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  1. #1
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    Jul 2022
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    Lightbulb Mitsubishi MELDAS L3/M3 monitor problem

    Hello, I have recently owned a lathe that works on the mitsubishi meldas L3 control. The machine itself was unused for a long time.
    It is known that the memory has been lost due to the long period of non-use, but I have a backup on floppy disks. Hence, I replaced the battery with a new one, connected the power cables and the machine started, the fans from the control cabinet went in motion, the lamp is on, etc. There was nothing on the CRT display, even afterglow, so I ordered the LCD which, when connected, displays the message "no signal input ". Maybe who, who told me about the problem, maybe the wiring diagram for MELDAS L3 / M3?

    PS.
    Maybe information on how to reset the entire driver?



    I send greetings from Poland to everyone.

  2. #2
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    Re: Mitsubishi MELDAS L3/M3 monitor problem

    The problem was solved.
    I am posting this comment because someone may have a similar problem with this age control.
    I performed a reset of the entire driver and the monitor responded.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 295252919_355557766765515_322083291647338219_n.jpg  

  3. #3
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    Re: Mitsubishi MELDAS L3/M3 monitor problem

    Yeah, this is one that I actually could have helped you with too, but I'm glad you got your answer..... Looks like yours is in German.

  4. #4
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    Re: Mitsubishi MELDAS L3/M3 monitor problem

    Quote Originally Posted by MrMetric View Post
    Yeah, this is one that I actually could have helped you with too, but I'm glad you got your answer..... Looks like yours is in German.
    So apparently my language is German. I have to change it to English somehow.
    Now I need to do a system backup. Is there an rs232 connection?

  5. #5
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    Nov 2012
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    361

    Re: Mitsubishi MELDAS L3/M3 monitor problem

    There is! One of the things I'd highly encourage you to do is join the MEAU website support section. They have a LOT of documents there. The searching isn't really very good, but if you spend some time sifting through the results, you can get all the manuals for the M3/L3 there. Those cover the configuration for the RS232 port.

    I could cut to the chase and give you an abbreviated version here (and, I warn you, the MEAU manuals have everything in them, but they are not the best written documentation in the world!), but I'm currently on vacation. As such, I don't have access to my notes.

    Once you have the serial port configured, you can dump the system parameters, programs, tool info, and command vars to your port. But.... RS232 is never as easy as USB. You must have the correct cable and software running on your PC. If you don't have these setup properly, you'll have issues....

    I can help you on much of this once I get home, but in the interim there are some things you can research. First, you can read through the manuals to determine how you change the language. I think I've seen this before, but I've never actually paid much attention to it because my machine has always been in English when I've tinkered with it. So, you will have to do some research to find the correct parameter to change..... Most of the parameters are written into EEPROM, so you likely have those in the system now without having to do anything. This, of course, means it is an excellent time for you to do the back!

    Sadly, there is one thing that will probably cause you some grief. If your machine has a tool change macro, that is stored in memory that you've lost due to a dead battery and which was subsequently formatted. So you will need to find the macro someplace. Often you can get this from a machine manual or another vendor. And, sometimes everything is in PLC so there is no macro. This is all up to the designer of your machine so I can't tell you what to expect... In fact, I don't even know what brand/model of machine you have....

  6. #6
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    Jul 2022
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    Re: Mitsubishi MELDAS L3/M3 monitor problem

    Hello,
    I cannot access the website www.meau.com
    My machine has lost all parameters, unfortunately I do not have a backup for it ... all parameters will have to be written by hand. If you have any documents for meldas M3 / L3, I would be grateful if you could send them to my address: [email protected]

    Regards Damian

  7. #7
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    Nov 2012
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    Re: Mitsubishi MELDAS L3/M3 monitor problem

    HI Damian,
    I'm back from my vacation now, but I also am in the middle of my "normal" work week. As such, it will take me a bit to gather the information for you. In the meantime, I'd *highly* suggest that you *NOT* mess with the machine before you download (from the machine to the computer) the system parameters. The reason for this is simple.... Most, if not all, of the parameters are written to EEPROM. That means that they *should* still be there. If you start randomly changing things, then you could lose important information.

    Don't get me wrong... You will likely still have some issues because specialized macros such as the tool changer macro are *not* part of the EEPROM. You may find those in your manual for the machine or you might be able to find someone that has what you need. OR it could be that the tool change is all written into the PLC, which is *typically* (but not always) in EPROM.

    I think I gave you a bum steer.... Try the following website:

    https://www.mitsubishielectric.com/f...ual&kisyu=/cnc

    On edit: Interesting... They used to have a lot more manuals. I'm not sure if they have purged things or if there is another site also run by Mitsubishi Automation (although this one looks identical to what I remember). But... Fear not. If absolutely necessary, we can eventually get you the manuals. There are three main ones that cover the M3/L3 (which are essentially the same control). There are several others that cover the amplifiers and such. Don't be afraid to broaden your search to the M300 line as well because those are essentially using the same boards as the M3/L3. And, even the later Meldas line seems to share a LOT in common with the older generation, so you frequently can get useful information from them.

  8. #8
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    Nov 2012
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    361

    Re: Mitsubishi MELDAS L3/M3 monitor problem

    I finally found the Manuals in the Mitsubishi website again..... I think you will need to create an account. In addition, it is possible that you will not be able to do this because you are not in the United States. I recall someone else saying they had problems. The following link does give me a list of some M3xx documentation though. Please note that the website search isn't all that great. You have to tinker with it for a while and go through lots of pages. But here *is* a lot of useful information there if you are creative:

    https://us.mitsubishielectric.com/fa...:@owscategory=[CNC%20Controls]&f:@owsfamily=[L3%2FM3]&f:@owsprimarycontenttype=[Manual]

  9. #9
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    Jul 2022
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    Re: Mitsubishi MELDAS L3/M3 monitor problem

    MrMetric Thank you for all the tips and help. I am sorry that I am only responding to you now, but I had health problems. I started my machine, my specialist has to check the EPROM memory.
    However, the problem is different ... my machine is not very popular, and I do not have a system backup for it.

  10. #10
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    Nov 2012
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    361

    Re: Mitsubishi MELDAS L3/M3 monitor problem

    EPROM is different than EEPROM. EPROM is very typical for the PLC, but the control was sold in different flavors. Some had RAM for the PLC, so you would have to load the PLC from a disk. This had the advantage of making changes very simple, but the disadvantage of really leaving you in a lurch if the memory went south and you didn't have a backup. Iv'e never seen a machine with a RAM PLC, though, so I don't think it was a common option. EPROM is something that is programed at the factory. EPROMs are spec'd to last about 20 years and then they can start to fail (yes, that should concern you...). EEPROM is electrically erasable programmable memory. It is used by the control to store many, but not all, of the parameters. This is why I am saying that you should make a backup as soon as possible. You may have most of the information you need sitting there!

    Program memory is always in RAM. YOu need a battery to keep that alive while the power is out. Once that battery dies, you lose the memory. This is significant because often the tool changer code will be in a small macro. If you don't have a copy of that in your manual, and the builder can't support you, then you are in a world of hurt. You might not be able to use your tool changer anymore. Sometimes the tool changer is all handled in PLC, however, which (as mentioned) is typically burned in EPROM. If that is the case, then you your machine will survive complete power loss. But, again, EPROMs don't last forever.

    Best of luck!

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by PAKERS View Post
    The problem was solved.
    I am posting this comment because someone may have a similar problem with this age control.
    I performed a reset of the entire driver and the monitor responded.
    What is the procedure to reset the driver? I have a similar black screen monitor issue on my new to me, 1994 supermax mill. Thanks! Don’t want to jump to creating a new thread if your procedure to reset the driver is a potentially simple fix.

  12. #12
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    Nov 2012
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    361

    Re: Mitsubishi MELDAS L3/M3 monitor problem

    First thing... Do you have any backup of the parameters, either on paper (usually a printout in a manual) or on a disk? It *does* matter because the parameters are used to customize the machine. Fortunately, the parameters are loaded into EEPROM (Electrically Erasable Programmable Memory), so they are safe even when the power has been off for a LONG time. HOWEVER, if you start messing around with trying to run all the different reset procedures, you *MAY* erase the parameters. Therefore, it benefits you to slow down and be patient.

    Its also not resetting the "driver," a term which typically means a bit of code that "tells" a computer how to manage a specific device such as a printer, mouse, scanner, etc. The Meldas control doesn't have drivers. What it does have is parameters that customize the control to a specific machine via generic capabilities such as "how many axis are present" or "tuning the servo for a particular axis." In addition, it has a PLC (aka ladder logic) which is also used for customization. This binds a specific input or output to a specific pin (things like the limit switch inputs, or carousel outputs); in addition, it can be used to setup logical sequences such as, "when this switch is open, do not allow the machine to be started." Typically on an M3 or L3 series control, the PLC is burned into EPROM, which is memory that cannot be changed. However, it *can* lose its sanity.... Over time, EPROMs will lose "state." Think of it like this. Some memory burning is analogous to burning a hole in a piece of paper for a 1 and not burning for a 0. These types of memory never loose their state. However, an EPROM works with a small charge. Over the decades, that charge can dissipate and then the original state of the bit is lost. This is a bad bad thing, of course. Typically I make a copy of all my EPROMs because I don't trust that they'll be around forever. Let's face it, these machines are *old* and the stated life of many of these devices is 20 years... Now, the M3 was built in the early 90s which makes them almost THIRTY years old!

    I digress.... So, there is no driver (software) in the M3. There are, of course, drives though. You will have a servo amplifier (aka a drive) for each axis and also a drive for each spindle. The M3 control uses MR-S1x drives (MR-S11, S12, S13). The S11 will only control one servo while the S12 will control two and the S13 will control three. The S11 is definitely the most common, but it isn't unusual to find an S11 and an S12 in a mill. The S13 appears to be pretty rare. Fortunately, you can replace an S12 with two S11 drives, if you wanted to (although you would need the space and redo your wiring a bit).

    OK... that is about it for now. I just wanted to be sure we got the nomenclature straight as it can get confusing sometimes if people are talking apples and oranges. :-)

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by MrMetric View Post
    First thing... Do you have any backup of the parameters, either on paper (usually a printout in a manual) or on a disk? It *does* matter because the parameters are used to customize the machine. Fortunately, the parameters are loaded into EEPROM (Electrically Erasable Programmable Memory), so they are safe even when the power has been off for a LONG time. HOWEVER, if you start messing around with trying to run all the different reset procedures, you *MAY* erase the parameters. Therefore, it benefits you to slow down and be patient.

    Its also not resetting the "driver," a term which typically means a bit of code that "tells" a computer how to manage a specific device such as a printer, mouse, scanner, etc. The Meldas control doesn't have drivers. What it does have is parameters that customize the control to a specific machine via generic capabilities such as "how many axis are present" or "tuning the servo for a particular axis." In addition, it has a PLC (aka ladder logic) which is also used for customization. This binds a specific input or output to a specific pin (things like the limit switch inputs, or carousel outputs); in addition, it can be used to setup logical sequences such as, "when this switch is open, do not allow the machine to be started." Typically on an M3 or L3 series control, the PLC is burned into EPROM, which is memory that cannot be changed. However, it *can* lose its sanity.... Over time, EPROMs will lose "state." Think of it like this. Some memory burning is analogous to burning a hole in a piece of paper for a 1 and not burning for a 0. These types of memory never loose their state. However, an EPROM works with a small charge. Over the decades, that charge can dissipate and then the original state of the bit is lost. This is a bad bad thing, of course. Typically I make a copy of all my EPROMs because I don't trust that they'll be around forever. Let's face it, these machines are *old* and the stated life of many of these devices is 20 years... Now, the M3 was built in the early 90s which makes them almost THIRTY years old!

    I digress.... So, there is no driver (software) in the M3. There are, of course, drives though. You will have a servo amplifier (aka a drive) for each axis and also a drive for each spindle. The M3 control uses MR-S1x drives (MR-S11, S12, S13). The S11 will only control one servo while the S12 will control two and the S13 will control three. The S11 is definitely the most common, but it isn't unusual to find an S11 and an S12 in a mill. The S13 appears to be pretty rare. Fortunately, you can replace an S12 with two S11 drives, if you wanted to (although you would need the space and redo your wiring a bit).

    OK... that is about it for now. I just wanted to be sure we got the nomenclature straight as it can get confusing sometimes if people are talking apples and oranges. :-)
    Yes, I have a ton of documentation that came with this thing, including a few disks marked ‘parameter backup 2018’ I’ve also checked the battery and it reads 3.72v, so I don’t think I need a new one just yet. I’ve checked the fuse behind the screen, inside the front control, and it both appears good, and has continuity, checked with a multimeter. What else might I check? My machine sounds like it powers up, the LCDs on the boards in the cabinet illuminate (top axis board says ‘A6’ upon attempts to start up) and I can illuminate the buttons below the monitor by depressing them, and the reset soft key button beeps when pressed, but I still have no monitor. Should I start a new thread?

  14. #14

    Re: Mitsubishi MELDAS L3/M3 monitor problem

    I have boards in a box marked ‘Mitsubishi Numerical Control System FCAM3A, individual boards are marked MC713/727, MC1619-1, MC303, MC301 at about navel height, then RF203, in front of an RF23, in front of some other objects inside of a die cast housing, which are at eye level. The RF203 has the LCD which reads ‘A6’ when powered on. Just to the left of that is my spindle controller, a FR-SGJ, and then at about knee height is an array of relays, 16 of them to be exact.
    Monitor has ~86v ac at the two red wires…

  15. #15
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    Nov 2012
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    361

    Re: Mitsubishi MELDAS L3/M3 monitor problem

    Davey,
    If you are in the United States, why don't you PM me your phone number and timezone. We can figure out a time when we can talk. Bear in mind that this machining stuff is a hobby for me, and I do have a "real" job that takes precedence. However, it might be easier to do all of this with both of us sitting in front of our respective machines. It might take one or two sessions, but I don't think it will be that bad.... I do feel strongly, however, that whatever the learnings are, these should be captured here on the group (either in this thread or another, but I guess we should figure out if a new thread is appropriate first) so that others with similar issues may benefit even after we are both hit with a bus.

    Alan

  16. #16
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    Re: Mitsubishi MELDAS L3/M3 monitor problem

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveyG1987 View Post
    I’ve also checked the battery and it reads 3.72v, so I don’t think I need a new one just yet.
    It is a rechargeable battery. Without power applied, even the original battery probably won't last more than 2 months or so. Given that you have had the machine powered up while you have been trying to get it running, I'm guessing that the 3.7V you are seeing is probably a function of the system having charged the battery. Therefore, your failure to start is still probably due to corrupted memory. The good news is that the charger clearly works (although I've yet to see one that does *not* work).

    I would suggest that you look at replacing the battery proactively every few years. They are not that expensive and you can get a much larger one which will hold your memory for a longer period of time which is convenient if this is a hobby machine in your garage that gets used much less frequently than if it were in an industrial environment. You can always use the way overpriced coin cell type batteries that are OEM, but a NiCAD or NIMH alternate available on Amazon is, in my opinion, a better way to go.

    Be aware that there are several places that are actually using the battery backup. These have super capacitors on them which will supply retention power while you have the battery cartridge removed from the machine. However, they won't last forever. I don't know how many minutes they can supply power, but I've always tried to avoid dilly-dallying. I actually have two battery cartridges and I have an external NiCAD charger that I use to charge up the battery outside of the machine. If I'm not using the machine much, I'll turn it on for a few minutes (note: this means pressing the ON switch too, as that is the only way the card cage will have power to boost the super caps), then turn everything, off, and then swap the cartridges. This has worked well for me.

  17. #17
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    Re: Mitsubishi MELDAS L3/M3 monitor problem

    This is the battery I have used. I like it because it has a high capacity and is still very reasonable in price (about $13USD):

    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by MrMetric View Post
    This is the battery I have used. I like it because it has a high capacity and is still very reasonable in price (about $13USD):

    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1
    Awesome thanks for the link! I tried sending you a message but it says I have messages turned off in my settings, not sure how to fix that, but anyway, I’m in the ‘New York’ US time zone. My number is an Idaho number though (208)921-3818, I’m usually home around 4pm EST.

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