562,359 active members*
3,737 visitors online*
Register for free
Login
Results 1 to 10 of 10
  1. #1
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2022
    Posts
    11

    Looking for advise

    Have decided to convert my LMS3990 to CnC, and need some experienced advise.
    Have been researching for nearly 5 months now on what will be required.
    Finding a retro kit for the ball screws was the worst, have narrowed that down to a kit from cnc conversion for the Sied x2d, I have redesigned the Z axis attachments and will be making them this weekend. What I'm hung up on is the control side of things, so many options/kits/manufactures... my brain is boggled / confused/ sore from deciding, so thought I would ask
    I will be using Fusion for the Cad/Cam
    I want to use Mach4 hobby, or should I just stick with Mach3?
    I'm hung up on whether to go for the WixHC Mach4, or the Warp9 ESS ?
    Not sure what is also required for each, as they don't state it to freely.
    I don't need Tonnes of inputs/outputs, basically the option for a 4th axis down the road, limit switches,
    Stepper kit/drivers I'm looking at using is:
    https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B08...M55UG43X&psc=1
    https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B06...GWISS7BL&psc=1

    Any insight at this time is appreciated, don't want to order stuff that won't work together after I've spent hours trying to get it to work,

    Many thankx in advance
    Randy

  2. #2
    Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    2197

    Re: Looking for advise

    Hi,

    I'm hung up on whether to go for the WixHC Mach4, or the Warp9 ESS ?
    I use Mach4Hobby and have done for eight years, its light years ahead of Mach3, notwithstanding that Mach3 works.
    Under no circumstances consider a WixHC Mach4, they don't work properly, so much so that they won't support the GUI. Avoid XHC like the plague.
    I use an ESS and it works great.

    Ballscrews are the heart of the motion control system, any inaccuracy results in inaccurate parts, not matter the BS 'screw mapping'.
    Rolled C7 ballscrews are cheap and not too bad, 50um over 300mm but have bad cyclic error, 35um per rotation. You really want C5 (C3 is even better)ground ballscrews, unfortunately they are
    eyewateringly expensive, 10 times that of a C7. They are 18um per 300mm but most importantly the cyclic is 8um per rotation. If you are serious about making accurate engineering grade
    parts then you need C5's or better yet C3's.

    Those steppers are wrong, the inductance is 6.8mH. You want low inductance steppers, 1mH-2mH, 1 mH preferred and reject anything over 2mH. Low inductance allows for greater speed without losing steps.
    These high inductance ones will start missing steps at 500rpm, they are cheap and look good, just made to trap new buyers, don't fall for this rubbish.

    The drivers you linked to are 50V max...that's not enough. You should plan on using 80V minimum. The higher the voltage the faster steppers can go without losing steps, so get as high voltage
    drivers you can afford.

    Craig

  3. #3
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2022
    Posts
    11

    Re: Looking for advise

    Hi Craig ty for your feedback.
    I'm just trying to put together a half decent home hobby cnc mill, have been using it for 2 years doing small modifications or new parts for my rc addiction.
    Can't see X/Y feed rates ever hitting 500rpm, and don't need the accuracy of engineered parts, been doing it manually for a couple years and it has been more than accurate, time consuming yes, hence my hard-on too let a computer make those nasty corners with better accuracy.
    I'll take your advice and order the Warp9 ESS, haven't been able to source any steppers lower than 3.8, is it really going to make a difference in my situation?
    tkx again
    randy

  4. #4
    Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    2197

    Re: Looking for advise

    Hi,

    Can't see X/Y feed rates ever hitting 500rpm,
    I heard that before from CNC newcomers....it always comes back to bite them.

    haven't been able to source any steppers lower than 3.8, is it really going to make a difference in my situation?
    Most certainly it does. This is from the Leadshine site, two 24 size steppers of 1mH and 2mH, either would be adequate.

    Craig

  5. #5
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2022
    Posts
    11

    Re: Looking for advise

    Thank you for your input Craig.
    Did order the warp9 Ess with the C25 BoB, ordered 80v drivers, also finally found some 425oz steppers @ 1.8 wired parallel, all should be in in a week.
    Appreciate your input, has helped my brain bog....

  6. #6
    Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    2197

    Re: Looking for advise

    Hi,

    Did order the warp9 Ess with the C25 BoB, ordered 80v drivers, also finally found some 425oz steppers @ 1.8 wired parallel, all should be in in a week.
    That sounds like an excellent combination.

    You may have noticed that low inductance steppers tend also to be high current devices. This comes from using fewer turns of a larger diameter wire. This has two results: the inductance lowers as does
    the resistance. The critical determinant of stepper torque (at speed) is the product of the winding resistance and the inductance, its called the inductive time constant.

    Guessing that your 1.8mH steppers have a resistance of 0.8 ohm or less, as would be typical for steppers of this design type. The time constant is:

    Tconst=0.8 x 1.8 mH
    =1.44ms

    The steppers you linked to at the beginning of this thread have a resistance of 1.6 ohm and an inductance of 6.8mH. The time constant is:

    Tconst= 1.6 x 6.8mH
    =10.88 m2

    So while the difference between 1.8mH and 6.8mH may not seem that dramatic the time constant differs by a factor of 7.5, ie very significant indeed.

    Craig

  7. #7
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2022
    Posts
    11

    Re: Looking for advise

    Yes also learning about torque and amp differences in the different wiring possibilities
    Bipolar/unipolar/bipolar serial/Bipolar parallel lol what did I get into
    Now in a hunt for a power supply to run this all, but first need to figure out what I need?
    Tkx again
    Randy

  8. #8
    Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    2197

    Re: Looking for advise

    Hi,

    Now in a hunt for a power supply to run this all, but first need to figure out what I need?
    If you have three steppers rated at 5A each then that would suggest a power supply capable of 15A. In practice that's a bit of an overkill, its very unlikely that all three steppers would
    be demanding rated current at one time. It would entirely adequate to have a 10A supply, ie enough for two steppers.

    The choice is switch mode supplies or linear supplies. Switch mode is cheaper particularly at higher currents but they are less reliable. A linear supply is rugged and reliable and
    preferred despite the higher initial cost.


    https://www.antekinc.com/ps-10n80-10...-power-supply/

    Craig

  9. #9
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2022
    Posts
    11

    Re: Looking for advise

    Agree, but always like to sway on the overkill side. Picked up a switched 1200w /70v, Will be soldering up a power board with some different output voltages to run the accessory powers 5v/12v/24v. If it doesn't hold up than will replace with a linear down the road.
    Can't believe the size of these 80v drivers, love the internal cooling fan, these totally out do the ones I'm going to use in my laser cutter build, but then again don't need as much umph....

  10. #10
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2022
    Posts
    11

    Re: Looking for advise

    90% of hardware has arrived, dug out some old computers looking for a good donor for this project.
    Knowing Microsoft loves to screw with 3rd party developers unless they get a cut of the mustard, I used to design back in the ol'e days, so know how they don't help....
    Will an old I7 / 2.8 with 8gb and 1TB running win7 premium suffice?
    I know the Win7 is stable as still run it on a couple machines for design and 2 vinyl cutter's, just no longer supported, so if the mach4 software stays supported than?
    Have other machines running win10 and loads of ram/Hd but is that really required?
    Probably hard to say, if they decide to no longer support it in the future?
    Just want to run the standalone machine off mach4 software, and off a nice touch screen.
    BTW, bit the bullet and upgrading all the tooling to tormach tts... another learning curve.
    Maybee over-kill for a hobby machine, but think it will make tool changes more precise and quicker once setup?

  11. #11
    Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    2197

    Re: Looking for advise

    Hi,
    my mill is run by a dual core Atom MiniITX single board PC without a graphics card......a really low power PC, and yet it runs Mach4 just fine.

    Will an old I7 / 2.8 with 8gb and 1TB running win7 premium suffice?
    Yes that will be fine, it's ten or more times more powerful and with double the memory of what I use.

    Craig

  12. #12
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2022
    Posts
    11

    Re: Looking for advise

    Tkx Craig, figured as much, but wanted comforting
    Mach refused to load on the premium edition, loaded up a copy of ultimate and all went well. Now to finish the enclosure for the electronics.

  13. #13
    Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    2197

    Re: Looking for advise

    Hi,
    Mach4 is not a CPU intensive application, what it does require is regular CPU service. Any PC that is running a large number of applications and/or services is
    likely to be able to give Mach4 less frequent bursts of CPU service, with the possibility that your motion controller will 'Run Out Of Data'.

    A very low power PC like mine works as well as it does because I have virtually NO other software loaded on it, and certainly no other software running
    when Mach4 is running. This allows the PC to concentrate on keeping the motion buffer full. Note that I use a motion buffer of 180ms, the default ESS setting.
    If I had a more powerful PC I could probably reduce the motion buffer to 50ms or less. This would naturally require the PC offer Mach4 service at least on a 49ms cycle
    or the buffer will run out and the machine will stall.

    In order to be sure that my low power PC would work I elected to use Windows 7 Embedded Standard. This means that I can install exactly the modules that I require but not load others.
    For instance I deselected the Windows Firewall and Windows Defender, so they are just not loaded, I don't mean on the SSD but disabled, just not on the SSD at all.
    The current Windows7 installation I have installed (for 61/2 years now) is a nearly complete Windows7 installation, nearly identical to a 32 bit Windows 7 retail version.
    On the basis that 'if its not broke...don't fix it' I have not bothered to reinstall the ultimate stripped down OS.

    I have from time to time run my machine on a Windows 8 laptop, early (low spec) i7 with 8GB. I found it worked perfectly. It was my day to day PC so was not inclined to leave it attached
    to my machine, it was after all vulnerable by being Internet connected.

    In order to monitor the suitability/performance of your selected PC you should observe the ESS motion buffer. The closer it remains to 100% full the better suited your PC is.
    It might also inform your decision to reduce the motion buffer if you want.

    Craig

  14. #14
    Registered
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Posts
    1505

    Re: Looking for advise

    I'm using a cheap HP laptop, i5-cpu, 8gb-ram, that I got for £100 to run a UC300eth. Swapping between both Mach3 and UCCNC.
    Chose to use a retail version of Windows7 I had around, and not win10. Once 7 is fresh and set up, that's the end of it.
    You get no updating or other grief.

    It's permanently dedicated to running on the machine. Isn't network connected. All cam files are transfered from the cad pc to the laptop via memory card.

    Virtual box is also installed on it with a copy of win10 in case I do have the need for net access. Using a virtual machine stops anything nasty from getting into win7.


    Getting 80v drivers, 70v psu, to run the nema23 steppers was a good decision.
    I've tested the steppers on my mill upto 800rpm / 4000mm/min without a hitch, pretty much the same driver/psu setup as yours except for my steppers are 3mh-4.5A-566oz.

    I get my psu's from Aliexpress, they have more selection than what's available in the UK.

  15. #15
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2022
    Posts
    11

    Re: Looking for advise

    Yes agree, system was wiped, and a fresh install done, nothing on it but the basics.
    I did see your reply craig on the touch screen question I had asked, did purchase a 13" 1080p, nice and thin and will vesa mount too the case nicely, will see how it works out with my eye/fingers.
    Thankx to UPS, ball screw assemblies are MIA. hope they can find the package and soon as just finishing the electronics enclosure, only thing a bit stumped on is the pulse setting for the drivers? but will get that resolved.
    randy

  16. #16
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2022
    Posts
    11

    Re: Looking for advise

    Ok have been fighting with windows 7 on the .net crap
    Mach4 finally loaded with the win 7 ultimate, but the ess software refuses to without .net 4.0
    Ultimate has 3.? have found D/L links but they fail on install, due to the windows links no longer being supported.
    Will win 10 work fine? Love the sound structure of win 7......
    Or does someone have the 4.0+ file for .net i can place?
    cheers
    randy

  17. #17
    Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    2197

    Re: Looking for advise

    Hi,
    my singleboard dual Atom PC runs 32bit Windows 7 and loads the ESS plugin, although if memory serves it has .net4.....its been six-seven years since I installed it.

    Certainly Mach and the ESS will run on Windows10. If the PC is never connected to the internet, and that is recommended for a machine control PC, then you'll never
    have to worry about updates screwing up your machine.

    Craig

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •