[Goonk]

This is a new phenomena. Maybe its me?

Avid CNC Standard 2448 Machine, all AVID parts, Bosch 1617

Now and then, after I have homed he machine and been using it, I'll click on the Auto zero button to set a new tool height (after a manual tool change), and I get a message box stating that all axis must be homed to use the auto zero routine (or something like that). That's when I realize that I have lost all three axis' homing (i.e. red leds). Is there something I could be doing to lose them without knowing? I have never run into this before. I haven't changed a thing recently. I am using the stock AVID Mach 4 install. I did create a few buttons to perform some simple tasks. I have written a routine to move the router to a certain spot to change the tool. Wondering is soft limits could be doing this? I had never used those before.

Thanks for any ideas.

Tony

[subnoize]

"Bosch 1617" could be losing steps because the router can't keep up with the cuts.

[Kosh]

This is a new phenomena. Maybe its me?

Avid CNC Standard 2448 Machine, all AVID parts, Bosch 1617

Now and then, after I have homed he machine and been using it, I'll click on the Auto zero button to set a new tool height (after a manual tool change), and I get a message box stating that all axis must be homed to use the auto zero routine (or something like that). That's when I realize that I have lost all three axis' homing (i.e. red leds). Is there something I could be doing to lose them without knowing? I have never run into this before. I haven't changed a thing recently. I am using the stock AVID Mach 4 install. I did create a few buttons to perform some simple tasks. I have written a routine to move the router to a certain spot to change the tool. Wondering is soft limits could be doing this? I had never used those before.

Thanks for any ideas.

Tony

I just encountered this today, twice. AvidCNC, running the 4HP spindle (it is NOT a problem with the spindle keeping up).

New Mach4 install (and computer).

[subnoize]

I just encountered this today, twice. AvidCNC, running the 4HP spindle (it is NOT a problem with the spindle keeping up).

New Mach4 install (and computer).

I am not the smartest guy in the room, no question there BUT I do know the whole losing home in a stepper based CNC has only a few causes. Especially with AvidCNC systems;

1. Double check the speeds in Mach4 and that they match your CAM . AvidCNC does tweak things. Drives me nuts but I guess they are trying to improve things.

2. Check your tensioner bolt. The bracket it passes through after the spring can get twisted and cause the rack and pinion to no longer mess correctly. Best way to check is to push the axis with the motors engaged and there should be no play. See if the tensioner bolt can be pushed in and the pinion gear is pushed off the rack. Release the tensioner bolt and make sure it full seats back against the rack.

3. Sanity check the speed and feeds in your CAM again! Lol, my problem is fat fingers.

4. The Z axis from AvidCNC can wear out the brake and that will cause you to lose steps in the Z.

Best of luck!

I hate typing in phones

[joeavaerage]

Hi,

Wondering is soft limits could be doing this? I had never used those before.

No, SoftLimits do not cause this fault. I have regular Limit switches and they cause an Estop should any one of them be triggered. Even an Estop does not cause the machine
to de-reference, although is is advisable after an Estop to re-reference, the crash stop can cause an inaccuracy. I have soft limits engaged all the time.
They are set up to trigger a few mm 'inside' the limit switches. If the machine is trying to execute a move that would take it out of bounds SoftLimits simply ignores the
move, and stops. It does not EStop nor does it de-reference the machine, at least with the standard NFS Mach4Hobby builds.

Craig

[Goonk]

Thanks. To be clear, my machine runs perfectly. No issues at all. Just that all the sudden after a tool change or new program or something(not sure), I have lost homing. I don't even know it until I run one of my programs I use to move to spot to change the tool or something like that where I check to make sure all axis have been homed before I move. Then I get a message saying all axis are not homed. That's when I notice the red lights instead of the green lights! I haven't had a chance to fool with it in a while as I am in the middle of another project. I cut numerous templates and jig parts (making chairs) for this project and all went perfectly. No speeds/feeds issues, no lost steps, nothing funny in operation. I haven't figured out exactly when this happens and I'm usually in the middle of something and just fix it and move on. Hopefully, I can at least figure out what/when and then post again. Might be a while...ever built chairs? All those angles and mortise/tenons, etc., oh my! There ain't a flat surface on these things...yes, I designed them that way, but geez!

Tony

[Kosh]

I am not the smartest guy in the room, no question there BUT I do know the whole losing home in a stepper based CNC has only a few causes. Especially with AvidCNC systems;

1. Double check the speeds in Mach4 and that they match your CAM . AvidCNC does tweak things. Drives me nuts but I guess they are trying to improve things.

2. Check your tensioner bolt. The bracket it passes through after the spring can get twisted and cause the rack and pinion to no longer mess correctly. Best way to check is to push the axis with the motors engaged and there should be no play. See if the tensioner bolt can be pushed in and the pinion gear is pushed off the rack. Release the tensioner bolt and make sure it full seats back against the rack.

3. Sanity check the speed and feeds in your CAM again! Lol, my problem is fat fingers.

4. The Z axis from AvidCNC can wear out the brake and that will cause you to lose steps in the Z.

Best of luck!

I hate typing in phones

It is not losing steps, this occurred in between program runs, had just jogged/moved the gantry to put a new blank on the table, then when I pressed run it informed me that that it needed to be homed. Twice in a row.

There is something else going on.

[Kosh]

update: I figured out what is causing the loss of homing (at least in my case), as I accidentally repeated it last night:

1) Program running
2) Stupid me realizes the wrong bit is in
3) press "Stop"
4) Press "Reset" to rewind the g-code
5) mach4 says I need to rehome.

So.... perhaps I should have bothered to RTFM (Read the Fricken Manual - only I didn't say "Fricken"!!). this is a problem for us software engineers assuming we can just "figure out" an app!

To wit:

[Goonk]

Glad you figured it out. If I figure mine out, I'll post what I found. Might be a while. Seems like mine only happens between programs when I do a tool change. I typically run a program I wrote that locates the router at a specific spot in machine coords. That's when I notice it because my program checks if all axes are homed before moving. If not, I get a message box and nothing happens. So I'm not sure why I lost homing before that. It would have been right after I completed a program. I'll pay close attention next time I use it.

Tony

[subnoize]

update: I figured out what is causing the loss of homing (at least in my case), as I accidentally repeated it last night:

1) Program running
2) Stupid me realizes the wrong bit is in
3) press "Stop"
4) Press "Reset" to rewind the g-code
5) mach4 says I need to rehome.

So.... perhaps I should have bothered to RTFM (Read the Fricken Manual - only I didn't say "Fricken"!!). this is a problem for us software engineers assuming we can just "figure out" an app!

To wit:

Good you figured it out! I always rehome for every run as I found that 0.002" repeatability can accumulate over time. Kind of a side effect of that rack and pinion gear drive. Hitting the EStop is a massive jolt to the system and I could see it causing problems in that light. For me the EStop is only useful when it's trying to eat my leg or something.

Price you pay for a monster machine for a pretty little penny!

[subnoize]

Glad you figured it out. If I figure mine out, I'll post what I found. Might be a while. Seems like mine only happens between programs when I do a tool change. I typically run a program I wrote that locates the router at a specific spot in machine coords. That's when I notice it because my program checks if all axes are homed before moving. If not, I get a message box and nothing happens. So I'm not sure why I lost homing before that. It would have been right after I completed a program. I'll pay close attention next time I use it.

Tony

Wait, I am not following. When you say "lost home" in my pea sized brain that means you say goto X and Y and its off by like an inch or something from where you wanted to position the tool. But what you wrote reads like the home is "cleared" and your message pops up because the home is no longer set when you run your custom script.

Did I read that right?

[Goonk]

I think you are with me now. First thing I do to get started is home all three axes. I do my thing, run a program or two, etc. Not sure when or why, but suddenly, the axes are not homed anymore. I believe it is just x and y. My programs checks to make sure all axes are homed before moving anything because they use machine coords and I want to make sure it knows where it is before moving and something bad happening!

Tony

[subnoize]

I think you are with me now. First thing I do to get started is home all three axes. I do my thing, run a program or two, etc. Not sure when or why, but suddenly, the axes are not homed anymore. I believe it is just x and y. My programs checks to make sure all axes are homed before moving anything because they use machine coords and I want to make sure it knows where it is before moving and something bad happening!

Tony

Ok, understandable. So this script of yours is what alerts you to the fact the home has been "cleared." It pops up the warning that you are no longer homed. I wouldn't use the term "losing home" because that has a very distinct and physical cause.

So, good news, bad news; Good news is its software, not hardware. Bad news is its software, not hardware.

It sounds like you would want to file a ticket with Machsupport. I can offer up some advice but having them look at your script (I have my last penny riding on something in that script is clearing home on accident, welcome to my hell!) would be a lot quicker. File a ticket and they will get around to talking to you in less than 48 hours. As of late they have been real responsive to me. They have more knowledge about known bugs and quirks in the scripting engine than I would.

Best of luck though. Lua is a pain in the rump!

[subnoize]

Tony,

I have seen your home clearing in action. It didn't start happening until I hit the Stop Cycle button today. And it cleared the home several times after that all on its own. I think its a bug in Mach4 or maybe the way AvidCNC set it up. Either way, I have seen it and I believe it has something to do with hitting that stop button. I normally never use it but I did tonight and that was a mistake!


--jb

[Kosh]

Tony,

I have seen your home clearing in action. It didn't start happening until I hit the Stop Cycle button today. And it cleared the home several times after that all on its own. I think its a bug in Mach4 or maybe the way AvidCNC set it up. Either way, I have seen it and I believe it has something to do with hitting that stop button. I normally never use it but I did tonight and that was a mistake!


--jb

See my post above. Did you also hit the "reset" button?

[subnoize]

See my post above. Did you also hit the "reset" button?

Hmmm, I hit the reset a lot but not the stop button so much.

I have to write code around the stop button anyways. My tool changer doesn't honor the stop button. When I changed to ModBus I forgot to add those checks.

So good excuse to figure out what is up with all of that. A nice long weekend so I have time to get it looked at.

--jb

[subnoize]

See my post above. Did you also hit the "reset" button?

So I have spent the day resetting, stopping, e-stopping and I can report hitting the stop button on screen or calling that function in code WILL clear your home, as it should. E-stop also clears home, as it should.

Clicking the reset button DOES NOT clear home.

[joeavaerage]

Hi,

So I have spent the day resetting, stopping, e-stopping and I can report hitting the stop button on screen or calling that function in code WILL clear your home, as it should

I think this behaviour is optional.

If I <Reset> or <Stop> my machine in neither case does it de-reference. See the setting in the General Settings tab, attached.

I very seldom hit <Reset> or Estop my machine. I do however use <FeedHold> followed by <Stop> so I can stop a job part way through jog to a location to change a broken tool for instance.
In this circumstance I definitely DO NOT want my machine to de-reference, because when I've finished whatever mid-job alteration I was doing I want to be able to jog back to the
job location and restart the code.

If you use <Stop> but without <Feedhold> prior to then there is a risk that the Home reference is no longer accurate. If that is the case then re-Homing the machine is required, but I try to avoid
that condition and decide on a case by case basis whether re-Homing is required.

Craig

[subnoize]

Hi,



I think this behaviour is optional....


Craig

When did you last update? I actually never e-stop unless blood is squirting everywhere but it's become an issue with the beta testers as the do use those features.

Now I am coding around that I have figured out the version released in April I believe is clearing home a bit more aggressively than in the past.

[joeavaerage]

Hi,
I updated about a fortnight ago to 4839 but there were a few quirks with that I did not like, so have reverted back to 4612, although I'm now using the 4839 wx6 screenset which
was really all what I wanted anyway.

Craig