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IndustryArena Forum > CNC Electronics > Servo Motors / Drives > Yaskawa SGDH and SGDA servo motor/drive wiring questions
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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
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    54

    Yaskawa SGDH and SGDA servo motor/drive wiring questions

    Ok.
    I have some Yaskawa SGDH (position,speed,torque control) drives and SGDA-xxxP (position control) drives and some motors.
    My questions pertain to wiring it up for use as step and direction control.
    I was doing some searching and found some stuff related to having to use a buffered breakout board. I have and Axxus DB1 V2.0 board that I was going to use, but I don't know if it is buffered.

    Buffered breakout board recommendations?

    What are the pins to wire step and direction to on the SGDH? SGDA? I've looked at the manual, but it is not very clear to me (their diagram shows CW/CCW wiring, not step+dir).

    Do I need to hook the drive up to the serial port and tweak any parameters on the drive?

    What other things are going to be needed?
    Anybody have some example wiring diagrams and pics of parallel port step & dir that work?
    Did you use AC line filtering as in their example diagram(s)?

    Good inexpensive source for cables for SGDH and SGDA drives?

    Thanks in advance for any help!
    -Ralph

  2. #2
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    Apr 2005
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    4

    yaskawa cables, connectors and details?

    I'm at the same stage with the same suppliers / parts.
    SGDH 04AE's and SGDA 08AP's and a variety motors, all yaskawa.

    btw, omron rebrands yaskawa stuff so their info is the same but the part numbers are changed ( to protect the ignorant? ) That opens a whole wealth of info that you can cross reference when you get stuck or confused, not to mention a whole bunch of compatible parts that you might not have known was available. Just be careful and double check the details.

    I'll get back into the manuals soon and go back through the step/dir stuff, as I remember it was pretty straightforward but might require some basic logic to interface the signals. Simple logic circuits are no problem to breadboard but do add a bit of complexity which would explain why not many people are using these types of drives.
    Pins 7/8 11/12 and 14/15 are paired and inverted. Its the first two pairs we need to be concerned with right?


    Tonight, as luck would have it, i was looking for that connector for the SGDH/SGDM drives and found what I THINK is the right family of connectors here:
    http://www.alliedelec.com/Search/Pro...5B6D00190BE17F

    I'm 98% sure its a micro-sub-D type connector. Both of those are the same but with different pin counts.
    I was going to go to the local dealer and order some tomorrow so once I get them in my hands I'll confirm that info.
    Do you have any details on them that might help me?

    As for the motors, they seem to use quite a few variations of connectors but the most common is a square molex type.

    If you want to buy pre-made cables, expect to pay a small fortune and have the EXACT part number to connect XXX-motor with YYY-drive (brake, no brake, incremental vs absolute encoders, variety and year of manufacture even seem to change the motor connectors etc etc )

    I'm just going to make up my own cables.

    OH.. and the encoder cable, at the bottom of the drive is just a USB connector, available at any computer cable supplier.

    As for line filtering etc, thats going to depend on your available service, how clean it is coming in, and how much you plan on pulling from it. Personally I think it would be insane to run without some kind of filtering but then again, I'm running 6 axis, all at 400 watts or more and my primary spindle is a 4 KW kollmorgen servo, plus I'm literally at the end of the line. the power line that is. I'm the very last house on the circuit and theres a metal/welding/fab shop upstream from me so my power is terrible. The UPS's on my computers kick at least a dozen times a day.

    Hope this helps, and it seems we might be able to help each other ferret out some details and get running.

    Anybody else out there been through this?
    We know its worth it.
    Expensive and tedious but worth it.
    Maybe we should just dump them on ebay and buy gecko's ?

    Thx
    Adrian

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
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    I hope all your motors match your drives!

    Mouser has all of the connectors for the SGDA. I don't have the SGDH so I haven't looked into what's needed for them. I skipped on the shells (covers) for the 3M connectors since they cost as much as the connectors. The TYCO motor connectors are going to need an open barrel crimp tool also.

    The CW and CCW can alternately be the Step and Direction signals based on how the drive is programmed. If you already have your motors you'll know whether you need 4 or 6 pin connectors for them. If you have brakes on the motors (they'll have 6 wires) you'll also need a power supply to release them. These are typically 90V for the SGD, SGDA.

    If anyone has the older SGD drives, the older SVMON software available here ftp://ftp.yaskawa.de/Public/Software...otion&Control/ supports them also. The newer versions dropped support for the SGD. You can also get SigmaWin Lite here http://www.yaskawa.com/site/dmservo....GMAWINLITE.ZIP

    Be warned that building your own cables is going to get spendy too. Have you checked the price on multiconductor shielded cable lately?

    I don't have my notes on hookups handy, they're at home. They may not apply to what you want to do anyway. You can turn off most of the limits, etc. to minimize wiring if you are going to do overtravel limits at the computer. You can also jog the drive with the SVMON software, but be aware it JUMPS to speed!

    As far as breakout boards, I don't plan to use anything buffered.

    One last note. The Gear 1, Gear 2 parameters will be very helpful in getting the step rate requirements to reasonable levels since the servo is expecting 8192 pulses from the computer per revolution of the motor if yours has 2048 PPR (line) encoders as most incrementals have on these.

  4. #4
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    Feb 2005
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    If you could look up your wiring that would be much appreciated.
    I basically want to know what the minimal wiring needs to be to get step+dir going.

    Obviously I need the encoder wired and PULS/*PULS and SIGN/*SIGN and the drive enable (24V), just wondering what other stuff I need.

    Did you use a Yaskawa JUSP breakout board, or did you just splice/wire directly?
    Most of my cables have the 1CN/2CN connectors on them, but are missing the other ends. I don't have any of the Yaskawa breakout boards.

    I do have motors that match (wattage and encoder type).

    Thanks!
    -Ralph

  5. #5
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    Nov 2005
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    I'll look tomorrow. Today was an interesting day in the Chinese sense of the expression. That and it's just started raining with lightning and the info is in my very detached garage.

  6. #6
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    Great.
    Looking forward to seeing what you have for wiring info.

    Thanks.
    -Ralph

  7. #7
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    Maybe tomorrow? Sorry, the old memory ain't what it used to be, but then it never was good to begin with.

  8. #8
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    Hi rpseguin

    The SGDH Drives are + / - 10v and is not STEP & DIR The SGDA also is
    + / - 10v signal to drive them I'm not sure on the step & dir with that drive but some can take the step & dir the SGDA---P Position Control is No good for CNC Just for robot type of things there is a board that will change Step & Dir Signal into + / -10V The drives should be set up for Speed Control Mode for CNC operation The SGDA type Drives will only take 2048 Encoder motors SIGMA I the SGDH can take from 2048x4 (13 Bit) to 32,768x4 (17Bit) I run mine at 16,384x4 (16Bit) encoder pulses per 1 rotation of the motor shaft You need a very good controller ( Computer & Software ) to handle the large encoder pulses all SIGMA II series have the big encoder count on the motors as standard
    Mactec54

  9. #9
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    This is just for the SGD and SGDA type P Yaskawa Servos to get the very minimum wiring to give Pulse and Direction control. The only signals you have to have on 1CN are pins 1, 2, 3 & 4. To use this minimalist configuration, set parameter Cn-01 to 0000 0000 1010 1101 or AD hex. Set Cn-02 to all zeros, or 00 hex. This means the drive will power up in the on state and won't be looking for or caring about overtravel switches. To clear a fault, power down and back up.

    Now tie 1CN pins 2 & 4 to common (0 Volts) of the printer port (PP) or breakout board (BOB) and pin 1 to the step output of the PP or BOB through (in series with) a 180 ohm 1/2 watt resistor. 1CN pin 3 ties through a 180 ohm resistor to the direction output.

    You still need AC power, encoder cable and brake if it's there. The brake control output of the drive can control the brake, but only through a suitable relay and it requires an additional 24VDC power supply in addition to the brake power supply.

    I've only run mine on the bench so far. Be aware that the tuning may be off if these are used drives. My motor wanted to vibrate off the bench without even turning when I first tried it. Then I had to tune it up to get minimal following error. And no, I don't have those parameters handy at the moment.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by mactec54 View Post
    Hi rpseguin

    The SGDH Drives are + / - 10v and is not STEP & DIR
    :nono: Sorry Mactec54, but this is not true. The SGDH will take step and direction, analog speed ref or analog torque ref. All selectable by parameter setting.

    Quote Originally Posted by mactec54 View Post
    The SGDA also is + / - 10v signal to drive them I'm not sure on the step & dir with that drive but some can take the step & dir the SGDA---P Position Control is No good for CNC Just for robot type of things there is a board that will change Step & Dir Signal into + / -10V The drives should be set up for Speed Control Mode for CNC operation
    I'm not sure why you say this? There are speed and position versions of the SGD and SGDA as you say. The P type is very suitable for CNC control.

    Quote Originally Posted by mactec54 View Post
    The SGDA type Drives will only take 2048 Encoder motors SIGMA I the SGDH can take from 2048x4 (13 Bit) to 32,768x4 (17Bit) I run mine at 16,384x4 (16Bit) encoder pulses per 1 rotation of the motor shaft You need a very good controller ( Computer & Software ) to handle the large encoder pulses all SIGMA II series have the big encoder count on the motors as standard
    There is also an absolute encoder version of the motor for the SGDA with a lower resolution. In my case, the 2048 line (which is 8192 edges per revolution) has far more resolution than I need or can use. The electronic gear ratio helps in this case by allowing multiple feedback edges per reference pulse. The Sigma I's also allow up to 32768 line encoders. The motors just didn't come with but 2 options as standard.

  11. #11
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    Hi Mike Nash

    I did not say the SGDA Drives could not be used for step & Dir you
    need to read what is said

    I have all the Yaskawa Servo system manuals and the drives that
    you are talking about can not run 17Bit encoders we have tryed
    that some time ago and they will not work.The SGDA series drives
    were only designed for 2048 (13Bit ) encoders Call Yaskawa and
    Find out if you have to

    I also said SGDA-P which is Position Control only is not of any use
    for CNC control of cause you can use it for what ever you like as
    you seem to no more than the manufacturer does

    Also there are no CNC manufactures that use Position Control they all use
    SPEED CONTROl as the way to control the motors for there CNC machines

    Yaskawa has always had the absolute encoders they are (optional) incremental encoders are standard on all motors
    Mactec54

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by mactec54 View Post
    The SGDH Drives are + / - 10v and is not STEP & DIR The SGDA also is
    + / - 10v signal to drive them I'm not sure on the step & dir with that drive but some can take the step & dir the SGDA---P Position Control is No good for CNC Just for robot type of things there is a board that will change Step & Dir Signal into + / -10V The drives should be set up for Speed Control Mode for CNC operation The SGDA type Drives will only take 2048 Encoder motors SIGMA I the SGDH can take from 2048x4 (13 Bit) to 32,768x4 (17Bit) I run mine at 16,384x4 (16Bit) encoder pulses per 1 rotation of the motor shaft You need a very good controller ( Computer & Software ) to handle the large encoder pulses all SIGMA II series have the big encoder count on the motors as standard
    Ummm... I think your information is incorrect. I'm looking at the SGDH manual and it very clearly states that the drives support position, speed and torque control and supports step and direction for position control.

    Also, the SGDA-xxP drives are very suitable for CNC axis drives, as they are position control drives.

    Thanks.
    -Ralph

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
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    54

    Yaskawa SGDH & SGDA servo drive wiring

    Hi Mike.
    Thanks for the reply and great info.
    Should be very useful!

    My drives are all used, but hopefully I can tune them.

    Thanks!
    -Ralph


    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Nash View Post
    This is just for the SGD and SGDA type P Yaskawa Servos to get the very minimum wiring to give Pulse and Direction control. The only signals you have to have on 1CN are pins 1, 2, 3 & 4. To use this minimalist configuration, set parameter Cn-01 to 0000 0000 1010 1101 or AD hex. Set Cn-02 to all zeros, or 00 hex. This means the drive will power up in the on state and won't be looking for or caring about overtravel switches. To clear a fault, power down and back up.

    Now tie 1CN pins 2 & 4 to common (0 Volts) of the printer port (PP) or breakout board (BOB) and pin 1 to the step output of the PP or BOB through (in series with) a 180 ohm 1/2 watt resistor. 1CN pin 3 ties through a 180 ohm resistor to the direction output.

    You still need AC power, encoder cable and brake if it's there. The brake control output of the drive can control the brake, but only through a suitable relay and it requires an additional 24VDC power supply in addition to the brake power supply.

    I've only run mine on the bench so far. Be aware that the tuning may be off if these are used drives. My motor wanted to vibrate off the bench without even turning when I first tried it. Then I had to tune it up to get minimal following error. And no, I don't have those parameters handy at the moment.

  14. #14
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    Hi rpseguin

    We did not go into any depth of the SGDH drives, which are the best drives
    by far the SGDH drives can do all the modes Speed Torque and Position
    Position control is the only mode that can be used for Step / Dir
    Which I have all ready said is no good for CNC operation

    All you need to run these drives with in Step/Dir input is a Pixie P100 from
    Skyko Technologies this will get you running in the correct speed mode
    which is best for CNC

    Also the SGDH is Auto Tuning so you do not have to mess with anything
    it will recognize the motor that has been wired to it and tune for that motor and the load that it is driving the motor and drive should be matched but you can use a smaller motor but not larger than the drive rating, We have more
    than 50 of these drives in stock so we use a lot of them and no them well.
    Mactec54

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by mactec54 View Post
    We did not go into any depth of the SGDH drives, which are the best drives
    by far the SGDH drives can do all the modes Speed Torque and Position
    Position control is the only mode that can be used for Step / Dir
    Which I have all ready said is no good for CNC operation

    All you need to run these drives with in Step/Dir input is a Pixie P100 from
    Skyko Technologies this will get you running in the correct speed mode
    which is best for CNC

    Also the SGDH is Auto Tuning so you do not have to mess with anything
    it will recognize the motor that has been wired to it and tune for that motor and the load that it is driving the motor and drive should be matched but you can use a smaller motor but not larger than the drive rating, We have more
    than 50 of these drives in stock so we use a lot of them and no them well.
    I'm curious, why do you say that speed mode is superior to position mode?

    Traditionally, speed and torque mode control was the way that most CNCs were done, but digital servo drives (pulsed, step/dir) are becoming very common now.

    Thanks.
    -Ralph

  16. #16
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    I'll yield on the encoder line issue with the SGDA as I have not tried it and don't have a high line count encoder handy either. I do know Yaskawa has always had poor manuals with insufficient and incorrect info, especially with the VFDs.

    I don't yet have an SGD or SGDA on a machine, though I am working on it as I feel like it. While testing the drives and motors I got via ebay, I played around with the SGDA as you can monitor position error on it. The SGDs basically allow upload/download and parameter change only. The following error was pretty horrible initially. But after raising the proportional gain, lowering the integral time, raising the position gain and setting the feedforward to 100 it got really respectable. On a jog via computer, or step change on freq. input, the motor would jump off the table. Same on stop. I suspect the sluggish tuning is the culprit in the won't do CNC well claim. Maybe I'm wrong, but we'll see.

    Unfortunately, I just found one bad drive out the three most recent purchases. It's running the wrong direction and isn't as peppy. I'll see what the seller is willing to do before trying to repair it as I don't have prints. So far, that's 1 bad out of 9, with three more arriving Thursday.

  17. #17
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    Hi Mike Nash

    It's just a parameter change to make the motor go the right way that
    you want it to, The drive would not run the motor at all if there was a
    problem with the drive probably just some parameter changes try to
    match the motors to the drive this is important
    Mactec54

  18. #18
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    I think this answer is right.
    Failing all of that, just switch two of the motor wires to reverse the phases/direction... It is a 3 phase motor, after all.
    What I don't understand is why it wouldn't immediately fault out if the drive sees the encoder going in the wrong direction...

    -Ralph

    Quote Originally Posted by mactec54 View Post
    Hi Mike Nash

    It's just a parameter change to make the motor go the right way that
    you want it to, The drive would not run the motor at all if there was a
    problem with the drive probably just some parameter changes try to
    match the motors to the drive this is important

  19. #19
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    Hi rpseguin

    We went though this last year in another post so you have not moved
    to far on your project here it is again

    Position Control this type of control moves the load from one known FIXED
    POSITION ! (STOP) to another known FIXED POSITION ! (STOP) You Could
    drill holes this way

    Velocity / Speed Control moves the load CONTINUOUSLY for a certain time
    interval or moves the load from one place to another at a precribed
    Velocity / Speed ( SMOOTH & FAST ) ( The answer lies here
    CONTINUOUSLY )

    Torque Control measures the current applied to a motor with a known torque coefficient in order to develop a known constant torque
    Used more for spindles than X / Y / Z motion

    Your mouse you use on your computer is Position Control
    Injection molding machine use Position Control
    and many other machines and robots etc
    No modern CNC machines Lathes / Mills use Position Control or Step / Dir to
    control the motion

    Most good mills all have Digital Drives today mine do with fiber-optic cables
    to the control I build them like this myself

    The Yaskawa Drives SGDH which you have or talked about & Legend SGDG Servo Amplifiers have all-Digital Architecture with 32-Bit control and have
    been around for about 10 years or more

    And the answer to your question Velocity / Speed verses Position
    Try and do 3 or 4 axes in Synchronous operation or 3 axes Interpolation
    in Postion Control it will not be easy to achieve or very smooth


    Velocity / Speed Control is Plug & Play one machine I built 4 axes only had
    ( 2 ) Parameters to change in the SGDH Yaskawa Drives and that was for Velocity / Speed Control & AutoTune we have run it like this for 5 years with no change
    Mactec54

  20. #20
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    Hi Mike Nash
    Do not do as rpseguin has said to change the wires around the drives
    will not like it may be even smoke alittle

    The wiring must be as the specification U / V / W / G G is Ground Drive

    A / B / C / D D is Ground Motor
    1 / 2 / 3 /4 4 is Ground Motor

    The motor cables are also sometimes marked the same as the drives
    so there should be no mistakes in wiring them up

    And rpseguin the Drive will not Fault out Because the drive can run
    the motor anyway you want it to just another Parameter ajustment
    you should know this or are you just good at giving bad advise

    Let him try it on his drives first
    Mactec54

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