[mmeiring]

I want to purchase a Grizzly X3 to do a cnc conversion on. My main question is about the environment that it will be going into. I have only two locations at my home to set up a mill, one being the garage the other being the basement. I live in Ohio and my garage is attached but not heated. The temperature in the winter will get fairly cold. If I install in the basement the temperature will stay constant as it is heated. The downside to the basement location is that it is a room about 10’ x 10’ where the house sump is. I’m suspecting that it will somewhat humid in that room, so I’m concerned about rust.

I’m new to the cnc world so I don’t have much experience with the long term care of this type of machine. I’m still pretty amazed that you can use water (w/additive) for flood cooling and it not cause the mill to rust. I would really like to have a cnc mill for some prototyping. However it may sit unused for a few months at a time.

If there is anyone out there with some experience with this sort of environment please give me some advice.

Here the questions finally.

1. What would be the best location for this install, the garage or basement?

2. Will I need to be concerned about corrosion?

3. Due to the small volume use. Should I just outsource my cnc needs?

I don’t like #3 because I think this cnc stuff is very cool. But I don’t want to spend a bunch of money on a tool the just ends up rusting due to it not being used enough.


Additional info:

I have recently build a cnc router kit from DynaCNC. I’m not that happy with the backlash so if I buy this mill I will be using it to make parts to upgrade my router to ball screws/angular contact bearings. I plan to use a FogBuster for cooling, and maybe set up a flood cooling enclosure.

Thanks for reading.

[KOS]

Well, I live in Texas where the summers are hot and very humid, and my X3 sits in my garage. My garage is attached and I have put in panels into the door to help with insulation, but there isnt much air circulation in there. My tools do get surface rust if I do not keep them oiled. I have not noticed any issues with my laptop or other electronics as of yet however. So the mill will do fine in your basement as long as you keep it oiled. not sure if you can just set up a fan system with exhaust to help the air ciculate and keep the humidity down.

As far as the cold, well I am not sure what effect that will have as I moved to texas after I started to aquire my tools.

The mill is probably going to cost you around $2k to get set up if you use your exisiting parts from your cnc router. If you decide to just use your mill to upgrade your router you will be looking at $3-$4k to get your mill set up for cnc and the apporpriate tooling. I would imagine there are people on this board that would be happy to help you with your projects to get some prototyping done. But not sure if you plan to sell your part after you get it prototyped. For $3k you can probably find someone to make quite a few parts for you in the short term but in the long term the mill should be worth its weight in gold if you continue to use it.
Now that $3-$4k is assuming you do not own anything for a mill, such as vises, clamps, end mills, laptop to run it etc etc. You can probably get buy with less out of your pocket but that is a good ball part figure to be safe.

The other thing is the turn around if you get someone else to do your prototypes for you, they would already be set up to machine where it will take you some time to get the machine converted and then be comfortable to use and get a finished part. I would say you are 50/50 on this one, I would much rather own my own mill and have the freedom to continue to improve my designs over time. But it may be a waste of money to just the mill sit, and possibly cheaper if you are only going to make a hand full of prototypes for your own needs. The other consideration is (which I am not sure of) is if you plan to sell these parts after you get them made. Producing parts in volume is VERY time consuming, so not only do you have to spend time machining but marketing and customer support as well after the fact.

I have sold parts for years now off my machines so this part I know first hand.

I would say you need to write out a project plan and get some quotes to really figure out what your true plans in the future will be. A cost analysis of this may point you in one direction over the other.

Not sure if my ramblings helped at all...
Dan

[ImanCarrot]

I'd go for the garage with an oilburning space heater (like a big hairdryer that runs on oil).

Reason 1: If (when) you take to CNC machining you will be AMAZED at the amount of extra stuff you need- vices aetc have already been mentioned, but think of racking, storage for coolant, wiring, plumbing extraction, PC, fire extinguishers, chairs, tables, TV, beer fridge and various stuff that "Ill just put away here in case it comes in handy one day"... ask any machinist if they ever throw anything out and they will look at you like you're mad!

Reason 2: Expansion- what happens when you decide you want a drill press/ angle grinder/ welding kit/ belt grinder/ vertical saw etc... easier to add to the garage.

Reason 3: Fire risk... burning your garage down might be a setback, but a fire in the basement while you sleep due to an electrical short, well...

Reason 4: Insurance: not sure about this, but I'm pretty sure most insurance companies would look dimly on sticking a lathe in your basement?

Reason 5: When you want a break you can open the garage doors, have a beer and look at the scenery (also your neighbours will want to see what you're doing so you can show off your latest creation).

Reason 6: If you want to sell your house most blokes would love a shop garage, but most women would hate all that stuff in the house.

Reason 7: You will get no peace in the house if your hammering and cutting away when you missus wants to watch telly.

Just my tuppence worth

[mmeiring]

Thanks for the responses. I think I'm leaning toward the garage for the location. My cnc router's home is there already along with other wood working tools.

I'm interested in using it for prototypes. If something turns out to be something that would sell then I'll probably have it mass produced at a real shop. I have a list of parts that I will need to convert the mill and the costs associated to them. I'm looking at this more like a hobby than from a business perspective. I just would like the mill to stay in good condition even though I may not use it for long periods of time. It seems that I have way too many hobbies for the free time that I end up with. But I really enjoy making things.

What should I be using to keep the mill oiled. After use I'm thinking that I will spray it of with compressed air. Then what? Would something like WD40 work or is there something that is more suited for preventing rust?


Here's a specific question.

Let's say you just finished a job. Chips and coolant are all over.

1. What process for cleanup and prepping the mill for storage if you didn't intend to use the mill for a couple of months?

2. If the mill is sitting for a couple of months do I need to get it moving and then re-oil it? Or will it be able to sit for some time with no intervention required?

Thanks again for everyones help.

[project5k]

well, i'm definately no expert, but i have seen KOS's shop, and its really nice. he just needs to add an airconditioner out there, i mean this is texas after all....

I'm just getting mine up and running and i can tell you that spraying a machine down with wd40 is an option, but not one that i recomend. the problem with WD is that it goes on as a thin liquid, but if you let it set for a couple weeks, it turns into this thick goopy brown stuff... I would seriously look for something better...

as for cleanup, i dont see a problem with blowing it off with compressed air, i do this, just be careful of a couple things, first the chips will be flying around and will get into everything.. including your eyes and hair and stuff.. plus, there is the possibility that you might blow metal bits into the back of the mill and onto the circuit board and that could be a problem...

if your gonna run a recirculating coolant system, you need to consider using a storage oil that is compatable with your coolant, thing is that when you go back and fire the mill up after you coated it with the storage oil, it will get mixed in with the coolant, and this can in some cases from what i'm told, mess up the coolant. you might consider contacting some coolant manuf's or distributers, and see what they reccomend.. they might make suggestions as to what you can use for way oil as well... if you can figure out and get stuff thats all compatible then you wont have to worrie about it.. i know that on some bigger machines that i have seen, they have an oil sepperator in the coolant system, the coolant is a simi-synthetic, and then they use mineral based oils for the ways and storage coatings, and in thier coolant tank they have an oil skimmer, similar to a protine skimmer in a fish tank.

just some thoughts...

oh, and i vote for the garage, i dont like the idea of the wood dust getting mixed in with the mill stuff, but think about this, if your cutting metal in your basement and your walking around, then some of that will stick to your shoes, and you'll track it into the house, this is far less likely in the garage due to the sepperation...

[dang]

I think the garage is the better spot for the mill. I live in Florida, so I know a bit about humidity. My solution is to keep the mill clean and well oiled to avoid rust. This solution is also extended to all of my other steel accessories such as end mill holders. Keeping the mill in the garage will also keep installation and movement accidents to a minimum. Gravity is your enemy, at least when the mill is en route to it's installation.

Now, regarding the X3 choice; before purchasing any mill, you should look into what upgrades and vendors are available for that particular machine. Personally, I like the X2 mill. If you upgrade it with the Poly/Granite Base it'll have more table movement than the X3 does. Read up on this 1st of course, there could be manufacturer problems/delays related to that particular upgrade.
As far as the rest go, LMS has got a huge array of upgrades for the X2, and almost none for the X3.
Just my two cents.

[M100]

As far as the rest go, LMS has got a huge array of upgrades for the X2, and almost none for the X3.

....because the X3 doesn't need any upgrades