[smyers755]

Does anyone know where I can download a Programming Manual for the OSP-P300M control?

I've been offered a job in another state, but my 25+ years of programming has always been Fanuc Controls and I hear the Macro System on the OSP-P300M is very different.
I do a lot of Custom Macros for Part Families, Probing, Machine Tool Monitoring etc...

I'd like to look at the manuals before I decide to fly out to see the machines.

I've done a Google Search, but all of the manuals I can find are for Okuma Lathes...

[deadlykitten]

programing

[deadlykitten]

special functions 1

[deadlykitten]

special functions 2

anything else ? there are ~25 manuals, but ...

*3 posts, because of upload size limitation

[smyers755]

@deadlykitten

Thank You !

[deadlykitten]

25+ years of programming
I do a lot of Custom Macros for Part Families, Probing, Machine Tool Monitoring etc..

with your experience, you should catch things very fast

you can macro all those, etc; g-code different syntax should be no issue, and you may notice that once you have a similar okuma macro to an fanuc macro, you could develop the okuma macro beyond what you thought was possible before

over the macro, you can use software application for parametrization not possible, or hard to implement at g-code level, and many things will be at your finger tips

I hear the Macro System on the OSP-P300M is very different

it easy; feel free to ask whatever you wish / kindly

[smyers755]

OK, thanks to deadlykitten I spent the last few weeks reading the OSP-P300 Control manuals and I can now understand the code their Mastercam/Okuma Postability post is putting out for the Okuma Horizontal Mills.
Some interesting differences in the code, but nothing too drastic.

Now I'm looking for PDF manuals for the MB-H Series that explain using the actual control from a Setup persons point of view..


All of the MB-4000H's have a 5 Pallet Changer and 146 Tool Matrix

I searched their shop and all of the paper copy manuals have been taken home by previous Setup/Programmers and never made their way back.

[smyers755]

After searching online, I read that Okuma supplies all the manuals for each machine on the actual machine in electronic format.

Can someone explain in detail how I can copy those onto a USB stick?

I'd need an explanation as if talking to someone who knows absolutely zero about using an OSP 300 control.

Just walking up and looking at the machines, they look like some sort of Microsoft Windows based system to me.

My big issue is these machines are running 24/7 production, so I can't spend time "playing" around to figure out where they store things and how to get "Non-CNC Program" files copied off one.

Any help would be appreciated!

[deadlykitten]

PDF manuals for the MB-H

hy there are online sources for okuma manuals, but youll need to search a bit, and you may not find something as expected, but only an apropiate version

Okuma supplies all the manuals for each machine on the actual machine in electronic format

that's true, since p300, and those manuals have particularities to suit that machine, and are more likely under latest revision

knows absolutely zero about using an OSP 300 control

put usb stick in, and windows prompt should allow to open the windows explorer, otherwise navigate from alt+tab or ctrl+escape, i guess you know windows pretty well

search *.pdf in D:\; once you find the folder, copy it : operation will take a while, but machine can run meanwhile

pdfs are in different languages; for english, simply keep the ones begining with LE or SE or TLE ( check attached )

[smyers755]

:violin:
I've gone through every User Manual stored on the hard drive in the Machines and even found a Factory sealed large box with 15+ Hard Copy Manuals - but none of the manuals mention two critically important features of these new Horizontals.

There is nothing about the Dynamic Offsets and ZERO about how to operate the 6 Pallet controller.
The Operators Manual Part #2 talks about how to recover the Pallet Changer if it gets stuck, but it doesn't tell you how to use it to move pallets OUT/IN to the Loading Station or Machines.

I played with pallet controller for half an hour and figured out how to use it.
(IN means send the pallet OUT from the loading station and OUT means load a pallet IN to the Loading Station from the storage.)


Same with the OO88 Dynamic Offset routine... it's not in any included manual and so far I can only "Google find" a manual that talks about OO88 on a 5-Axis Okuma.
Seems to work the same on a 3+1 as a 5-Axis... but why no mention of it any of the Programming Manuals?

Same problem with the Factory Installed Tool Setter and the OO30 function.
The only information available is on this and other user forums... no manuals to read.

Good thing Renishaw gave us the Set And Inspect USB Sticks else no one would know how the Probes work on these Okumas either.


Why doesn't Okuma include User Manuals that explain all of the functions of their machines?
Is Google the only way to find out how these machines work?


I'm beginning to think Okuma makes things difficult on purpose...:tired:

[deadlykitten]

hy smyers you are getting more and more involved, aren't you ? i will take things one at a time

[ OO88 ] : this okuma macro can handle up to 2 rotary axis, and is an option :
... if option was not delivered with new machine, then there is no manual for it
... some programers simply create their own such macro, because is nothing but a little trigonometry just search OO88 in this forum, and you will find some examples, and even a pdf on this function, shared by superman ( https://www.cnczone.com/forums/okuma...p-p300m-h.html )
... for those that don't have oo88, and also are not able to code their version of it, they may do some research and find the OO88 or something similar, or even be charged by an okuma dealer at full option price

regardless if you use the okuma macro or not, in the end, for complex stuff, may be required to also probe in order to increase accuracy, thus the macro itself does not quarantee full accuracy, but only rough positioning


[ OO30 ] : this is explained inside the manuals, how to use, how to calibrate, etc; a few pages, you can find them using an in-file search, for OO30


[Set And Inspect ] : this is an application developed by a non okuma entity so how it works, is not covered directly inside an okuma manual

but, like every such probing, it requires macros; in the end, all action is done by that macro so, it may use an okuma macro, or a non okuma macro, same story like the OO88; regardless of the macro source, it will use okuma g-codes, and trust me, the okuma g-code for probing/gauging, are explained, there are manuals for such stuff

so, when it comes to probing, the macro can be from okuma, or from another source; futher more, that macro may be accesed :
... thorugh g-code directly by someone who knows what he does
... through a software ( like "set and inspect" or "excel", etc ), and that software will output the code automatically

it takes less time to learn to use "set and inspect", than to dig the okuma manuals on this, but besides "set and inspect" there are other softwares that do the same things

some programers take action, and simply rewrite the original macro, so to make it behave faster, etc

let's say you wish to upgrade the probe to a full, real 3d type; if you buy the probe, you won't be able to fully use it without the g-codes, and is not possible to figure them out without knowledge for normal probes, and some vendors do not sell the macros, but their full software ( and few vendors have in-depth knowledge of what they sell, or wish to share knowledge ); so, what do you do ? there are in between methods, but i think you allready have a vision of how it works ... and this is available not only for okuma machine, but whatever machines that uses probes

The Operators Manual Part #2 talks about how to recover the Pallet Changer if it gets stuck, but it doesn't tell you how to use it to move pallets OUT/IN to the Loading Station or Machines

the pallet changer is part of the machine, so is normal for the machine to have a panel menu, or at least some explanations of how to operate it

but the pallet pool, is not part of the machine, may be produced by okuma, or a non okuma entity; it must have sepparate manuals, and is possible that, if such phisical manuals exist, to not have been shipped to the factory at same moment with the cnc machine ... there is no standard aproach for such a task, and depends on how the pallete pool is conected to the cnc

at this moment, i don't understand if your issue is with the pallet moving inside the machine, or moving inside the pool ?

Why doesn't Okuma include User Manuals that explain all of the functions of their machines?

manuals cover basic functions, but okuma osp is versatile, and may allow different implementations for similar actions

I'm beginning to think Okuma makes things difficult on purpose...

don't feel discouraged, there is a reason why things are how they are / kindly

[smyers755]

hy smyers you are getting more and more involved, aren't you ? i will take things one at a time

[ OO88 ] : this okuma macro can handle up to 2 rotary axis, and is an option :
... if option was not delivered with new machine, then there is no manual for it

This option was ordered at the same time as the three Machines, but no manuals were included.
The last Programmer said he got all the information doing Google searches and calling Hartwig support.
Even doing Google searches only comes up with OO88 on a 5-Axis Mill.

[ OO30 ] : this is explained inside the manuals, how to use, how to calibrate, etc; a few pages, you can find them using an in-file search, for OO30

I did perform and internal PDF word search on the entire document library (even the Japanese files) using Agent Ransack.

The Tool Setter and Probe Systems were Factory installed, but the only two manuals that have any information are:
SPECIAL FUNCTIONS MANUAL No. 1 -- ME32-128-R11a.pdf were there is one single line talking about how to set the Spindle orientation angle and
ALARM & ERROR LIST No. 1 -- ME37-008-R10a.pdf were the Alarm codes are listed.

There is no mention of this feature in any other included manuals, electronic or printed.
Like the Dynamic Offset feature, they used Google/Hartwig Tech Support to figure it out....sort of.

[Set And Inspect ] : this is an application developed by a non okuma entity so how it works, is not covered directly inside an okuma manual

I know, and it's a good thing the documentation was done by Renishaw and not Okuma.

This feature is extremely well documented and works perfectly.....
...except one thing: Renishaw does not support Okuma machines with X-Z or Y-Z Diameter Probing, something I really need for the parts made at this factory (it's a Manufacturer, not a Job Shop)

Renishaw informed me today that this feature is only available on machines that support Fanuc Style Macro Programming (like Haas)

...the pallet changer is part of the machine, so is normal for the machine to have a panel menu, or at least some explanations of how to operate it

but the pallet pool, is not part of the machine, may be produced by okuma, or a non okuma entity; it must have sepparate manuals, and is possible that, if such phisical manuals exist, to not have been shipped to the factory at same moment with the cnc machine ... there is no standard aproach for such a task, and depends on how the pallete pool is conected to the cnc

These are all Okuma Factory Made/Installed 6 Pallet systems, and Okuma did not provide any Manuals.

I talked to the people that were here when the Machines were installed and they said the only training on the Pallet Controllers was done by the Installation Tech showing the guys how to use it.
Nothing was printed, it was all verbal instructions and hand written notes.

Either way, I got the Pallet System figured out, but I've been using Pallet Pools on Horizontals for decades and the terminology Okuma uses makes no sense to me.
What does work is to think backwards. Then it makes sense.

All-in-all they are nicely built machines and function well enough.
I just wish Okuma would do like most other CNC Machine manufactures and make ALL of their manuals available online.

(And I wish they had a Fanuc Compatible Mode so I could use regular Macros and Renishaw X-Z Probing.)

[deadlykitten]

seems you are missing some manuals pls check attached for oo30 and 88; how macros are allready inside the machine, testing them should be easy; to avoid full reading, you may search 1st for 'call' examples, and figure out what each argument is doing, then read the context

30 has :
... z offset detection :
...... centered ( for drills )
...... offset at specific spindle orientation ( for large indexable facemills )
... calibration mode
... tool breakage detection

on mill i used only z detection senzors; recently, have popped up senzors that can be touched from x or y, thus not only from z direction

88 i never used it; when rotation was involved, i used formulas, or i probed to determine angle

and make ALL of their manuals available online

storing the pdf's inside the machine is a good idea, yet for some topics is needed to search more than 1 manual, or through manuals of a different machine

thus information is scattered through different places

Renishaw does not support Okuma machines with X-Z or Y-Z Diameter Probing

pls provide a picture/video, so to figure out what you need, how the axis should move, etc

I got the Pallet System figured out

good for you normally, your local okuma rep should assist you by phone at least ?!

And I wish they had a Fanuc Compatible Mode so I could use regular Macros and Renishaw X-Z Probing

look for "tape conversion" inside special functions 1 manual; there is suport for normal codes, but i don't know if there is also for probing ? i never used this, so ... kindly

[smyers755]

Thanks for the Manuals, that helps a lot!

As far as what I need to do with the Renishaw Probe is, I have a L-Shaped Probe that can reach inside the bores shown in the attached pic.

The Bore is Parallel to the Y-Axis, so I can't just rotate to reach it.
It's a Bearing diameter that measures 1.0000 +/-.0002

On other CNC Machines that use Fanuc style Macros we can use the Probe and pick up the diameter and center using Probe X-Z Circular, but Renishaw doesn't have that option available for Okuma OSP Controls.

[smyers755]

Reading this GAUGING SYSTEMS Manual you posted makes me think Okuma has the ability to X-Z probe, but it's most likely not provided on 4-Axis Machines.

They talk about using M76 to swivel the head on a MCM into X-Z orientation, then probing X+/X-/Z+/Z- ... exactly what I'm looking for on my regular MB4000-H Horizontals.

I wonder if there's a way to get the Macros for this..I'd need a X-Z Calibration and X-Z Centering routine.

[Superman]

It may not be possible on any plain, run-of-the-mill Okuma machines
The grey matter seems to recall that when calibrating a probe, the offset from each directional touch is stored in a fixed memory area ( I think the D300-D308 fields, it is 15years ago)
The specific field entry is applied to the machine position (depending on travel direction) upon touch to give values that are interpreted by the OO30 string, and what you want displayed back to you.

The 4 touch points in XY plane are only on the axis lines, so you cannot really probe an angled face with accuracy. Any probing on angled surfaces should be for checking purposes only.

[smyers755]

Just to be clear, the parts are orientated flat at 90 degrees, parallel to Y, perpendicular to X and Z
When I mentioned tilting the head on a MCM and using M76, the tilt would be a full 90 degrees.

It can be done on any Fanuc Control or clone (like Haas) using an Off-The-Shelf Macro available from Renishaw.

[deadlykitten]

hello again as i see it, there are 4 identical parts on the tombstone, that have that long pipe, allready machined in a previous fixture, etc

you wish to index B0, find the center of the pipe, shift your wcs, cut, then repeat at B 90 270 8500

The Bore is Parallel to the Y-Axis, so I can't just rotate to reach it.
It's a Bearing diameter that measures 1.0000 +/-.0002

mainly, you need to locate the center, while finding also the diameter is secondary, thus should be less relevant, because it should had been allready checked at the previous machining stage; in other words, even if you find the diameter, you may choose :
... to ignore it
... to check it's value, as a safety routine, and if not in given bounds, then raise an error thus the error, that will pop up, may anounce at least one of the followings :
...... diameter out of tolerance
...... probe calibration lost
i recomand the checking method

thus, so far, i don't focus on code, but process code comes after

for such parts, you don't need oo88; i don't say that 88 is not good, but it shows its value when you index 2 rotary axis at values that are not 0 90 180 270, but something more rational, more digits, more random ...

that image shows simetrical parts on each tombstone face, so coding should be simpler :

CALL OCODE for varB=0
CALL OCODE for varB=90
CALL OCODE for varB=180
CALL OCODE for varB=270

OCODE
load neutral wcs, like G15 H1
index B axis at varB
probe
check probing results
load result into different wcs, like H2 ... just not H1
cut

main safety idea behind that code, is to always index your B axis in a wcs that is not affected by probing, otherwise, you may end up stacking deviations a neutral wcs allows later for debuging, just like how you could find errors in the file that is generated after probing

it's a Manufacturer, not a Job Shop

if such a setup is a long term one, then you can use a different aproach :
... previous one involves indexing B axis only once for each part, then finishing that part
... having the B axis indexed 4 times for each tool, thus minimize the atc operations, only if proven worthy thus you probe all those parts, and assign probe values in wcs 2 3 4 5, etc, then begin cutting; another benefit of this aproach, is that you may probe, then make chips, otherwise, is possible to have chips messing up your probe ... such an aproach works safer, but it requires to be aware of B axis repetition accuracy, maybe indexing B axis not at full rapid, but feed, etc ....

I wonder if there's a way to get the Macros for this..I'd need a X-Z Calibration and X-Z Centering routine

let's try

then probing X+/X-/Z+/Z-

that is a 4 touch-off code ... accurate probing for diameters involves 6 or 3 touchofs; 6 with normal probe, or 3 with advanced probe

only 4 points will not deliver maximum accuracy from the machine, and the deviation decreases as diameter increases ...

I have a L-Shaped Probe

in that set&inspect, do you have simple touch off, like only x+ , x-, z- and z+ ? definetly there should be x+x- and z-, as they are common stuff for normal probes

if you don't have z+, then :
... check attached image
...... or
... edit the output code

give it a try, with your normal probe, in step-by-step, low feed, etc; is not required to achieve a touch off with yout part, but simply trigger the probe with your finger; be safe, be sure that you don't block the light from the senzor, thus find a position where the optical sign from the probe will be detected by that receiver, etc; you could do this with your normal probe, as it should allready be calibrated, etc, while if infos are missing with your l-shape, then it may move unpredictibly

to trigger a probe, is not needed much force, also is not needed much overtravel, so be gentle
required force is :
... > than the one needed to move the needle of an interapid dial indicator
... < then the one needed to mode the dial of a normal indicator
overtravel should be a few 0.1s of a mm

if you have not done this before, take measures, not to abuse the probe for example, try to play finger football with a feather ... but a little one, like from a small hamburger chicken, not those used in ancient egipt to keep the kings cool

in order to continue, there has to be independent code for each x+ x- z+ z- alone, thus no combinations at this moment, only individual touchoffs / kindly

[smyers755]

Sorry, I should have mentioned that the photo is just to show the orientation of the XYZ origin on the tombstones and does not represent the actual parts.
That's a tombstone I found a CAD file for online that had parts in the similar type of alignment as we use.

The actual parts are extremely complex with several hundred features machined from 16 different angles on the tombstone, but they are orientated with the controlling feature in Y like that.
I cannot post pictures of the real parts online.


I'm currently looking into adding G14 / AXIS NAME DESIGNATION FUNCTION option to the Okuma so we can use the same procedure as used on the Fanuc machines.
With that we can map Y to Z and Z to Y and run standard Renishaw Calibration and Probing Macros, then transfer the calculated offset locations between Y and Z.

[deadlykitten]

photo is just to show the orientation ... actual parts are extremely complex

off course, what was i thinking ?

AXIS NAME DESIGNATION ... With that we can map Y to Z and Z to Y and run standard Renishaw

even if you would have the option enabled, i don't think it would work, because machine state is no longer blank/default; machine can be used in default or custom modes, and most custom modes can only be activated over the blank state, they can't be stacked

example of custom modes :
... geometrical / wcs transformation ( translation, rotation, scaling, mirror, slope, axis name )
... probing
... nurbs, etc

the probing macro can not be enabled not even over simple modified wcs ( as basic translation + rotation ), and uses variables that read encoder origins, thus it operates in a blank mode

the logic needed to deal with stacked modes is way too complex, and i don't see a real case where a stack would be justified; sometimes the machine reverses back to blank, like to execute a tool change, or home position, then goes back to the custom mode / kindly