[mountaindew]

MD - have you switched from SprutCAM to F360?

No I still use sprutcam and ironcad combo for cad cam. And Getting ready to update to sprutcam 15 next week I think. I'm like the only user on earth lol. It works but is not cheap.
I use both of these programs at expert level so It would take a great deal of time to change to another product like fusion and use it at the level I use these programs at.

I would like a vcarve type program more focused on router projects but its not in budget yet.

Anyway what do you use or like?

[jdclark]

Not so much Tormach, but economic factors around the world. Big tariffs put on machines a few years back plus massive rise in costs of container shipping out of China, plus long waiting times for delivery ( as of today there were over 100 ships anchored off Los Angeles waiting for dock space). Add to that the Biden giveaways which are already showing up everywhere as price increases on everything. China's economy is teetering on the brink of collapse, especially in the massive real estate bubble, and when that bursts, it will be a ripple effect all around the world, so we may see another recession and housing market slowdown. The Chinese chip business is rife with massive fraud and that has led to a new car shortage bringing used car prices up, and used cars cannot be financed for as long and at low rates like new, plus the lack of warranty means more out of pocket cash for buyer repairs. All of these factors point to less money for people to spend on their hobbies.

[MichaelHenry]

I would like a vcarve type program more focused on router projects but its not in budget yet.

Anyway what do you use or like?

I use Alibre CAD for paid work and the free version of Onshape for hobby work. I use SprutCAM for, uh, CAM but have a paid version of F360 which I don't like to use but may need for 5-axis work if I ever get a 5-axis mill. I need to upgrade to SC 15, but have been putting it off until some rework of SC14 projects are finished. I just bought a Micro-Arc so should be starting to do some 4th axis work in SC 14.

V-Carve is supposed to be almost a standard for CNC routers from what I've heard.

[kstrauss]

I've used VCarve for years on my 770. Yes, it is really oriented towards fancy signs and such but if you import a .DXF prepared in other CAD products it works great for 2.5d jobs. I am less than thrilled with its 4th axis support. And, sadly, it lacks anything HSM related. It does do thread milling. The good news is that you actually purchase the product (not a monthly/yearly rental) so you can skip upgrades if desired.

[mountaindew]

I use Alibre CAD for paid work and the free version of Onshape for hobby work. I use SprutCAM for, uh, CAM but have a paid version of F360 which I don't like to use but may need for 5-axis work if I ever get a 5-axis mill. I need to upgrade to SC 15, but have been putting it off until some rework of SC14 projects are finished. I just bought a Micro-Arc so should be starting to do some 4th axis work in SC 14.

V-Carve is supposed to be almost a standard for CNC routers from what I've heard.

Oh nice, 4-5 axis machine. I uploaded a model for a small tomb stone a couple years ago to grabcad. I was told by a few people they use it or some version of it on micro arcs

I figured I was about the only user of sprutcam these days. Looks like V15 they added ability to do multi fixture, multi offset, multi operation setups. Looks easy to use and setup. This was something I had done for years but it takes big time skill and it was still hard to do. I requested this feature a couple times over the years but figured nobody even read the request. ??. Also 3d drawing of simple models was added.
Anyway I was told I'm the only user of sprutcam to drive 8l lathe and 24r router. And for most part I get great results on all 3 machines. Just have to know your way around that software or it can be frustrating.

[MichaelHenry]

The folks that make the Pocket NC 5-axis tabletop mill are developing a larger brother with more professional features, including a tool changer, It may be available some time next year and will be be way more than I could justify spending (as a business expense) but the want is still there.

[mountaindew]

Oh nice, 4-5 axis machine. I uploaded a model for a small tomb stone a couple years ago to grabcad. I was told by a few people they use it or some version of it on micro arcs

I figured I was about the only user of sprutcam these days. Looks like V15 they added ability to do multi fixture, multi offset, multi operation setups. Looks easy to use and setup. This was something I had done for years but it takes big time skill and it was still hard to do. I requested this feature a couple times over the years but figured nobody even read the request. ??. Also 3d drawing of simple models was added.
Anyway I was told I'm the only user of sprutcam to drive 8l lathe and 24r router. And for most part I get great results on all 3 machines. Just have to know your way around that software or it can be frustrating.

Oops I ment to say pocket nc not micro arc for the small tomb stone

[RTP_Burnsville]

Mountaindew,

I also continue to use SprutCam, although I have not upgraded in a few years......

Robert

[MichaelHenry]

Oops I ment to say pocket nc not micro arc for the small tomb stone

I'd wondered if that's what you'd meant.

[popspipes]

I still use Sprutcam as well, does everything I need to do...........no rental fees...........no cloud problems........no forced updates etc.

[jlchapman]

I using Sprutcam. Stiff learning curve compared to Fusion 360, but getting there.

[MichaelHenry]

I using Sprutcam. Stiff learning curve compared to Fusion 360, but getting there.

I've been using it since 2007 or thereabouts and it is starting to make sense for me now. Either they've made a lot of improvements or I've just learned to deal with the idiosyncrasies of the product.

I do wish that they would update the UI to something more intuitive. For example, most apps let you "tab" between fields in a dialog box in a logical manner - SC bounces randomly from one field to another.

[mountaindew]

I've been using it since 2007 or thereabouts and it is starting to make sense for me now. Either they've made a lot of improvements or I've just learned to deal with the idiosyncrasies of the product.

I do wish that they would update the UI to something more intuitive. For example, most apps let you "tab" between fields in a dialog box in a logical manner - SC bounces randomly from one field to another.

The program has improved alot over the years. The tool table was a wreck and almost Un usable for many versions. Then they changed it and it was confusing to use but major Improvement over all previous versions.. They have slowly fixed or added functionality and now it works very well.
Same with operations. They reduced or eliminated a few that were not that useful and then enhanced the others to make up for the changes.
Simulation is more stable and far smoother to use also. For most part you get exactly what you see for results. Help is also a factor better then before but still the program is hard to learn at the higher levels it can be used at. It often takes time and experimenting to get tool paths and settings that work good. There is just so many things you have control of. it can frustrate any user trying to find the one setting giving you grief or causing un expected result. But you can save good operation setups as user ops and use in any program. This saves hundreds of clicks and makes it almost simple to get good results fast. I still run into quirks in the lathe section that can get me scratching my head and frustrate me.
But on the other hand i could set it up to use a flipped from standard x axis on 8l lathe and still get it to generate good code and simulate correctly. The settings and flexibility is there just have to dig in and do it.
The post editor even works better and is same as c# compiler. Making post changes possible

[MichaelHenry]

The program has improved alot over the years. The tool table was a wreck and almost Un usable for many versions. Then they changed it and it was confusing to use but major Improvement over all previous versions.. They have slowly fixed or added functionality and now it works very well.
Same with operations. They reduced or eliminated a few that were not that useful and then enhanced the others to make up for the changes.
Simulation is more stable and far smoother to use also. For most part you get exactly what you see for results. Help is also a factor better then before but still the program is hard to learn at the higher levels it can be used at. It often takes time and experimenting to get tool paths and settings that work good. There is just so many things you have control of. it can frustrate any user trying to find the one setting giving you grief or causing un expected result. But you can save good operation setups as user ops and use in any program. This saves hundreds of clicks and makes it almost simple to get good results fast. I still run into quirks in the lathe section that can get me scratching my head and frustrate me.
But on the other hand i could set it up to use a flipped from standard x axis on 8l lathe and still get it to generate good code and simulate correctly. The settings and flexibility is there just have to dig in and do it.
The post editor even works better and is same as c# compiler. Making post changes possible

Speaking of the post editor, it looks like Sprut released some tutorials on that:

https://sprutcam.com/courses/net-pos...sons/overview/

[mountaindew]

Speaking of the post editor, it looks like Sprut released some tutorials on that:

https://sprutcam.com/courses/net-pos...sons/overview/

I added a tool table list to the header of the sbl15 post. That way I can see all the required tools in the program. After years and years of looking at 1100 mill and 24r router posted code with tool list, I was lost without it when using lathe. I crashed lathe with wrong tool just one time and decided to change the post and add it. Also on list of mods is a tool and tool offset checker like smw showed in a fusion 360 video a while back. Also changed file extension to tap from txt. That was also confusing to me.

[Samurai_Machine_tools]

maybe...

[Spinnetti]

As a Tormach owner, I'd say yes. Bottom end Haas now a better value than the top end Tormach. I need to move before I get another machine though. That said, I do a lot more 3d printing than I used to... using the tools at hand I guess.

[LazyMan]

1. Their "niche" market has always had three pillars: hobbyists, schools, and small businesses. The only ones that will complain on forums are hobbyists, so that pillar may be eroding (intentionally or not), but that gives no sign of how well the other two groups are doing. If Tormach is intentionally moving away from the hobbyist market and more towards education and B2B, good for them. They have a crapload of stuff they need to sort out, yes, but hobbyists of any market are always first to demand and first to complain.

2. Container prices have tripled since last year. No business can sustain cost increases forever without raising prices eventually. The chip shortage is a problem for everyone as well, even Haas is having issues shipping machines (the lauded TM0 is 6 months delivery, I've heard).

3. The 15L specifically doesn't have much competition for a NEW single phase CNC lathe, if they made it faster and gave it live tools they'd wipe the market entirely. Used machines are an entirely different conversation, the minute you ask "how much is a phase convertor?" you aren't Tormach's market any more.

I don't know man, with the prices now, a Tormach makes no sense for business unless you want a bare bones machine. You don't have to buy a used machine a new haas entry machine doesn't cost much more.

[jttoner]

One plus the Tormach offered was ease of repair by the user. No need to call in a high priced techie to tell you that the blue smoke escaped from an irreplaceable micro-chip. Today, rather than upgrade my Tormach I'd be looking at a small Haas. Are you listening Tormach?