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IndustryArena Forum > WoodWorking Machines > DIY CNC Router Table Machines > Reasonably Rigid Router (RRR) - a cautionary tale (likely) in the making.
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  1. #181
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    Nov 2013
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    4282

    Re: Reasonably Rigid Router (RRR) - a cautionary tale (likely) in the making.

    Hi,
    in the first instance I would measure with a multimeter the voltage output of pin 26. It is, I would guess a 10V, or maybe 12V supply (low current capable only). It would be measured between pin 26 and pin 11.
    That would make it very similar to the analogue terminals of your VFD.

    It may be however that the servo DOES not produce a steady supply voltage, in which case your external circuit must supply the required current.

    Craig

  2. #182
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
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    181
    Quote Originally Posted by joeavaerage View Post
    Hi,
    this is the problem with cheap Chinese servos.....the manuals are crap.

    The idea is correct however, set the servo up in velocity mode and the velocity of the servo will be determined by the analogue inputs at 26,10,11.

    The conventional idea is that 0 to10V will cause rotation in one direction, say CCW and 0 to -10V will cause rotation in the opposite direction. Referring to my own Allen Bradley and Delta servos
    the primary direction (CCW OR CW with positive input) is programmable via parameters.. I imagine your servo is the same...good luck trying to find and program the parameters however.

    Do you need counter-rotation?. In the early days I had Mach programmed to run in either direction, but then hardly, if ever, used it.

    Start by doing some simple experiments with a simple 9V battery and a variable resistor and a couple of bits of wire on inputs 26,10, 11 until you can control the speed and direction to your
    satisfaction....which will inform you as to how to wire the analogue inputs into your machine.

    Craig
    Thanks Craig!

    The parameters are pretty clearly laid out in the manual thankfully, and it's easy enough to adjust with the push buttons on the drive panel.

    I don't really need the reverse, I will be using it for rigid tapping at some point, but that's not possible with the little board I have now, I will implement it using the servo in step and direction mode I think when I go to linuxcnc after buying a set of 750w servo kits from the people I got this one from. I am going to fiddle with this one in step/dir mode also to see how well easy it is to get right to prove feasibility for the cheap servo upgrade (they really are very cheap).

    I appreciate the input a lot. It's really rewarding going from initial severe puzzlement to understanding the (albeit simple) operation of drive control.

  3. #183
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
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    4282

    Re: Reasonably Rigid Router (RRR) - a cautionary tale (likely) in the making.

    Hi,

    The parameters are pretty clearly laid out in the manual thankfully, and it's easy enough to adjust with the push buttons on the drive panel.
    Both my Allen Bradley and Delta servos have set-up and tuning software on a PC that you can program the drives firmware. It makes finding and programming such parameters
    very much easier and less error prone. The next time you buy a servo insist that it have set-up and tuning software.

    I don't really need the reverse, I will be using it for rigid tapping at some point, but that's not possible with the little board I have now, I will implement it using the servo in step and direction mode
    That is exactly how I operate my Allen Bradley servo which is a spindle motor. The servo is dual mode, that is to say that most of the time its programmed to be a free running motor under 0-10V analogue
    control. I can by asserting one digital input, swap to Step/Dir control....and its this feature that I use for rigid tapping. I don't use it that often but that was always my intention. 99% of the time the servo
    is just a free running spindle, and only 1% of the time where it is position control mode for rigid tapping, or I suppose indexing spindle control.

    Craig

  4. #184
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
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    181

    Re: Reasonably Rigid Router (RRR) - a cautionary tale (likely) in the making.

    Quote Originally Posted by joeavaerage View Post
    Hi,
    in the first instance I would measure with a multimeter the voltage output of pin 26. It is, I would guess a 10V, or maybe 12V supply (low current capable only). It would be measured between pin 26 and pin 11.
    That would make it very similar to the analogue terminals of your VFD.

    It may be however that the servo DOES not produce a steady supply voltage, in which case your external circuit must supply the required current.

    Craig
    Thanks Craig.

    I will try this.

  5. #185
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
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    181

    Re: Reasonably Rigid Router (RRR) - a cautionary tale (likely) in the making.

    Getting closer...

    Waiting for some more 4 core cable, then will add the second spindle plug, and the 15 core cable for the MPG and Encoder plugs, and the touch probe wiring, and the fuses for the spindles. Then the panel will be complete and I can run the external cables. Elec stuff is time consuming, but much cleaner than the mech build.


  6. #186
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
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    6254

    Re: Reasonably Rigid Router (RRR) - a cautionary tale (likely) in the making.

    Hi Luke - I'm about to order various cables as well for two machines so understand the tension. Today I got the motors to turn on one machine and did the traditional happy dance and "its alive" scene. Always a good moment. Peter

  7. #187
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    Feb 2012
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    181
    Quote Originally Posted by peteeng View Post
    Hi Luke - I'm about to order various cables as well for two machines so understand the tension. Today I got the motors to turn on one machine and did the traditional happy dance and "its alive" scene. Always a good moment. Peter
    Congrats Peter! It is a special moment when the motors do what they are supposed to and the smoke stays inside the bits???? I am climbing a mountain this weekend, so it's unlikely I will have movement before the middle of next week. I live in hope though.

  8. #188
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    Jul 2018
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    6254

    Re: Reasonably Rigid Router (RRR) - a cautionary tale (likely) in the making.

    Hi Luke- Yes the installed smoke is still trapped in the components so all good. Matt the builder did a great job wiring the bits and I checked his work before the heart stopping moment of powering up. That always is an intimidating moment as well. But we are thru that and onto marrying the electronics and the mechanics. Things should speed up now... Peter

  9. #189
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    Jul 2018
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    6254

    Re: Reasonably Rigid Router (RRR) - a cautionary tale (likely) in the making.

    Hi Luke- The easiest thing is to take advantage of a sandwich effect so plate the outside of the wall with the same sheeting as the inside. Is the inside of the wall welded to the members? I presume it is as its in the FE model. Peter

  10. #190
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    Feb 2012
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    181

    Re: Reasonably Rigid Router (RRR) - a cautionary tale (likely) in the making.

    Quote Originally Posted by peteeng View Post
    Hi Luke- The easiest thing is to take advantage of a sandwich effect so plate the outside of the wall with the same sheeting as the inside. Is the inside of the wall welded to the members? I presume it is as its in the FE model. Peter
    I am not sure what this is in reference to Peter?

  11. #191
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    Re: Reasonably Rigid Router (RRR) - a cautionary tale (likely) in the making.

    Hi Luke- seems I responded to the wrong thing. Maybe something from early in your thread on a FE model. I quickly went back but couldn't find a reference. Ignore the entry!! Peter

  12. #192
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    Feb 2012
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    181

    Re: Reasonably Rigid Router (RRR) - a cautionary tale (likely) in the making.

    Weekend spent climbing a mountain with the missus, so no real progress on Steve.

    I did manage to put some cable management on the frame without too much effort, and added the protection fuses for the two EMI outputs.




    I was worried about cable tray attachment, since it was not in the model, but various plans were made, and workarounds employed.

    All my cable has been delivered, so back the the panel this week, and wires will be run from motors. closing in on movement.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails protection.jpg   cable trays 2.jpg   cable trays 1.jpg  

  13. #193
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    Re: Reasonably Rigid Router (RRR) - a cautionary tale (likely) in the making.

    Hi Luke -Time with partner is important and Steve will understand. I'm waiting on my cables for two machines to arrive too... I suppose you where singing Julie Andrews songs up the mountain. Peter

  14. #194
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    Re: Reasonably Rigid Router (RRR) - a cautionary tale (likely) in the making.

    Quote Originally Posted by peteeng View Post
    Hi Luke -Time with partner is important and Steve will understand. I'm waiting on my cables for two machines to arrive too... I suppose you where singing Julie Andrews songs up the mountain. Peter
    Its kind of you to think there was any spare oxygen in my lungs for belting "the hills are alive"

  15. #195
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    Jan 2005
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    15362

    Re: Reasonably Rigid Router (RRR) - a cautionary tale (likely) in the making.

    Quote Originally Posted by luke peter View Post
    Getting closer...

    Waiting for some more 4 core cable, then will add the second spindle plug, and the 15 core cable for the MPG and Encoder plugs, and the touch probe wiring, and the fuses for the spindles. Then the panel will be complete and I can run the external cables. Elec stuff is time consuming, but much cleaner than the mech build.

    There should not be any fuses for the Spindle circuit, the only protection you should have, is a Breaker for the VFD Drive input supply.

    Your Power supplies have a Fuse inside, so they do not need any additional Fuses also.

    You should not use Plugs at the cabinet, in a Spindle Circuit as this will give you a Break in the Shielded Cable, these cables should always be a direct connect if possible, using an EMI Gland is best if anything has to be used
    Mactec54

  16. #196
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    Feb 2012
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    181

    Re: Reasonably Rigid Router (RRR) - a cautionary tale (likely) in the making.

    Hi all.

    Minimal progress on the build, a couple deaths in the family, followed by the confirmation that I am moving to Australia in the middle of November have made my life incredibly hectic all of a sudden.

    I have made new encoder and motor cables for the spindles, and terminated the motor cables. I added DB15 ports for the MPG and encoder feedback also.

    I am likely not going to run the limits at this point, as Steve needs to be broken down for shipping, and my garage packed also... With things as they stand I will be able to make the machine move, and I reckon I will do that (setup steps and direction etc, so when I rebuild I can start from there with a good base for movement.



    Base plates will have to be cut in Aus when I have found somewhere to put roots...

    MAC - I hear you. I don't have the time to be electrically robust right now, I will see if there are reliability concerns with how I have wired the machine, and make corrections as required.

  17. #197
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    Re: Reasonably Rigid Router (RRR) - a cautionary tale (likely) in the making.

    Hi Luke - Busy time moving around the world. See you in Oz. Peter

  18. #198
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    Re: Reasonably Rigid Router (RRR) - a cautionary tale (likely) in the making.

    Ta Peter.

    I am going to be in Brisbane for the foreseeable future - Hopefully I will find a space that satisfies my wife's criteria (normal human housing) and mine - 4 garages worth of workshop... I don't have high hopes

  19. #199
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    Re: Reasonably Rigid Router (RRR) - a cautionary tale (likely) in the making.

    Hi Luke- Brisbane is a big sprawling city. Depends on where in "Brisbane" you need to be. You'll find a suitable place. Peter

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