopin' (function 91 I think).
Thus eliminating the need for any relays / opto etc.
Is this correct?

If so.... I'm sold.

Got some reading to do lol.

Daz.

[dazp1976]

Well. I made the decision.

Ordered the UC300 + 2* UCBB boards + UCCNC lic, and all needed ribbon cable from CNCdrive.
Got a couple of standard screw terminal header boards coming from aliexpr too for IDC26, IDC16 & Dsub15.
The deeper control box I got fits the servo drive so I can get everything in there.
However. With all these bloody circuits, connectors, relays etc it looks like I'll have to stack boards. That's a pain.
I don't really need it all in there but I thought, future proof it so I never have to take it apart again (unless there's a failure).




The missus better not look up how much this 'hobby' costs!!!

[dazp1976]

I'll prob just have to go with it in the end. Sit and babysit the damn thing in case it needs an estop triggered by hand Ugh!.

[joeavaerage]

Hi,
I was of the opinion the DO's were opto-transistor outputs, that is to say they are neither high or low until or unless you apply power,
so are rather either conducting or non-conducting.

Craig

[dazp1976]

Hi,
I was of the opinion the DO's were opto-transistor outputs, that is to say they are neither high or low until or unless you apply power,
so are rather either conducting or non-conducting.

Craig

That's what I'm thinking. Don't know much about transistors at all.
I was actually leaning towards them being wired like this internally in the dia below.
Using CMOS gates but they're not getting +ve power for some reason.
https://www.cnczone.com/forums/attac...d=464362&stc=1
I'm definately fishing now. Out of my depth. It was going so well too. (nuts)
If I apply my own power to it wouldn't I just set off the relay switch permanently?.

[dazp1976]

Hi,
I was of the opinion the DO's were opto-transistor outputs, that is to say they are neither high or low until or unless you apply power,
so are rather either conducting or non-conducting.

Craig

Hi Craig.
You can shake your head iat this one if you wish!
Solved!!!

Spent hours last night wiring everything into the UCBB board.
Put the servo outputs directly into the boards inputs.
Fired up the servo and voila. 'servo ready' and 'zero spd' opto's lit up.
So when it's ready it's NC connection, when it's not it's NO.
This is actually perfect for wiring directly into estop.

I did a little test by pulling the main power out and leaving control power in.
Opto's did not light up indicating a problem and servo was 'not ready'. Perfecto.

Here was my problem all along:
I got together all of the various modules I'd been trying out and my probes.
I had a good look over the 8 chnl relay module I initially had the outputs connected to.
Had a eureka! moment.
Right. So I have the +/- vcc's into module power input. Servo ready connected to trigger 1.
If I follow the circuit backwards it goes GND- through the servo output- relay trigger- vcc+ of module to complete the circuit.

That's actually a low/gnd trigger...............
I had the jumper on my relay module set to HIGH. Thus resulting in an incomplete circuit.
That's all it was!!!!!! omg!

Thank you for all your help on this Craig. It was you mentioning 'sinking to ground' that put me onto all this.
Also mentioning the DMM servo's. The wiring diagram on that was more explanatory.

I now have a fully functional system and had 0 accidents due to your help.
You're right about equipment being made somwhat easy to hook up these days (now that I've figured out where I went wrong).

Have to transplant everything into a new control box next. Ugh!