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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    241

    Spindle Fluctuating Speeds

    The spindle fluctuates speed.

    Spindle Specs: 2.2kw, 400Hz, 10A

    The VFD outputs 9.98v

    If I set the spindle to 12,000rpm, the return control voltage is a steady 5.82v (should it not be 5.0v?)
    - How can I calibrate that to 5v at 12,000rpm?
    Giving roughly 16,000rpm, but it fluctuates between 16-18,000rpm.

    Any way to correct that? I have not come across anything to help this and seems it might be the VFD itself?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZaCG...annel=Mogalize

    Another machine with the same issues:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1uoz...=CNCWoodworker
    My Build: http://www.cnczone.com/forums/diy-cnc_router_table_machines/113711-my_build_-_many_thanks.html

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    15362

    Re: Spindle Fluctuating Speeds

    Quote Originally Posted by Mogal View Post
    The spindle fluctuates speed.

    Spindle Specs: 2.2kw, 400Hz, 10A

    The VFD outputs 9.98v

    If I set the spindle to 12,000rpm, the return control voltage is a steady 5.82v (should it not be 5.0v?)
    - How can I calibrate that to 5v at 12,000rpm?
    Giving roughly 16,000rpm, but it fluctuates between 16-18,000rpm.

    Any way to correct that? I have not come across anything to help this and seems it might be the VFD itself?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZaCG...annel=Mogalize

    Another machine with the same issues:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1uoz...=CNCWoodworker
    Do you have a Pot on the Breakout Board that can be adjusted, what control are you using.

    What have you used for wiring the 0-10v Board to the VFD Drive
    Mactec54

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    241

    Re: Spindle Fluctuating Speeds

    Hi, I am using UC300ETH-UB1 (UCCNC) with a HY02D223B.
    No pot on the BOB.
    Using shielded 16/4 from the UB1 to VFD.

    Wiring:
    UB1 - VFD
    AH1 - 10v - Verified at 9.98v
    AO1 - VI - return voltage at 12,000rpm is 5.82v
    AL1 - ACM

    Everything I have read tells me its the VFD itself, and one has confirmed the same results.
    I've heard of adding a small microfarad cap on the control line, but some had no real results.

    So at this point, I can run it with manual speed control without issues (its how the old machine ran)
    - Manually, the speed is rock solid
    - But I would like to get the speed control working. I'd rather not use the RS485 cable as I have no more USB ports avail.

    What are some reputable VFD's for a 2.2kw spindle with reliable speed control?
    - I'm willing to get a new VFD as this one can be used for another machine.

    Thanks.
    My Build: http://www.cnczone.com/forums/diy-cnc_router_table_machines/113711-my_build_-_many_thanks.html

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    15362

    Re: Spindle Fluctuating Speeds

    Quote Originally Posted by Mogal View Post
    Hi, I am using UC300ETH-UB1 (UCCNC) with a HY02D223B.
    No pot on the BOB.
    Using shielded 16/4 from the UB1 to VFD.

    Wiring:
    UB1 - VFD
    AH1 - 10v - Verified at 9.98v
    AO1 - VI - return voltage at 12,000rpm is 5.82v
    AL1 - ACM

    Everything I have read tells me its the VFD itself, and one has confirmed the same results.
    I've heard of adding a small microfarad cap on the control line, but some had no real results.

    So at this point, I can run it with manual speed control without issues (its how the old machine ran)
    - Manually, the speed is rock solid
    - But I would like to get the speed control working. I'd rather not use the RS485 cable as I have no more USB ports avail.

    What are some reputable VFD's for a 2.2kw spindle with reliable speed control?

    - I'm willing to get a new VFD as this one can be used for another machine.

    Thanks.
    No never use any caps on anything like this

    How have you terminated the shield this is important

    It's from your control that the voltage is high there has to be some adjustments you can do in UCCNC to get the output voltage lower look at the PWM settings, you should always get the voltage correct at the Board level before connecting to the VFD Drive

    The VFD Drive you have is one of the best low cost, VFD Drives and don't normally have too much problem with speed control I'm surprised though that your VFD Drive does not have the Pot on it, makes me wonder if it is Genuine HY can you post a photo of the Logic Terminals
    Mactec54

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    15362

    Re: Spindle Fluctuating Speeds

    Quote Originally Posted by Mogal View Post
    Hi, I am using UC300ETH-UB1 (UCCNC) with a HY02D223B.
    No pot on the BOB.
    Using shielded 16/4 from the UB1 to VFD.

    Wiring:
    UB1 - VFD
    AH1 - 10v - Verified at 9.98v
    AO1 - VI - return voltage at 12,000rpm is 5.82v
    AL1 - ACM

    Everything I have read tells me its the VFD itself, and one has confirmed the same results.
    I've heard of adding a small microfarad cap on the control line, but some had no real results.

    So at this point, I can run it with manual speed control without issues (its how the old machine ran)
    - Manually, the speed is rock solid
    - But I would like to get the speed control working. I'd rather not use the RS485 cable as I have no more USB ports avail.

    What are some reputable VFD's for a 2.2kw spindle with reliable speed control?
    - I'm willing to get a new VFD as this one can be used for another machine.

    Thanks.
    I just see something in you Build do you have the VFD Drive on a separate Power source 240V and the cabinet on a 120v supply
    Mactec54

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Posts
    28

    Re: Spindle Fluctuating Speeds

    Is you PWM Frequency hz set to 1524 as outlined in the manual?


    Also, something I found out recently with the UB1 is that it is pre-soldered with the following configuration:

    On page 19 of the UB1 manual

    "*5 Analog1 (AO1) pin select
    The pin for AnaSpeed Analog circuit channel 1, lets the user chose between ANA1*, the UC300 dedicate pin and Y401. The default setting is Y401."

    I missed this during my configuration as well. My spindle speed doesn't fluctuate quite as bad as your initial YT video (because of the PWM hz is set to 1524). I have to label all of my wires and flip mine over and de-solder and re-solder to the "ana1". I have yet to do this, but in this thread it seemed have worked: forum.cncdrive.com • View topic - 10V for VFD control UC300 ETH UB1

    I don't understand why it is pre-soldered to Y401 which would be for the UD1 daugther board. If someone knows this please explain.

    Back of the board solder pins.


    Hope this helps.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Screenshot 2023-01-03 005637.jpg  

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Posts
    28

    Re: Spindle Fluctuating Speeds

    Quote Originally Posted by district7 View Post
    Is you PWM Frequency hz set to 1524 as outlined in the manual?


    Also, something I found out recently with the UB1 is that it is pre-soldered with the following configuration:

    On page 19 of the UB1 manual

    "*5 Analog1 (AO1) pin select
    The pin for AnaSpeed Analog circuit channel 1, lets the user chose between ANA1*, the UC300 dedicate pin and Y401. The default setting is Y401."

    I missed this during my configuration as well. My spindle speed doesn't fluctuate quite as bad as your initial YT video (because of the PWM hz is set to 1524). I have to label all of my wires and flip mine over and de-solder and re-solder to the "ana1". I have yet to do this, but in this thread it seemed have worked: forum.cncdrive.com • View topic - 10V for VFD control UC300 ETH UB1

    I don't understand why it is pre-soldered to Y401 which would be for the UD1 daugther board. If someone knows this please explain.

    Back of the board solder pins.


    Hope this helps.
    This information I provided isn't correct. I asked the UB1 manufacturer.

    He said about Y401, becasuse of the confustion: "When the UB1 operates in UC300ETH_UB1 mode (set by jumper), the Y401 is stolen from the UD1 board to generate the PWM-Analog signal for A01. In this case, you cannot use Y401 on the UD1 board. But you can see the LED lights on both Y401 and AO1 flickering at the same rhythm.

    The answer is you should leave solder-bridge [5] connected to Y401."

    Asking him about what should be expected of speed and PWM hz consistency:

    "We can only expect the right voltage output at about mid range of speed command. Let's say you have set a value of 24000 rpm for the pulley ratio; the right voltage output would be at 12000 rpm. then above and below the midpoint, the error will go wider.

    You may adjust the right voltage output for the spindle speed that you frequently use by increasing and decreasing the PWM frequency from the default value of 1524 HZ. (Please see page 24 of the UB1 manual.)

    The linearity of the AnaSpeed2 circuit used in the MB2 and UB1 products is not as good as AnaSpeed3 circuit which is used in the MB3."

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    241

    Re: Spindle Fluctuating Speeds

    Hi all, I finally got the parts needed to rewire the spindle.
    And Yeah! It fixed the fluctuating speeds issue.

    But now the new problem, cuz you know, one step forward

    I set 12,000rpm, and the actually speed is 15,xxx. (Can't remember the exact number)
    Set 6,000rpm and get 9,xxx
    I'm sure I saw something about this before. Gunna go hit the notes...
    My Build: http://www.cnczone.com/forums/diy-cnc_router_table_machines/113711-my_build_-_many_thanks.html

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    15362

    Re: Spindle Fluctuating Speeds

    Quote Originally Posted by Mogal View Post
    Hi all, I finally got the parts needed to rewire the spindle.
    And Yeah! It fixed the fluctuating speeds issue.

    But now the new problem, cuz you know, one step forward

    I set 12,000rpm, and the actually speed is 15,xxx. (Can't remember the exact number)
    Set 6,000rpm and get 9,xxx
    I'm sure I saw something about this before. Gunna go hit the notes...
    Thats a good start in the right direction wiring is always the important part, just the control now to adjust it so you get a 10v max output for 24000 RPM or 5v for 12000 this is the PWM to Analog 0-10v output that you need to be adjusting, nothing in the VFD Drive at this point

    If you have changed any Parameters in the VFD Drive related to the 0-10v then put them back to default settings, you have to get the Voltage output from the control corrected things to check Pulley setting and PWM settings if your breakout Board has a trim pot some small adjustments can be made here.
    Mactec54

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    474
    Quote Originally Posted by Mogal View Post
    The spindle fluctuates speed.

    Spindle Specs: 2.2kw, 400Hz, 10A

    The VFD outputs 9.98v

    If I set the spindle to 12,000rpm, the return control voltage is a steady 5.82v (should it not be 5.0v?)
    - How can I calibrate that to 5v at 12,000rpm?
    Giving roughly 16,000rpm, but it fluctuates between 16-18,000rpm.

    Any way to correct that? I have not come across anything to help this and seems it might be the VFD itself?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZaCG...annel=Mogalize

    Another machine with the same issues:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1uoz...=CNCWoodworker
    Digital voltmeters show voltage RMS value, so the fluctuations could be there without you seeing it, a dirty signal can affect spindle speed.
    Check the 5.82v with scope meter, this voltage could be fluctuating between 4 to 7 volts with an RMS of 5.82

    I've had this issue a few times over the years.

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