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IndustryArena Forum > CNC Electronics > SmoothStepper Motion Control > Quick audit please of this diagram?
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  1. #1
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    Quick audit please of this diagram?

    Purchasing an ATC Spindle I found the BOB I have been using for many years has finally run out of I/Os. Infact I have several inputs for tool setting and probing, in NO and NC configurations, which I have put a small board together with a LCC110 to accept these different inputs to go into one pin. Know what I mean?

    Its become apparent I need to draw up my wiring diagram proper so I guess when I am dead, or if someone buys my machine (god forbid) they then have a chance of troubleshooting a fault. Although lets be real its all pretty basic stuff huh? Anyways...... I am drawing it up. And will label all my wire ends with sleeves/numbers/letters.

    Upgrading to Mach 4. Am yet to draw in my PWM to Analog converter for spindle. Also to add is spindle I/Os for the ATC. That will come.

    Now that I don't have to tie up several inputs into one pin. I am just checking that I am doing this correctly with a couple of questions for a elec Guru.

    1) BOB#1 and BOB#2 Input Grounds. The pins on these two BOBs, 10,11,12,13,15 are opto isolated. I believe are on a 12vdc circuit. Is it correct that I would common up the grounds on these two boards, or is this a ground loop fault issue if I do? I would have thought this will work fine.

    2) Now that I have a bunch of new input pins, is it best practice I have all these inputs on their own pins? Currently, I would have a probe, tool setter, and a flying lead with ground is connected to my frame. This gives me a bunch of options to set my Z.

    3) Common BOB GND with the machine frame. Is this poor practice? The frame, everything, will be super bonded and grounded with a live earth about 5m from the machine.

    4) The BOBs are Chinese using a USB input for their 5V power. Measuring the USB pins I have a direct line across to the PC5v pins. I am planning on powering the BOBs through these in the place of the USB lead. Make sense and not a wrong move?

    5) Driver 2HSS86H has input parameters of 24-75VAC or 30-110VDC the highest of the two voltages I can input into these being 110VDC (I need to confirm) My thoughts are to go 110VDC because I hear the highest voltage I can run these on the better. Any preferences I might have missed? AC or DC or it doesn't matter?

    6) I still need to work out my E-Stop circuit to safety my machine up.

  2. #2
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    Re: Quick audit please of this diagram?

    Quote Originally Posted by boydage View Post
    Purchasing an ATC Spindle I found the BOB I have been using for many years has finally run out of I/Os. Infact I have several inputs for tool setting and probing, in NO and NC configurations, which I have put a small board together with a LCC110 to accept these different inputs to go into one pin. Know what I mean?

    Its become apparent I need to draw up my wiring diagram proper so I guess when I am dead, or if someone buys my machine (god forbid) they then have a chance of troubleshooting a fault. Although lets be real its all pretty basic stuff huh? Anyways...... I am drawing it up. And will label all my wire ends with sleeves/numbers/letters.

    Upgrading to Mach 4. Am yet to draw in my PWM to Analog converter for spindle. Also to add is spindle I/Os for the ATC. That will come.

    Now that I don't have to tie up several inputs into one pin. I am just checking that I am doing this correctly with a couple of questions for a elec Guru.

    1) BOB#1 and BOB#2 Input Grounds. The pins on these two BOBs, 10,11,12,13,15 are opto isolated. I believe are on a 12vdc circuit. Is it correct that I would common up the grounds on these two boards, or is this a ground loop fault issue if I do? I would have thought this will work fine.

    2) Now that I have a bunch of new input pins, is it best practice I have all these inputs on their own pins? Currently, I would have a probe, tool setter, and a flying lead with ground is connected to my frame. This gives me a bunch of options to set my Z.

    3) Common BOB GND with the machine frame. Is this poor practice? The frame, everything, will be super bonded and grounded with a live earth about 5m from the machine.

    4) The BOBs are Chinese using a USB input for their 5V power. Measuring the USB pins I have a direct line across to the PC5v pins. I am planning on powering the BOBs through these in the place of the USB lead. Make sense and not a wrong move?

    5) Driver 2HSS86H has input parameters of 24-75VAC or 30-110VDC the highest of the two voltages I can input into these being 110VDC (I need to confirm) My thoughts are to go 110VDC because I hear the highest voltage I can run these on the better. Any preferences I might have missed? AC or DC or it doesn't matter?

    6) I still need to work out my E-Stop circuit to safety my machine up.
    Wiring looks ok, I can see it is work in progress, as you are missing a few components Like Breakers for the main VFD input circuit a main cabinet input power disconnect.

    5v sharing is fine but using each Breakout Boards commons as (1) may cause some problems, some Breakout Boards require Isolated Coms so need to know more about the Boards being used

    Will these USB Breakout Boards work with Mach4, or do you have a Smooth Stepper, and these are just attached to the Smooth Stepper Board

    What is the Breakout Board you are going to use

    As for your drive voltage use what is the most convenient if the dc is a filtered supply, then that may be a better option if you have it, the Ac will work fine as well and may be easier to use with just a step-down Transformer

    Your EStop circuit as long as you can disable all the Enables and stop all drives this is ok for most machines like yours a safety Relay in the circuit is the best, these are expensive though so most don't use them.
    Mactec54

  3. #3
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    Re: Quick audit please of this diagram?

    Quote Originally Posted by mactec54 View Post
    Wiring looks ok, I can see it is work in progress, as you are missing a few components Like Breakers for the main VFD input circuit a main cabinet input power disconnect.

    5v sharing is fine but using each Breakout Boards commons as (1) may cause some problems, some Breakout Boards require Isolated Coms so need to know more about the Boards being used

    Will these USB Breakout Boards work with Mach4, or do you have a Smooth Stepper, and these are just attached to the Smooth Stepper Board

    What is the Breakout Board you are going to use

    As for your drive voltage use what is the most convenient if the dc is a filtered supply, then that may be a better option if you have it, the Ac will work fine as well and may be easier to use with just a step-down Transformer

    Your EStop circuit as long as you can disable all the Enables and stop all drives this is ok for most machines like yours a safety Relay in the circuit is the best, these are expensive though so most don't use them.
    Thanks. I have left out the line voltage control circuit, I guess I am drawing this up for troubleshooting and any registered electrician should be able to work on a power control circuit. Would you agree? I have isolation and protection on the input. I took your advice last time and put a three phase filter on my input side so pleased I am not purchasing another one ha.

    Yes I have an ESS Smoothstepper in the post along with a Mach 4 license. I was going to finish my drawing but thought best I pop a pic of the breakout boards I am using. I have heaps of them here. What do you think? I thought about the pins 10,11,12,13,15 and it appears they are 100% iso isolated from any circuitry except for the 12v input. With this info there is no need to common the GND but I think it wont matter. What I need to work out is how the ESS assigns inputs ie I am expecting to see a large list of available pins. (hopefully). Loving the idea of this upgrade up to now its been all structural.

    Oh, I have bought 5 DIN mounted fuse holders which I am going to protect my board input powers with separately. Hey so I have attached the BOB(s) I am planning on using, very common and cheap. Any reason they wont be suitable? This is my main reason for an early reply best I confirm this now huh? I have been running a large machine with one of these for years.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails BOB.jpg  

  4. #4
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    Re: Quick audit please of this diagram?

    Quote Originally Posted by boydage View Post
    Thanks. I have left out the line voltage control circuit, I guess I am drawing this up for troubleshooting and any registered electrician should be able to work on a power control circuit. Would you agree? I have isolation and protection on the input. I took your advice last time and put a three phase filter on my input side so pleased I am not purchasing another one ha.

    Yes I have an ESS Smoothstepper in the post along with a Mach 4 license. I was going to finish my drawing but thought best I pop a pic of the breakout boards I am using. I have heaps of them here. What do you think? I thought about the pins 10,11,12,13,15 and it appears they are 100% iso isolated from any circuitry except for the 12v input. With this info there is no need to common the GND but I think it wont matter. What I need to work out is how the ESS assigns inputs ie I am expecting to see a large list of available pins. (hopefully). Loving the idea of this upgrade up to now its been all structural.

    Oh, I have bought 5 DIN mounted fuse holders which I am going to protect my board input powers with separately. Hey so I have attached the BOB(s) I am planning on using, very common and cheap. Any reason they wont be suitable? This is my main reason for an early reply best I confirm this now huh? I have been running a large machine with one of these for years.
    The average registered electrician would not have a clue as to what you are doing, as they are not exposed to machine controls / building, most industrial electricians though would figure it out quite quickly if they had too.

    Those boards are fine and inexpensive this will give you many options with all the Smooth Stepper inputs / output, low voltage isolated Coms should always be kept that way, connecting them to your mains Earth /Ground will introduce noise which you don't want.
    Mactec54

  5. #5
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    Re: Quick audit please of this diagram?

    Current drawing attached and what I have done here is put the ESS together with the 2 BOBs on my dining table with a single stepper/driver connected for testing. Everything is functional inclusive of my chinese pendant which is happy days. The homing setup needs attention but not easily tested for functionality with just a wire-short to trick the controller to think its homed.

    My question for today is about power to my Nema 34 Drivers. Over the years I come across older equipment that I rescue out of the bin. In this I got my hands on 3 x 450VA line voltage to 26vac transformers. Good heavy solid transformers and I am considering using one for each axis Y, Y-Slave, and X. I also have a 1000w 70VDC switching power supply that I could use for the X.

    For me it seems like a good idea to use these transformers, even though they are lower end of the voltage range they are good for 17A each. I have heard its best to supply these drivers with high voltage but this is bird in the hand stuff and I keep thinking it would still be to advantage to use these transformers one per driver. My other option and what's being used now, is that 1000w switching power supply is running my whole machine. Some input to this will push me in the right direction. Or do I need to find a higher voltage larger capacity power supply?

    Funny - for a second I thought how neat it would be to wack 400v into these transformers that would give me a better voltage output. I am too scared of 3 phase to do that lol...... Actually with that in mind, on the input side of these transformers is a +5% a 0 and a -5% screw (3 screws) . I would expect that these would increase (or decrease) my output voltage by 5%? I have not tried it but 5% would add 1.3v not much but all the same.....
    Attached Files Attached Files

  6. #6
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    Re: Quick audit please of this diagram?

    New spindle is about a week away currently in AUS going through customs. Weird because I am in New Zealand. Its not here yet but I cant work out if the spindle needs a 24v supply or not? More research needed I guess but if anyone knows this please let me know? I have seen 3 different specifications on the same unit which is standard across Chinese products. Probably because the intellectual property is copied and not genuine. But back to my initial question, what I gather is the spindle needs 24vdc input is that correct? Makes the most sense but I see no actual requirement.

    This is my new setup. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000...518322296%21sh

    Far out, dont search G Penny into Aliexpress. You will get all kinds of things that are not CNC related - things the imagination goes far, wide, and up. I have had a 4.5kw air cooled G Penny spindle for about 5 years now and it was so good, I bought another G Penny device. Yep

  7. #7
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    Re: Quick audit please of this diagram?

    Quote Originally Posted by boydage View Post
    New spindle is about a week away currently in AUS going through customs. Weird because I am in New Zealand. Its not here yet but I cant work out if the spindle needs a 24v supply or not? More research needed I guess but if anyone knows this please let me know? I have seen 3 different specifications on the same unit which is standard across Chinese products. Probably because the intellectual property is copied and not genuine. But back to my initial question, what I gather is the spindle needs 24vdc input is that correct? Makes the most sense but I see no actual requirement.

    This is my new setup. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000...518322296%21sh

    Far out, dont search G Penny into Aliexpress. You will get all kinds of things that are not CNC related - things the imagination goes far, wide, and up. I have had a 4.5kw air cooled G Penny spindle for about 5 years now and it was so good, I bought another G Penny device. Yep
    It would need the 24v dc for the independent cooling fan, I don't think they have anything built in to run it, the signal connections also need 24v dc
    Mactec54

  8. #8
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    Re: Quick audit please of this diagram?

    Ok that makes sense. I am still not 100% clear on how it all comes together. Slightly annoying the spindle I have has not much documentation with it except for the attached and a torque curve drawing etc.

    Would I be correct in these assumptions?

    Pins 4 and 5 are 24vdc input. But do I then jump them over to pins 7 and 8 to make the fan run when the spindle is running? Doesn't add up to me.

    Also. The tool change operation I am still trying to get a handle on. I supply air to the spindle. If I push the button (when the spindle has stopped) the tool will eject. Pin 1 will output 24v to confirm that. When the new tool is in and locked, pin 1 loses its output and pin 2 has an output. I would use the outputs of these two pins to safety my machine. Correct path?

    Then once I build my auto changer, not sure but I am thinking a 24v input onto pin 6 will release the tool?? The statement on the sheet has pin 6 as an output. So thats confusing too. I guess I will find out quick once I have the unit on a bench.

  9. #9
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    Re: Quick audit please of this diagram?

    Quote Originally Posted by boydage View Post
    Ok that makes sense. I am still not 100% clear on how it all comes together. Slightly annoying the spindle I have has not much documentation with it except for the attached and a torque curve drawing etc.

    Would I be correct in these assumptions?

    Pins 4 and 5 are 24vdc input. But do I then jump them over to pins 7 and 8 to make the fan run when the spindle is running? Doesn't add up to me.

    Also. The tool change operation I am still trying to get a handle on. I supply air to the spindle. If I push the button (when the spindle has stopped) the tool will eject. Pin 1 will output 24v to confirm that. When the new tool is in and locked, pin 1 loses its output and pin 2 has an output. I would use the outputs of these two pins to safety my machine. Correct path?

    Then once I build my auto changer, not sure but I am thinking a 24v input onto pin 6 will release the tool?? The statement on the sheet has pin 6 as an output. So thats confusing too. I guess I will find out quick once I have the unit on a bench.
    One thing be sure to never do is press the Tool Release when the spindle is running or slowing down, it's not nice what happens and has happened to more than one person, the Drawbar welds itself the pneumatic cylinder piston
    Mactec54

  10. #10
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    Re: Quick audit please of this diagram?

    Is that a fact? Ive never used an ATC Spindle. So, tell me, I press the button, air enters the cylinder, piston overcomes a spring, tool releases? Or is it the other way around? Lose air pressure and my tool goes down, and dances across the table?

    Reading into the very small amount of information I have ie one page, I am still not 100% on this. Pins 7 and 8, apply 24vdc and the fan runs. Do I also need to jump 24vdc over to pins 4 and 5? That doesnt add up.

    I understand there will be outputs on pins 1 and 2 to show the condition of their respective sensors. But pin 6, I am unsure what thats about. In the place of the manual tool release when I build an auto system I am not clear. I guess I would just short out the switch huh? Such a nice protected life I have had with good manuals and I get one page with this unit.

    Hey so the spindle arrived yesterday. The VFD is still in AUS on its way to NZ. I attached a pic of the bad boy it fills my Z axis very nicely. Hopefully the remainder of the install is as easy.....

  11. #11
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    Re: Quick audit please of this diagram?

    Quote Originally Posted by boydage View Post
    Is that a fact? Ive never used an ATC Spindle. So, tell me, I press the button, air enters the cylinder, piston overcomes a spring, tool releases? Or is it the other way around? Lose air pressure and my tool goes down, and dances across the table?

    Reading into the very small amount of information I have ie one page, I am still not 100% on this. Pins 7 and 8, apply 24vdc and the fan runs. Do I also need to jump 24vdc over to pins 4 and 5? That doesnt add up.

    I understand there will be outputs on pins 1 and 2 to show the condition of their respective sensors. But pin 6, I am unsure what thats about. In the place of the manual tool release when I build an auto system I am not clear. I guess I would just short out the switch huh? Such a nice protected life I have had with good manuals and I get one page with this unit.

    Hey so the spindle arrived yesterday. The VFD is still in AUS on its way to NZ. I attached a pic of the bad boy it fills my Z axis very nicely. Hopefully the remainder of the install is as easy.....
    Air will be used for ejection so when you press tool release Button, the solenoid will send air to the piston of the cylinder that will push down on the Drawbar and release the Tool

    You may need (2) air solenoids (1) for Tool Release and (1) for the Air blast which is a short Blast of Air to clean the Spindle Taper
    Mactec54

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