[peteeng]

Hi Jayne - Make the bench solid, the timber looks like it will be solid! Your machine can make a light bench dance. Peter

[JayneV]

The bench will be as solid as possible. The frame is going to be made from bits and pieces I already had lying around and I have a couple of sheets of formally for the top and a shelf below. I later plan to add draws under the bench. It should hopefully be up to the task without needing to be bolted to the ground or additional support structure. I have a slightly bigger problem at the moment, for some reason Fusion decided to start crashing every time I start it. I get the splash screen quickly flash up and then disappear. I have followed a troubleshooting guide from Autodesk with no luck. I also did a full clean uninstall of the software twice and it still crashes. Thankfully all my projects are in the cloud and can still be accessed through the fusion web viewer or the Fusion app on my phone and iPad but they are view only options. More troubleshooting required.

[peteeng]

Hi Jayne - I'm a new subscriber to F360 and trudging up the learning hill. Are you a subscriber or a free hobby user? Peter

[JayneV]

Free hobby user. After my machine is built I will probably subscribe for the extra features the free version doesn't have

[JayneV]

Good news, Fusion is working again. I freed up some additional space on my laptop and almost corrupted the drive in the process, but macOS sorted itself out. It took about an hour of rebooting, and what looked to be part of the operating system re-installing itself and now I have so much more free hard drive space. Then I did a fresh install of Fusion and it's all working again. Yay!!

[mactec54]

Good news, Fusion is working again. I freed up some additional space on my laptop and almost corrupted the drive in the process, but macOS sorted itself out. It took about an hour of rebooting, and what looked to be part of the operating system re-installing itself and now I have so much more free hard drive space. Then I did a fresh install of Fusion and it's all working again. Yay!!

You need an external hard drive this is where you save everything, I put programs on quality SD cards this way your computer hard drive is never loaded with anything other than the operating system and basic programs, it will operate much faster and be more reliable

[JayneV]

Hi Mactec, part of the problem is the laptop is a 2013 model MacBook Air which was never intended to efficiently run CAD programs. Fusion will often load up the CPU and the cooling fan will run at max speed. Having said that, this little laptop has performed admirably all these years without any problems. I have never tried loading programs to an external hard drive. Would doing that slow down the performance in an already underpowered computer?

[mactec54]

Hi Mactec, part of the problem is the laptop is a 2013 model MacBook Air which was never intended to efficiently run CAD programs. Fusion will often load up the CPU and the cooling fan will run at max speed. Having said that, this little laptop has performed admirably all these years without any problems. I have never tried loading programs to an external hard drive. Would doing that slow down the performance in an already underpowered computer?

Sometimes it can help and speed things up, but like you said you are up against the age of the computer and not much can help that other than adding Ram if it has any room or can expand on what is already have Ram can give your computer a new life if it can take more Ram so that model came with 4GB of 1600MHz LPDDR3 expandable to 8GB so if you don't have 8GB then that would make it run a lot better

[peteeng]

Good morning Jayne - You don't run the program on the external drive, you place all your data on the drive especially an SSD as they are fast. Then the computer just looks after itself. If you have a computer issue you can plug the ext SSD into another computer and keep going if the programs are on that computer. I have an ext drive for each client and if the project is big a separate project drive as well. The way USB sticks are going you could use those as well or as Mac said use an SD card. Definitely good to put as much ram as you can onto a computer as well. Many CAD systems now use the video card for their processing so more video ram is very good... Peter

[JayneV]

Nothing is expandable on this particular model. Both the RAM and the SSD are chips soldered directly to the motherboard. It’s extremely thin and light form factor for its time was one of the reasons I bought it. After yesterday’s minor heart attack and subsequent freeing up of space it is performing a whole lot better. It should be enough to last until I upgrade to a new laptop, something I’ve been thinking about doing for some time now.

I don’t recall how much RAM my laptop has and I don’t have it with me at the moment to check. If I remember correctly, the Ram can be upgraded at time of purchase which is not really an upgrade but rather the same model with different specs out of the factory. There are no access panels underneath.

[luke peter]

Hi Jayne. Really cool build so far, the machine looks like its going to be really robust.

w.r.t. the laptop - since uni I have treated my pcs like a tool in the workshop, trying to model things and do FEA on a dated under-specced system is akin to cutting with a dull saw. Once the machine is built you will, I am sure, be running lots of fusion tool path generation and cutting simulation, and you will likely spend proportionally more time in part design and programming than the machine actually spends cutting - its an experience that is made much less frustrating by a properly capable PC.

Looking forward to seeing build progress, I find it very motivating when others are forging on, gets me off my bottom and into the garage

[JayneV]

Hi Jayne. Really cool build so far, the machine looks like its going to be really robust.

w.r.t. the laptop - since uni I have treated my pcs like a tool in the workshop, trying to model things and do FEA on a dated under-specced system is akin to cutting with a dull saw. Once the machine is built you will, I am sure, be running lots of fusion tool path generation and cutting simulation, and you will likely spend proportionally more time in part design and programming than the machine actually spends cutting - its an experience that is made much less frustrating by a properly capable PC.

Looking forward to seeing build progress, I find it very motivating when others are forging on, gets me off my bottom and into the garage

Thank you, I have really enjoyed getting this far with the design stage which I could not have done without the help of the wonderful people here on the forum. Now I'm really looking forward to start the actual build.

I totally agree with your comments about the computer. A new laptop is currently on my wish list.

[JayneV]

Hi everyone,

I just received a reply to one of the three requests for quote I sent out for laser cutting. It was for the larger pieces to be cut from 12mm plate. The quote came back a bit more expensive than I had hoped and they also quoted for water cutting instead of laser. I know 12mm is close to the limit for laser cutting aluminium so I will follow up with a phone call to find out more information. I also specified 5083 aluminium because it seems to be a common spec for plate with the local suppliers. Is there a cheaper spec I could specify without compromising the construction?

[joeavaerage]

Hi,
5083 grade is commonly used in marine applications. 6061 and 6063 are by far and away the most common general purpose types, although I doubt there is a significant price difference.

Just as a matter of interest what was the price. I got a quote last week for three pieces of 32mm thick medium tensile steel plate and one piece of 20mm thick medium tensile plate,
weighing a total of 48kg. The cost (including local sales tax) was $504NZD ($307USD). How does it compare?

Craig

[peteeng]

Hi Jayne - Your choices are 6061-T6 or 5063-H32. The 5000 series is better stocked at laser places. They are similar in mechanical specs for your job. That part is expensive because it is a U shape so it does not nest well. Generally you pay for the bounding box in material for small quantities so you are paying for the bit in the middle even though you don't get it. If you make it in 3 pieces it will be much cheaper. eg for Scoot-S3 I had a similar U shaped rib, it would have cost $150AUD to be laser cut and bent. In 3 pieces it was $50AUD. cheers Peter

[JayneV]

6061 seems pretty hard to get around here, at least that’s what the few suppliers I contacted told me. The parts I asked to get cut fit within a 1400x800 rectangle (12mm plate). I also asked for two pieces of 3mm sheet 1527x237mm. Total cost came to $1128 AUD including GST. Both the 12mm and 3mm were 5083, but I think 6060/6061 is more readily available in the thinner sheets so I could probably get the 3mm sheets in that spec. I don’t know what the total weight of all those parts adds up to.

[JayneV]

Hi Pete, it’s funny you mention the U shaped pieces. They actually came back cheaper than I expected at about $130 each however two rectangular pieces were almost double that price. Having said that, my RFQ included a few smaller pieces which would fit inside the U shape.

I made a rough nesting of all the parts to get an idea how they may fit together and how much material I would need. See attachment.

Oh, I should also mention that I removed all the holes from the DXF files (that is the format they asked for), so all they had to do was cut the outline of each part.

[peteeng]

Hi Jayne - If your going to have something cut you may as well have the holes done too? The laser cutter I use can cut 16mm plate with holes quite accurately. I'd be wary of supplying dxf files. Be careful with your export settings... I suggest finding a different company... The cheapest stiffest material is 3mm galvanised steel plate... May do what you want. Peter

[JayneV]

Thank you again Pete for your input. All the local companies I called asked for DXF files, preferably with at least one dimension added to cross check the size. It was a while ago when I first contacted these places and for some reason I have it in my mind that holes can quickly add to the total cost but it’s possible that is relating to water jet not laser cutting. Something to do with machine time. One place suggested that they can use their machine to mark the holes, kind of like a centre punch and then I can finish drill them myself. Again, that may well be related to the water jet cutting.

I called the place which sent the quote earlier today and asked why they quoted for water jet instead of laser. They told me the capacity of their laser is limited to max 6mm so they are out. Still waiting for the other two to get back to me, both of which are very close to home which will be convenient if their prices are reasonable. I was at one of the two local places last week and they showed me the quality of cut on aluminium. The piece they showed me was about 10mm thick and their machine can handle up to 12mm. With the 10mm thickness, the bottom half of the cut edge looked slightly burned. I was cautioned about softer metals, as the thickness increases, the laser intensity and heat needs to be increased which results in that burned appearance. The edge to edge dimensions of the parts I need cut are not super critical but I would like to start with parts manufactured as accurately as possible. If I go ahead with one of the laser quotes, I will most likely add 1-2mm and then do a finishing pass on my brother’s CNC. In that scenario, the CNC can make all the holes so it’s an appealing option.

I’d prefer not to use steel on this machine, mainly because that would mean more modifications to the design. It is very easy for me to get stuck in an Analysis Paralysis loop. I feel the design is comfortably at a stage to start building. I will only make further design changes if the current use of materials becomes prohibitively expensive or during the build I discover something won’t work as intended requiring modification. Needless to say, I have certainly been bitten by the DIY CNC bug so my next machine might be an all steel design or possibly something using laminated materials (steel, aluminium, plywood, etc), which I am keen to experiment with purely as a learning experience. Future machines will be quite small and for experimentation purposes. I am even keen to try building a 3D printed machine just to see how accurate I can make it. Carlos (this machine ) will be used to make many of the parts of future projects.

[routalot]

I might be bringing up a point you are already aware of but if you send out dxf files it can be worth spending a few minutes to be sure that all the entities are joined on the outline of the parts.I have had more than a few experiences of a CAM program importing a bunch of discrete entities that then need to be joined before the program can make sense of them.If you can demonstrate that your files are sound,you may be able to deflect a potential reason for charging the customer for the operation.