[Calico]

I'm looking for a machine to make a 3D carbon fiber weaving.
I'm looking fot the Info of how to make it !
and I'm looking for that machine, how do they do it ?

the project is how to make a Joint "T" or "V" of say a bicycle made of carbon fiber, of course you have to make the 3D weaving for the fiber.

does anyone has this info for the machine ?
anything ?

cal

[chrbau]

As I understand it so far there's very little weaving going on to make simple things like bicycle frames. You can wrap the T-joint with several layers of carbon. You might want to buy this:
http://goliath.ecnext.com/coms2/summ...99-5505351_ITM
or contact:
http://news.ulster.ac.uk/releases/2006/2124.html
for information on research done on making more complex parts like airplanes.

[Jbradym]

opps! I'll try again. Sorry.

[Jbradym]

Cal,
For those specific shapes I would think a simple form and vaccuum bag would do. Are you going into production with these parts? Some of the manufacurers will make you custom shapes if the runs are long enough. Check out this guy, I used to work for him and he is a true Composite GOD!
He will know how to help you if anyone can. http://www.swcp.com/~kee/HOME.HTM
good luck

[Calico]

ok, I got the email of the person you called God, I hope he will answer my questions and help.

thank you guys....

looks like this 3D woven thing is very rare to get any info on the net.

cal

[Calico]

oops, I just received the bounce email..

too bad

anyone has any info ?

regards
cal

[pointcloud]

A weaving machine will be in the millions of $'s? Would you need miles of cloth per day?

If you just want to make a little, I would suggest a small cotton cloth weaving loom.. Last one I had was $12,000..

You'd be better off buying the finished cloth.. Try here.. www.fiberglast.com

[3DWeaver]

Hello Calico!
I suggest you visit www.biteam.com
Its the only 3D-weaving company. They can produce a variety of profiles, including T and V, using carbon and other fibres.
Good luck.
- 3DWeaver

[Calico]

Thank you 3dWeaver,
actually that's the only site that I find close... but I still can not find how the machine can do that.
Looks like it's a top secret !

anyway... how about creating a joint T or V with the manual way but profesionally ?
I'm thinking of making a Mold system but the carbon fiber will give a smooth, factory quality presult ?

any video/photo/how to do that ?
I saw some DIY photos but the quality is not as good as I'm looking for.
I have CNC machine that can create the Molding for this.
I just need some photo, info specially how you apply the carbon fiber sheet to the T or V joint like factory quality.
for example a bicycle joint, with hollow inside.

I've been searching this with google, youtube, etc, but could not find the detail info I want.

3Dweaver, I believe you can help me with your knowledge (judging by your nick name)

Cal

[Jbradym]

I could be wrong,
But I think what you are trying to accomplish should be spun on a mandrel.
By "V joint" do you mean an intersection like with tubing? The website I sent you to has pictures of a Carbon Bicycle. That bicycle frame (as I recall) was built as two pieces. The halfs are seamed at centerline. All you need is one layer to establish your shape and subsiquint layers to bond the seams.
I hope that helps?
Its hard to engineer something when you don't know what it is you're engineering
If I am way off I'll shut up..

[Calico]

Jbradym,
pls don't "shut up", I need help from the expert.
ok, that bicycle is seemed, what I need is seemless, meaning I need to joint tubing with one go, not half and half.
that's why I though I need the 3D weaving, but it turn out tooooo complex for me, even I have CNC machine to create a mold, but that got to do with the making of 3D weaving.

back again on the bicycle project, they are using 2 molds right ? the cloth is not seemless, because they cut in to half and put it together. right ?
that's what I'm trying to avoid. specially "pipe" joint frame.

my question on this ....
what's is the other way to make the joint tubing with "seemless" ?

cal

[Jbradym]

Calico,
The only other way that I know of, is to do it on mandrels. Your mandrels can be anything (steel tubing, wood dowls, inflateable shapes, or anything) that you can apply release agent to.
let's take the "T Joint " for example.
The steel tubing would be neatly fitted to the shape you want. The vertical leg would be coped to fit the top leg. You can use packing tape or hot glue to secure the mandrels together. Then wrap the shape with layers of tape or cloth untill you have the thickness and coverage you want and then remove the mandrels after it cures.
Removing the mandrels can be tricky, so be sure to use plenty of release agent. I have sucessfully used this technic on several projects. If you use wax as a release agent heat can help in removing the mandrel.
If your shape is more complicated think about using inflatable mandrels. Immagine laying composites over a balloon animal. the mandrel is then deflated and removed or left in place.
Also you can do a sort of investment casting method. this is considerably more time consuming but the results are good. Start with a wax model of the shape you want. cover the model in plaster of paris. Heat and melt out the wax. Lay up your composites. fracture plaster and remove. Obviously you will have to control the thicknesses of the wax model and the plaster so that you finished Part is the finished dimension you want. I know alot of people will think that last one is crazy but Beoing uses a similar technic to make the ventalation ducts for their air planes that way. You could also just use the wax model to lay up on? But the could make a mess in your Autoclave.
Also Cardboard or paper tubes make good mandrels if you don't mind leaving them inside the part.
Does that help some?

[skippy]

I did have a video of a company in the UK that makes carbon fibre pressure vessels predominantly for the motor racing industry (F1, etc.) using a 3D weaving machine. Last time my hard drive went down I lost the video but basically they were using very thin walled, spun aluminium mandrels and because the shapes are closed, the mandrel therefore doesn't get thrown away but instead stays within the shape formed by the carbon fibre. They were using a very fine flat ribbon of carbon fibre which runs through a resin bath prior to being wrapped around the mandrel (in a woven manner) by the weaving machine. The weaving machine in this case looked like a lathe and rotated the product (in the way a lathe normally does) and it had an external arm which moved all over the place via servos in order to lay the ribbon in a woven manner on a mandrel with various conical angles. The maths involved to generate the weave path in order to produce a strong product were incredible and this followed by subsequent pressure testing to failure point.
Final conclusion?.... Way out of our league!

[Calico]

Jbradym,
thank you for the detail explanation of mandrels and others.
I have understanding the idea but wondering what's the next process after that ?
how you apply the 'cloth" with seemless "joint" ?
Pictures speak a thousand words ?
I think I need a lotta photos or video for this process, excuse my english is not good, thank god I have google for words I don't understand, like "paris".
I don;t think I can get most of those chemical/composites/material like paris, wax in my country Indonesia.

btw Invesment casting is my other questions.

Skippy,
I would love to watch the video even it's beyond my league !
I saw the new Ferrari using Investment casting for the engine block.
but I just want to experiment with small size like 2 Inch or less stuff.

cal