[Radius]

Hi Everyone!

Apologies in advance, I cross-posted this to the Daewoo forum.

I have a Daewoo Puma 6 with a 10T control. I bought this machine as
non-working with a SV023 Servo Overload alarm. The alarm comes up the
second the control boots up, so I can't move any of the axis.


I disconnected the power cable to the servo with no change in alarm
I swapped the "data" and power cables between the velocity control
units with no change


Something that is strange is that if I swap the power input connector
*only* between the X and Z axis, the alarm will move to the X axis. I
thought maybe there was a power problem, but the voltages coming out
of the transformer are within 1 volt between and X and Z axis


I'm not sure where to go from here in diagnosing the problem.
Unfortunately I don't have any schematics, etc.


On a related note, would a series 10 maintenance manual have the
information I would need to help diagnose this problem? There is a
manual up on ebay for a somewhat reasonable price.


Thanks for any help,
Michael

[gridley51]

Michael,I looked up your error message in the 10T manual and it gave a list of causes but I thought someone else with more knowledge of the 10T would chip in.I only have one 10T control and all I have done to it is load the parameters so I don`t know much about it.I will look at it again tomorrow and post the list of possible causes.
If the manual on Ebay is the right price it`s always worth buying,especially when you have the control.I buy any manuals for Fanucs that I don`t have as you never know what you may own in the future.Over here the manual would be about $100 from Fanuc.
Mark.

[MaxHeadRoom]

What is the number of the drives? are they DC or AC motors?
When you say power input connector, do you mean the 3 phase In?
What is the Fanuc # referencing the connector if it is part of the drive?
M.

[Radius]

Michael,I looked up your error message in the 10T manual and it gave a list of causes but I thought someone else with more knowledge of the 10T would chip in.I only have one 10T control and all I have done to it is load the parameters so I don`t know much about it.I will look at it again tomorrow and post the list of possible causes.
If the manual on Ebay is the right price it`s always worth buying,especially when you have the control.I buy any manuals for Fanucs that I don`t have as you never know what you may own in the future.Over here the manual would be about $100 from Fanuc.
Mark.

If you could do that Mark I'd really appreciate it. The more information I can get the better.

The manual was had a "make offer" button so of course I used it. Haven't heard back yet.

Thanks,
Michael

[Radius]

What is the number of the drives? are they DC or AC motors?
When you say power input connector, do you mean the 3 phase In?
What is the Fanuc # referencing the connector if it is part of the drive?
M.

I'm almost certain they are DC servos - they each have what appears to be 4 brushes.

The X axis drive number is: A06B-6047-H002
The Z axis drive number is: A06B-6047-H003

I'm at work so I can't look at the connector. IIRC, it said something like "CN2Z" or something like that. It is a white connector with 3 red wires. The 3 red wires go directly to the power transformer in the cabinet and attach to the 18 and 40VDC taps.

Thanks,
Michael

[MaxHeadRoom]

Sounds Odd that you swap the LV power and it changes to the other axis? The other thing that can be monitored by the CN2 is the TCH1 TCH2 which is two terminals in the CN2 that normally would be monitoring the transformer over heat, which in turn, would indicate a servo overload.
If these terminals are not used, they may have to be jumpered.
Look in the CN2 connector and see if 4 & 5 have anything on them.
M.

[Radius]

Sounds Odd that you swap the LV power and it changes to the other axis? The other thing that can be monitored by the CN2 is the TCH1 TCH2 which is two terminals in the CN2 that normally would be monitoring the transformer over heat, which in turn, would indicate a servo overload.
If these terminals are not used, they may have to be jumpered.
Look in the CN2 connector and see if 4 & 5 have anything on them.
M.

Yes, if I swap the connector with the red wires *only* it changes axis. If I swap the same connector *and* the "data" cable together, the alarm stays on the Z axis.

I will check to see if pins 4 and 5 in the white connectors have anything in them.

Is there a temp sensor in the servo itself? If so, it is possible the control monitors this for an overload condition? Could the sensor be bad? If so, then I might be able to temporarily insert a resistor in the circuit - if I find out the value - to see if the alarm goes away.

Michael

[MaxHeadRoom]

I believe 4&5 monitor a thermal device in the transformer, IF used.
This is just a normally closed thermal switch contacts.
It opens in the case of overheat.
M.

[Radius]

I believe 4&5 monitor a thermal device in the transformer, IF used.
This is just a normally closed thermal switch contacts.
It opens in the case of overheat.
M.

Okay, well if I remember right the white connectors only have 3 red wires in them. I will double check when I get home to see if there is a jumper between pins 4 & 5, but I don't think there is.

Thank You,
Michael

[Radius]

I believe 4&5 monitor a thermal device in the transformer, IF used.
This is just a normally closed thermal switch contacts.
It opens in the case of overheat.
M.

Okay..

We're both right.

I was correct on the connector numbers. They are CN2X and CN2Z.

CN2X has *5* wires in it. I assume the extra 2 wires at 4&5 monitor the thermal device in the transformer as you stated. I found the wires at the transformer and ohmed them out - .5 ohms.

CN2Z only has *3* wires in it.

Where do I go from here?

Thank you,
Michael

[gridley51]

Michael,this is from the maintenance manual.

1/Check if overload lamp lights when turning on NC power.
2/Check thermal relay of M series velocity control unit
3/Check thermostat of servo transformer.If it operates when the surface temp of the transformer is less than 60 deg C it`s defective.

There is a lot more but this is basically the possible faults at power up for dc servos.If you can expand a bit I will type some more.
Mark.

[MaxHeadRoom]

CN2Z only has *3* wires in it.

Where do I go from here?

Does the error follow the connector that has just the three wires, If so it almost sounds like both drives are looking for the thermal input, do they both come off a common transformer? or one for each?
If this is the case then what you have depends on what course to take to satisfy the O/L input.
M.

[Radius]

Does the error follow the connector that has just the three wires, If so it almost sounds like both drives are looking for the thermal input, do they both come off a common transformer? or one for each?
If this is the case then what you have depends on what course to take to satisfy the O/L input.
M.

Yes, the error does follow the connector with only 3 wires. Also, those power input wires trace back to a single transformer. There are 2 separate connections at the transformer for the X and Z connectors, but I believe it is a common DC bus at the transformer for these connections. I could be wrong though. The voltage between X and Z varied by a 1VDC. I don't think that's enough to cause a problem.

The transformer is my machine looks almost identical to this one: http://tinyurl.com/yus9mk

Michael,this is from the maintenance manual.

1/Check if overload lamp lights when turning on NC power.
2/Check thermal relay of M series velocity control unit
3/Check thermostat of servo transformer.If it operates when the surface temp of the transformer is less than 60 deg C it`s defective.

There is a lot more but this is basically the possible faults at power up for dc servos.If you can expand a bit I will type some more.
Mark.

Hi Mark.

Thanks for the info. No overload light on the servo drive lights. The alarm only shows up on the control the second it comes up. I don't know where the thermal relay is. Is it on the drive itself? I checked the thermostat of the transformer - it seems to be working ok.


I just thought of something that might be affecting this problem. This machine came from an auction and the person I bought it from discovered the Z axis drive was missing. So he purchased a used replacement. I noticed there is a string of jumpers on the left hand side of the board. Is it possible the jumpers are not configured properly and this is the cause of my problem? Perhaps the board is jumpered to be looking for a thermal input and isn't finding one?

Thanks,
Michael

[MaxHeadRoom]

Yes, the error does follow the connector with only 3 wires. Also, those power input wires trace back to a single transformer. There are 2 separate connections at the transformer for the X and Z connectors, but I believe it is a common DC bus at the transformer for these connections.

I just thought of something that might be affecting this problem. This machine came from an auction and the person I bought it from discovered the Z axis drive was missing. So he purchased a used replacement. I noticed there is a string of jumpers on the left hand side of the board. Is it possible the jumpers are not configured properly and this is the cause of my problem? Perhaps the board is jumpered to be looking for a thermal input and isn't finding one?

I think from what you are saying, and the fact that the fault just follows the transformer CN2 plug, that this is the problem.
You could either wire the sensor up in series for both plugs or place a jumper across 4&5, in fact the connection manual shows that the TOH1&2 can be wired in series with other thermal devices like regeneration braking units etc.
If you jumper out to test it this should work as this appears to be the only difference between the two plugs.
Also the output from the transformer is AC not DC.
M.

[Radius]

I think from what you are saying, and the fact that the fault just follows the transformer CN2 plug, that this is the problem.
You could either wire the sensor up in series for both plugs or place a jumper across 4&5, in fact the connection manual shows that the TOH1&2 can be wired in series with other thermal devices like regeneration braking units etc.
If you jumper out to test it this should work as this appears to be the only difference between the two plugs.
Also the output from the transformer is AC not DC.
M.

Yes, you're correct - AC not DC. Sorry for the typo.

The more I think about it, the more I'm convincing myself that a jumpering problem on the drive is my actual problem.

Does anyone have the documentation for the jumpers on these drives? I'd rather do that than kludge a wiring solution. For testing purposes though I can short pins 4&5 on the drive and see what happens.

Thanks for the help!

Michael

[MaxHeadRoom]

I have some sheets, but the answer is fairly simple,after all it is feeding both amplifiers and to take advantage of the thermal sensor for both drives, you would have to connect two wires in the CN2 that only has the three wires and connect them in parallel to the terminals on the transformer TOH1&TOH2, but I do not know the implications of this (parallel two drive inputs).
But I do not think you need to go this route, as lets say you just jumper the 4&5 terminals out in the CN2 that only has 3 wires.
Either drive can cause overheat of the transformer, and as long as one of them is monitoring the thermal sw. the system will go in to E-stop regardless if it is the other amp causing the overheat problem.
I would tend to go the jumper route, the one down side is IF the thermal switch opens because of overcurrent of the opposite amp, the companion amplifer will be the one reporting it in the alarm.
M.

[Radius]

I have some sheets, but the answer is fairly simple,after all it is feeding both amplifiers and to take advantage of the thermal sensor for both drives, you would have to connect two wires in the CN2 that only has the three wires and connect them in parallel to the terminals on the transformer TOH1&TOH2, but I do not know the implications of this (parallel two drive inputs).
But I do not think you need to go this route, as lets say you just jumper the 4&5 terminals out in the CN2 that only has 3 wires.
Either drive can cause overheat of the transformer, and as long as one of them is monitoring the thermal sw. the system will go in to E-stop regardless if it is the other amp causing the overheat problem.
I would tend to go the jumper route, the one down side is IF the thermal switch opens because of overcurrent of the opposite amp, the companion amplifer will be the one reporting it in the alarm.
M.

Okay, understood.

I will short (jumper) pins 4&5 on the Z connector when I get home from work and see what happens. If that clears the alarm then I'll figure out a permanent solution from there

Thanks,
Michael

[Radius]

WOOO HOOOO!!!

Maxheadroom, you're my hero!!

Along with everyone else who has helped.

I shorted pins 4&5 on CN2Z and it comes up and runs perfect! ::cheers:

So, now all I need to do is figure out how to properly jumper the servo drive/amplifier (preferred) or run parallel wires from the transformer temp sensor to pins 4&5 on CN2Z.

YES! I'm freakin *stoked!*

Thank you, Thank you, Thank you x 1000!

Michael

[GEM]

Sounds a bit like a jumper is set wrong on the Z axis card. Could the card have been changed in a previous life, and the jumper settings from X have been copied. Normally only one drive monitors TX overheat. Will try and check tomorrow which jumper could be incorrectly set, although I might need the part no from the card as opposed to the drive.
GEM

[Radius]

Sounds a bit like a jumper is set wrong on the Z axis card. Could the card have been changed in a previous life, and the jumper settings from X have been copied. Normally only one drive monitors TX overheat. Will try and check tomorrow which jumper could be incorrectly set, although I might need the part no from the card as opposed to the drive.
GEM

Thanks GEM..

I got my maintenance book yesterday. It looks like it will be jumper #20.

I won't have a chance to try it for a few days.

If you come up with something else please let me know.

Thanks,
Michael