[spitlight31]

Dear CNC ZONE community,

I am an owner of a Hypertherm unit, for plasma cutting.

My consummables wear out quickly, and when I checked the operator manual they reffered to the low compressed air pressure as the fault.

I did my due diligence with the installation the compressed air arrive at 6 bar on my manometer, I put not tee connection before the Hypertherm unit.

The hose going to the unit have an internal diameter greater than 9.5mm as indicated by the recommandation in the operator manual.

Yet once I enable the pressure check on the unit, the Hypertherm unit display a pressure of 4.5 bar.

By the way, the Hypertherm unit can fall below 4.5 bar if I reduce the input pressure, but It won’t exceed a pressure of 4.5 bar even if I supply 8.8 bar.

The filter inside the Hypertherm unit is new and clean.

So I started to becoming suspect of a fault in the solenoid valve.

What I found is that the solenoid valve have 48VDC input voltage, but when I measure the voltage, the voltmeter display 24VDC.

What is more strange is that once the Hypertherm is cutting, if I measure the voltage on the solenoid valve, I find a voltage oscillating between 12 VDC and 6VDC which is strange.

Any ideas on where the problems could come from*?

Any input would be greatly appreciated.

I thank you for reading this far.

[CitizenOfDreams]

I am not familiar with plasma cutters, but it sounds to me that either:
- your Hypertherm has a pressure regulator that limits the pressure to 4.5 bar;
- your Hypertherm's air pressure sensor maxes out at 4.5 bar.

A faulty solenoid valve or unstable voltage would not limit the pressure to exactly 4.5. The "oscillating voltage" you observe is most likely just electrical noise from the arc.

[spitlight31]

I am not familiar with plasma cutters, but it sounds to me that either:
- your Hypertherm has a pressure regulator that limits the pressure to 4.5 bar;
- your Hypertherm's air pressure sensor maxes out at 4.5 bar.

A faulty solenoid valve or unstable voltage would not limit the pressure to exactly 4.5. The "oscillating voltage" you observe is most likely just electrical noise from the arc.

Dear CitizenOfDreams,

Thank you for responding.

I didn't mention it, but I own a Hypertherm Powermax 45XP unit.

First of all, my cnc doesn't regulate or interfere with the pressure going through the Hypertherm unit.

My solenoid valve have a nameplate where it is indicated 48VDC as input voltage, unfortunately when I enable the pressure check I measure 24VDC with my voltmeter.

I tried turning off the Hypertherm unit, and bringing an outside supply voltage of 48VDC directly to the solenoid valve, while installing a manometer at the exit of the solenoid valve.

I did the experimentation, and the manometer showed 6 bar equal to the 6 bar pressure supplied.

Because the solenoid valve is manufactured to Hypertherm only (I asked the manufacturer), I can conclude that this is perhaps an assembly fault.

They should have assembled a 24VDC solenoid valve.

However what troubles me the most, is that, if my pressure supplied to the Hypertherm unit is around 4 bar, the Hypertherm unit supply 24VDC to the solenoid valve, but once I increase the pressure supply to 6 bar or more till 8.8 bar the Hypertherm unit supply a low voltage to the solenoid valve. It starts dropping to 12 VDC and even to 6VDC (I read with my voltmeter).

Even if I change the solenoid valve It won't solve completely the problem, I guess.

Is there anything wrong in the electronic board that messes with the supply voltage coming from it into the solenoid valve?


I could supply the 48VDC from an external source, while using a 24VDC relay with the electronic board to synchronize the whole operation. But unfortunately with the output DC voltage supply varying from 24VDC to 6VDC. I am a bit lost.

PS: by the way my compressor supply compressed air at 1.5 m^3/min flow, so nearly 60 cfm, and I have a dryer unit with an evaporator running, so I believe the compressed air supplied is clean and well filtered.

Thank you in advance for your time and consideration.

[CitizenOfDreams]

According to the service manual, the "solenoid valve" in the Powermax 45XP is indeed a pressure regulator. The Hypertherm adjust the pressure automatically (although experienced users can override it for a specific application, according to the manual). So if you are seeing 4.5 bar, then that's what Hypertherm thinks is best for you.

[spitlight31]

Dear CitizenOfDream,

Thank you for responding one more time, I can set manually the pressure with the Hypertherm unit, I get to choose from a range going from 4.2 bar to 5.2 bar. but I can't get to 6.0 bar. By the way I am using cutting mode.

This is weird because the Operator manual advise 6.0 bar pressure for a recommended cutting.

By the way I have an air compressor that exceeds far beyond what the Hypertherm unit needs from an airflow standpoint. And I have an air dryer working full time before the compressed air arrive to the Hypertherm unit.
I think there is nothing that messes up with the air quality.
But if the problems doesn't come from the solenoid valve.
Then how am I going to solve the problem of my consumables that get worn out quickly, I am talking about an electrode that get burn in less than 2 weeks without even working 24/7. and this happened not once.
Also I can't use the Finecut Consumables, because the consumables fault yellow LED gets enabled every time I put on the Finecut consumables.
Now I am working with standard consumables.
I don't know where to investigate to solve my problem with the consumables.

[CitizenOfDreams]

This is weird because the Operator manual advise 6.0 bar pressure for a recommended cutting.

That's strange, I did not see any "recommended" pressure values in the operator manual, other than the minimum input pressure. I'm afraid this is where my usefulness ends. :-)

[spitlight31]

You will find attached two images taken from the operator manual of Hypertherm, that explains why the needs of 6.0 bar.

[CitizenOfDreams]

Those are indeed the inlet pressure/flow specs, not the pressure/flow at the nozzle.

[spitlight31]

Then why do they verify the inlet pressure with the pressure with a pressure check???

Imagine if the filter is in a bad condition which could induce pressure drop.
Would you still consider cutting because from the compressor outlet you have 6 bar?
I am okay with you on this point, but I believe in the operator manual they have forgot to mention to verify with the pressure check, because if not the pressure check wouldn't have any utility.

[Macy41]

Good morning,
You haven't mention what model of what machine you are running, but some Hypertherm's have a series of leds on the face panel. If you are showing all leds, "full pressure" and then they drop drop down when you go to cut, there is a good chance the pressure regulator has gone bad. Check you plant's system pressure, If it's around OR over 125 psi, chances are best the diaphragm within the regulator is bad. Replace the regulator.
FYI... I always add a preset 100 psi regulator within the power supply before replacing the customer's regulator.
I hope this helped.
Best,
Rick
BC Electronics
Buffalo, NY

[spitlight31]

Good morning,
You haven't mention what model of what machine you are running, but some Hypertherm's have a series of leds on the face panel. If you are showing all leds, "full pressure" and then they drop drop down when you go to cut, there is a good chance the pressure regulator has gone bad. Check you plant's system pressure, If it's around OR over 125 psi, chances are best the diaphragm within the regulator is bad. Replace the regulator.
FYI... I always add a preset 100 psi regulator within the power supply before replacing the customer's regulator.
I hope this helped.
Best,
Rick
BC Electronics
Buffalo, NY

Dear Macy41,

Thank you for replying, The model of the machine is Hypertherm Powermax 45XP. I have no problem with the leds everything is fine according to the operator manual instructions.
My plant's system pressure is filtered and with great flow rate that exceed what the unit needs. The compressor supplies 10 times what the unit needs as flow rate.
I even did tests with manometers after the solenoid valve and I actuated the solenoid valve using 48VDC external supply voltage and I got the 6 bar I needed on the manometer.
Problem is once I get the unit back to a normal use, the pressure goes back to 4.5 bar and When I measure with my voltmeter in DC, I find that the voltage oscillate from 26 VDC to 24VDC to even down to 12 V 11V 9V 7V 8V 6VDC. which is insane to me.
How comes that the electronic board supply 6VDC to open a 48VDC valve.
By the way I starting to think that maybe the electronic board supply AC voltage, because when I measure with AC settings on my voltmeter, I got something between 24VAC and 18VAC. which is more logic, if we take in consideration that the valve needs 48V to open completely and the electronic board supplied half the voltage needed.
But the valve nameplate indicate 48VDC which is strange as well.
Do you have any idea about this? If you have a unit, can you share the nameplate of your solenoid valve, or tell me what you measure with your voltmeter?

[Macy41]

Dear Spitlight31,
I have a service manual for the Powermax45 XP. It's a 20+ meg PDF.
Send me an email to [email protected] and I'll try to send you the file in it's entirety.
If I can't send the entire file do to it's size, I can send you sections relative to your issue.
Question...Where are you located?
Best,
Rick Macy

[spitlight31]

Dear Rick and dear community,

I conducted all tests in the troubleshooting sections, everything works well, including the capacitors, even the solenoid valve.
My defaults, is the measure between resistance from the work lead (J23) to the nozzle (red wires). and also the work lead, nozzle, and electrode (white wire) to ground.
The resistance measure between work lead(J23) and electrode (white wire) is correct, but when I take each one of them individually and mesure their resistance with the ground(Example: resistance measure between the work lead(J23) and the ground) I don't get an open circuit, which is strange.
I deduced the power supply needs to be changed, but because the nozzle goes to the torch, I don't know if I need to change the torch as well.
Any input would be appreciated.
Best regards,

[HypHyDef]

Dear Rick and dear community,

I conducted all tests in the troubleshooting sections, everything works well, including the capacitors, even the solenoid valve.
My defaults, is the measure between resistance from the work lead (J23) to the nozzle (red wires). and also the work lead, nozzle, and electrode (white wire) to ground.
The resistance measure between work lead(J23) and electrode (white wire) is correct, but when I take each one of them individually and mesure their resistance with the ground(Example: resistance measure between the work lead(J23) and the ground) I don't get an open circuit, which is strange.
I deduced the power supply needs to be changed, but because the nozzle goes to the torch, I don't know if I need to change the torch as well.
Any input would be appreciated.
Best regards,

Hi spitlight31,
I've been following this thread, you have been getting a lot of great help from the members here. If you would like to take this one step further and get in touch with Hypertherm Technical support you can reach them here:
Technical service
(800) 643-9878
You can also send them an email through our website so that they can contact you back. You can use this link to get to that page where you fill out the form and submit.
https://www.hypertherm.com/en-US/con...ical-questions

Let me know if I can be of any further help. I do work at Hypertherm in the Marketing dept so i'm not able to help troubleshoot but I can get you in touch with those who can. Please try one of the options i've listed above.

Take care.

[spitlight31]

Hi spitlight31,
I've been following this thread, you have been getting a lot of great help from the members here. If you would like to take this one step further and get in touch with Hypertherm Technical support you can reach them here:
Technical service
(800) 643-9878
You can also send them an email through our website so that they can contact you back. You can use this link to get to that page where you fill out the form and submit.
https://www.hypertherm.com/en-US/con...ical-questions

Let me know if I can be of any further help. I do work at Hypertherm in the Marketing dept so i'm not able to help troubleshoot but I can get you in touch with those who can. Please try one of the options i've listed above.

Take care.

Dear HypHyDef,

I have contacted first of all, the technical service using the website form in February 2022.

Due to my location, I was assigned to the European Department of Hypertherm.

From my first contact with the department, I told them I never opened the unit and that I had a pressure of 4.5 bar when I enabled the pressure check, we supply 6.0 bar and even 8.0 bar but we keep getting 4.5 bar at the pressure check. This is clearly a factory fault. The manual recommend to cut with 6.0 bar.

They agreed that it wasn’t normal and because I suspected the solenoid valve, they agreed to supply it free on charge on the warranty. My warranty is still available.
However, because I bought the Hypertherm unit from China. They told me to contact the Chinese department to claim my rights.

I contacted them and asked for the solenoid valve, which they agreed to supply under the warranty.

But if you have read the whole thread you should have noticed that I discovered the service manual and under investigation and multiple tests conducted following what Hypertherm instruct to measure.
I have discovered that the power board is at fault, so I asked for a supply of a power board, under the warranty.

At this point the technical department in China, started avoiding my requests. By telling me that the whole unit is okay, for no constructive or logical reasons, and that It is how it is.
Which makes no sense, I am an engineer myself. I understand how the plasma works and I read the operator manual and service manual.

What they tell me goes against what Hypertherm wrote in the manuals.

By the way I supplied them with photos of my results due to the service manual tests, and even asked for a live camera meeting so that I could conduct the test infront of them live, to prove my good faith.
But no response, only deny, they just keep telling me that they don’t see any problem with my Hypertherm unit and they deny my situation.

I have proofs of all my claims from the start of my contact with Hypertherm. I can provide emails, Wechat conversations screenshots if needed.

To come back full circle on you, my company keeps losing money due to the consumables getting worn in few days, the bad cut which affect our assembly machines due to excessive frictions.

When we wanted to buy a cutting unit, in our meeting, my company suggested Chinese brands because our competitors in our industry bought them, and because they are cheap. But I kept insisting and defending choosing Hypertherm, because of the high customer service, high standard and high ethics. I promised them we would get returns over time on our investment when we would claim our customer rights.

But look at me now, what a farce I am in right now, I don’t know what to say to my company, I am even risking loosing my job.

I truly respect Hypertherm and their incredible products and services, but unfortunately they are badly represented in some locations outside of the USA. The final customer have no way to reach the headquarter where I am sure they will hear his cry of help.

To all who read this reply thus far, I thank you deeply for your time, I am sorry if this sound like a rant, but this has been my experience by far.

Dear HypHyDef, thank you for involving yourself in this thread even if your not a part of the technical department, If you could get me in touch with someone in Hypertherm who wanna help, I will be infinitely grateful to you.

If anyone has any advice, please go ahead.

Best regards,

[HypHyDef]

Hello spitlight31, I tried to send you a private message to discuss but you have chosen not to receive them on this forum. Can you please email me directly at " [email protected]" Thank you. looking forward to hearing from you.

[spitlight31]

Hello spitlight31, I tried to send you a private message to discuss but you have chosen not to receive them on this forum. Can you please email me directly at " [email protected]" Thank you. looking forward to hearing from you.

Dear HypHyDef,

I contacted you by email, I didn't knew that I can't receive private message on the forum, I will change that.

Thank you for replying.

[HypHyDef]

Hi again,
I have been in touch with our technical support team here in the USA. The following is directly from a tech after reading the messages from this thread.

"The Powermax 45 XP the gas valve test is activated by pressing and holding the Mode button for 5 seconds.
It will display P.C. for Pressure Check. Release the button and it will briefly display a pressure Setpoint for example 68 PSI or 4.5 Bar.
Then the valve actuates and air starts flowing. The screen shows a Pressure Sensor reading which should closely match the Setpoint.

The Input of 6 Bar does not mean there is an Output of 6 Bar to the torch, in fact sending 6 bar to the torch is impossible.

The valve is controlled by varying pulsed voltage from the control system to maintain the target output pressure.
It is not recommend nor it is necessary to measure voltage to the solenoid valve to determine proper function.
Correct valve output pressure is verified by the Pressure Sensor reading displayed on the screen during the test."

[spitlight31]

Dear HypHyDef,

Thank you for your fast reply, I know how the pressure check works, it is explained in the operator manual.
I told you I am an engineer, I read the manuals.

If the gas pressure needed to cut is 4.5 bar then why does the manual recommend a minimum inlet pressure of 5.9 bar.

You can find that in the operator manual page 24.

By the way, I can have 4.5 bar in the pressure check by supplying 4.5 bar at the inlet of the Hypertherm unit. I did this test setting the regulator supply to 4.5 bar and I got 4.5 bar on the display.

Then why does the manual instruct to get 6.0 bar minimum if at the end of the day the torch will cut with 4.5 bar, this is a waste of energy don’t you think.

Also I can’t cut using Finecut consumables, I automatically get a yellow LED on the consumables, due to low gaz pressure.

My consumables get worn in few days. I replace the electrod and nozzle at the same time as recommended by Hypertherm.
Is it normal*?

Is it how your product, is expected to work*? This is too expensive and insane costs for a company using the unit.

In page 158 from the service manual, the manual states the following sentence*:
«Use a gas test to determine if adequate gas pressure is exiting the torch. The gas test lets you see
the plasma system’s actual gas pressure so that you can compare it to the inlet set pressure.»

You see there is nowhere, where the manual said that you use the pressure check so that you can display 4.5 bar, if you display 4.5 bar then your unit is okay.
In the Hypertherm manual when you seek troobleshooting, they state that if the consumables get worn quickly there is a problem with low gas pressure.
If you have frictions and sparks on the sheet when you cut, this is coming as well from low gaz pressure.

I supply 6.0 bar even 8.0 bar (I don’t exceed 9.3 bar as instructed by Hypertherm).
Confirmed by the manometer.

So where comes the low gas pressure that the manuals talks about*?

Strange, is the technician right saying that the unit should work with 4.5 bar*? Or is the manual wrong*?
Which one is it?
Again please check page 148.

On the other hand, a well functional Hypertherm unit should have results identical to what the service manual shows. Or, unless it is not the case, then the service manual have no meaning at all.
In page 155, there is a measurement of the snubber resistors where the resistance should be 10 Ohm.
I got 10 Ohm on my Ohmmeter.
The same happens for everything else, the solenoid valve, the capacitor ect.
And I get the same values shown in the service manual.
However, when I conducted the measurements test on the power board I found wrong results.
In page 153, I found 0.9 MegaOhm, whereas the manual indicate that I need to find 450 kiloOhm.
The difference is huge and absurd.
Also in page 154, I found 27 kiloOhm instead of 200kiloOhms, measurements between the nozzle wire and the work lead wire.
I found 16 kiloOhm between the electrode wire and the nozzle wire which is different from the 200 kiloOhm indicated, and finally I didn’t find more than 20MegaOhm or an open circuit for the measurement between work lead, nozle, electrode and the ground, I found small values in the scale of 0.678 kiloOhm, 29.28kOhm, 18.08kOhm.

This is clearly a factory fault on the power board. As I said I can do live measurement test.
By the way, why the measures doesn’t converge for these tests*? If the Unit works perfectly as indicated by the technician’s response.

Finally, I am surprised that when I asked for the first time for a solenoid valve replacement, nobody told me that the Hypertherm unit works normally with 4.5 bar, even the technician response were «yeah you’re right, we will supply you a solenoid valve on the warranty».
It is strange don’t you think so*? (I have email proof of all the conversations with the technicians).
But now that I found that the powerboard is at fault, the laws of physics changed, and as if by chance the Unit should now work with 4.5 bar.
Dear HypHyDef, the reply the technician gave you is the same as the one coming from the chinese department.
If you ask for a solenoid valve, telling them that you’re pressure is too low 4.5 bar, they agree.
If you ask for a power board, telling them that you’re pressure is too low 4.5 bar, they refuse telling you that you’re insane for thinking that the unit should work with a pressure above 4.5 bar.

As I reflected a lot on this matter, It appear clearly that this is a question of price, the power board costs a lot, and therefore it is better to make the customer looks like a fool.
I can supply our initial powerboard back to your headquarters if you want.
I didn’t ask for a powerboard supply just for the sake of getting free stuff. I just want our unit to work normally as expected from the purchase.
By the way our competitors have a normal cut, their consumables last longer, and there is no friction with their machine due to the cut. And they cut with 6.0 bar pressure.

[spitlight31]

Dear HypHyDef,

I am still waiting for your reply, I am still waiting for a technician to confront my measurement results from the service manual.
I am still waiting for an answer.

Thank you for reading thus far, thank you for your effort.
I hope the community of cnczone will gain something of value out of this thread.

Best regards,