[toolman1]

I cant send files to fadal I am using 9 pin to 25 wired (2 to 2) (3 to 3) (5 to 7) I do cold start CD,5 enter TA,1 enter and still will not send text file, we done a test plug on 1030 board and it comes back good we are lost would appreciate some help.

[DareBee]

I have never been able to get my machine to COM when setting baud rate on the command line (CD5).
Go into parameters (SETP).
Set and save your desired baud rate.
Turn the main power off to the machine.
Wait 10 seconds
Turn on again
Do CS
Send text file using TA,1,1 or spacebar - 8 - 1

HTH

[carbidecraters]

We had jumper issues on the cable itself...call Fadal tech and they will guide you through it.

[toolman1]

Thanks DareBee I tried it without cd,5 and made sure it was set as default, but when I type TA,1,1 and enter it still will not transfer files. I Thank you all for trying to help me but i think I may have a problem with 1030 board even though the test shows to be good someone from fadal said that test isnt always truthful.

[DareBee]

You still need to go into the SetP and set the machine to the correct baud rate EXACTLY as I described above.
Your send software also has to match and send protocol settings must be correct.

[toolman1]

Darebee,
My settings on my computer are same as fadal buad rate,data bits 7,parity even,stop bits 1,xonxoff, when I do cold start and then TA,1,1 and enter it still will not transfer, it dont even show that its communicating in my software on PC I have the same setup with my Haas vf3 and when I prepare the cnc to recieve then on my pc software I get % signs rolling on screen which tells me they are communicating I dont get nothing with Fadal.

[AndyB]

Have you checked the voltage from the PC.

Between pins 3 and 7 you should have 8-10 volts DC when trying to send a program.

Unplug your cable from the back of your Fadal and check this voltage.

If it is low then check it at the back of PC.

If it is low and then serial card in the PC is bad. Try another PC to verfiy.

[Shizzlemah]

My SETP is set for 9600, but the darned thing will *NOT* communicate unless I do a CD,8 from the control.

With the CD,8 it is fine, but for the life of me I can't get it to work by itself on power up. It's only a minor inconvenience to keep having to CD,8 before a PU, TA, or DNC.... But if there is something I am missing, I'm all ears!

Tips fellas ?

[DareBee]

Tips - sure.
I have no trouble running 31,400 (is that the right number?) baud on my '94 machine.
Crank up the speeed.

[Shizzlemah]

Thanks DareBee, I was more wondering about tips on how to not have to always specify CD,8 before a TA,PU, or DNC command :-)

The cable here is like 9 miles long, and 9600 is adequate for DNC.

Interestingly enough, when a program has a "SPRINT" command, it send to the PC without trouble - even without a CD,8 to get started. Hmn...



Edit to add :
Got it!
And it had NOTHING to do with operator error. NOTHING !!!! *lol* :rainfro:

[gar]

071005-1634 EST USA

AndyB:

With relatively standard text being sent and while it is being sent you should see a fluctuating DC voltage in the range of +/-1 V from TxD (the RS-232 transmit line) relative to common. In AC position on the voltmeter the voltage reading will be maybe 5 to 12 V while transmitting and 0 at rest.

When at rest, no data being transmitted, the TxD line should be about -5 to -12 V DC depending upon the driver and load.

At the PC 9 pin connector pin 3 is TxD and this goes to RxD at the CNC which is pin 3 on the 25 pin connector. Pin 5 at the PC, and pin 7 at the CNC are the commons. Pin 1 at the CNC is cable shield.


Shizzlemah:

With our I232 Isolator System you can run at anything up to 115.2 kbaud with any reasonable length. Generally to 4000 ft.

See our web site at
www.bet-a2.com

I can not help on the Fadal procedures for communication. However, Edster may be able to help.

.

[toolman1]

AndyB,

I checked the voltage on pin 3 and 7 after I type the command TA,1,1 and I just have around 5 volts dc.




Thanks,Toolman1

[gar]

071007-1849 EST USA

toolman1:

Your response to AndyB is probably not very useful.

What brand of computer and how new? Recent Dell's have apparently gone from using a source of about +/-12 V to +/- 5 V for the RS232 drivers.

You need to be more precise in defining the set up and how you made the measurements. Do have any detailed knowledge on how RS232 and asynchronous communication work?

Your statement of 5 V DC on pin 3 and 7 is somewhat meaningless. Does this mean both pins 3 and 7 were at 5 V relative to an undefined point, or did you mean to say that pin 3 was +5 V DC relative to pin 7? This is a quite unexpected voltage, being at +5, whether data is being sent or at rest. Was this measurement at the CNC connector end of the cable with it unconnected from the CNC and only the voltmeter as a load? Or while connected to the CNC?

You need to know that at the Fadal CNC pin 7 is common, probably connected directly to machine chassis. On HAAS pin 7 to chassis is thru a 100 ohm resistor. With nothing plugged into the Fadal 25 pin connector and no data being output you should expect the voltage from pin 3, RxD, relative to pin 7 to be close to zero volts. I just checked a computer and read +0.09 V. Pin 2, TxD, relative to pin 7 should read in the range of -5 to -12 V. The value will be near whatever is internally used for the source voltage for the RS232 driver. Note you can probably use the threaded post of the 25 pin connector on the CNC for your common reference. Not so the screw on the cable connector in most cases. On the machine if pin 7 is connected to chassis you should read 0 volts between the post and pin 7.

To do the next test may require 4 and 5 jumpered, and separately 6, 8, and 20. And it may depend upon Fadal allowing you to send data without some sort of software handshake. Measure the voltage on pin 2 relative to pin 7. Before sending data this should be the aforesaid -5 to -12 V. When sending data out this should jump around within about +/- 1 V.

If this test works, then you are outputting some sort of data.

Next you connect the cable between the computer and the CNC, run Microsoft Hyper Terminal and send data to the PC and see if there is any readable data or even garbage. The result here determines what you do next.

In other words there is a logical procedure that you can use to troubleshoot your system. This is in contrast to taking a big black box and trying many many combinations to try to determine the problem. You need to know that some of the hardware and some of the software at the two ends can communicate before you start looking for other hardware or software problems.

.

[toolman1]

Gar,

If i did have detailed knowledge of your question I would not be on here asking for help now would you THINK.




Do have any detailed knowledge on how RS232 and asynchronous communication work?

[Shizzlemah]

I do cold start CD,5 enter TA,1 enter and still will not send text file,

Um, TA,1 is to RECEIVE a text file. PU,2 will SEND the current program from the fadal.

[gar]

071009-0725 EST USA

toolman1:

There are a number of components to the communication between the computer and your CNC.

One is the physical RS232 components and the interconnecting cable. This has nothing to do with the data content or how it is transferred.

RS232 is a group of standards that have changed with time that relate to signal levels and impedances. RS232 as distinguished from RS422 or 485 is an unbalanced system where there is one common wire that is usually called ground, and a second wire that has a voltage relative to the common that transmits the signal. In RS232 there are 3 states but only two are used. These are a negative voltage less than -3 V, an indeterminate intermeadiate range from -3 to +3 V, and a positive voltage above +3 V.

The reason for this design is to minimize the effects of noise in a simple system.

For your RS232 system to work you must provide signals from the transmitter that are solidly outside the +/- 3 V range.

In the past most systems used +/-12 V supplies for power to the RS232 interface chips. This meant that the actual output with no load was somewhat inside this supply voltage range.

Normal RS232 signal level convention is that a logic 0 is represented by a + voltage greater than +3 V, and that a logic 1 is below -3 V, meaning more negative than -3.

In asynchronous communication as associated with RS232 the normal convention is that the rest condition, no data being sent, is a logic 1 and therefore the RS232 output is negative relative to the common (ground) wire. The rest condition, no data being sent, is also the same state as a stop bit which is logic 1, and therefore a negative voltage at the RS232 output. The start bit in asynchronous communication is a logic 0.

With this information you can usually check whether an RS232 transmitter is working with the voltage measurements I provided in previous posts. At rest, no data being sent, the output voltage from TxD relative to common should be a substantial negative voltage. When data is being sent the average number of 0s and 1s being sent are approximately equal. Thus, the output is +V half of the time and -V the other half, and the average of this is 0. The actual probability distribution of 0s and 1s determines the actual average voltage. From experience this generally falls in the range of +/-1 V.

RS232 driver circuits are supposed to be current limited, and also have an output series resistance.

Following are some measurements from a Toshiba T2135CS Laptop.
The measurements were made with a Simpson 270 and a Fluke 27. The Simpson does not measure AC current, and it measures AC voltage two different ways. The Simpson in AC position simply has a bridge rectifier and therefore produces a reading from a DC voltage. To strip the DC component you have use the output position which inserts a capacitor in series with the rectifier. The Fluke in the AC position always includes the capacitor.

Mode        Simpson 270           Fluke 27

Rest state no data being sent
DC V             -8.9              -9.25
AC V             10.2                .036
Output             .0
Short cxt MA    -19.              -19.6

Transmitting data at 9600 baud
DC V              +.25              +.8 to + 1.1
AC V              9.8              10.7
Output            9.6
Short cxt MA DC  +4.               +4.3
Short cxt MA AC                    24.6

Note: nothing here has much to do with baud rate or message content. Only if baud rate was low would there any problems making the measurements when data was transmitted.

The RS232 circuitry is located in integrated circuits. These have limits to the abnormal voltages and currents that can be applied to them. Usually these components fail from external voltages from in plant electrical short circuits, bad grounds, and lightning. When these fail deviations from the above typical data may tell you where the problem is.

Suppose the RS232 transmitter failed such that the plus supply voltage to the integrated circuit was not connected to the TxD output terminal when a logic 0 state occurred and the TxD output swing was from -10 to 0 instead of -10 to +10, then the average output voltage when data was being sent would be about -5 V.

Does this show you why polarity and reference point are important bits of information.

Also note when you connect a load, such as the RxD line, then the voltages are different because of the loading and source impedances.

Knowing that an RS232 receiver is working requires different techniques.

Whether your problem is at a hardware level, software, or your understanding of a procedure you need to start at a point in the system where you can make tests that identify whether certain areas are working. You can not get anywhere if the hardware is not funtioning.

.

[gar]

071009-1215 EST USA


Go to this thread and read edster's comments. If you use a very short cable, maybe 6 ft, to perform the test with 3 wires and the jumpers at the Fadal connector for 4 to 5, and separately 6, 8, and 20, and a real rock solid ground wire, #12, from the computer chassis to the Fadal chassis, then without our I232 you should get successful communication per Edster's comments if your only problem is understanding the procedure to communicate with Fadal.

http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showth...t=41741&page=3

Are you using the same computer and serial port on the computer for the Fadal that you use for any other communication?

.

[toolman1]

Gar,

i bought software,switchbox, and all the cables from fadal it came in today and I hooked it all up and the Fadal still want send or recieve.Not sure what to do.

[carbidecraters]

Call a tech in!

This site seems to have poor answers sometimes.

[gar]

071010-1615 EST USA

toolman1:

You need to make some of the measurements I have described.

Basically you need to know:

Can your PC RS232 send any data out thru the RS232 port? In the static rest state, no data being sent, do you get voltages such as I have described?

Then the same question at the Fadal. If we can send data it does not mean we can receive data. In a sense the receive direction is harder to troubleshoot.

At the PC transmit is between pin 3 and 5. At Fadal it is between 2 and 7.

There are more options and it is easier to verify correct RS232 communication at the PC end.

Try to make some of the measurements I have described. Be specific on exactly what you do. And what the results are.

On a Fluke meter, 87II, the voltage terminals are labeled COM, put the black lead here, and V, omega, diode for the other terminal for voltage, resistance, and diode measurments. Put the red lead here. On my Simpson 270 the corresponding terminals are labeled COMMON -, and +.

Put the black lead to your pin 5 or 7 or machine chassis. Use the red lead to make the pin 2 or 3 measurement. On some meters you may need to reverse the leads to make a negative voltage measurement. The Fluke is digital and displays + or -. The Simpson has a +/- selector switch, or you can switch the leads. Knowing the polarity of the voltage is very important.

Just make a couple simple measurements and report back.

.