[paulried]

Does it work if you create a DOS partion on an XP machine so that I can reboot my XP machine into a DOS environment, run MAXNC to control the machine and then return back to XP for CAD etc in the workshop?

[cncadmin]

NO, you must re-install from win 98 or 2000 and use the option for a dual boot, than load winxp. I have only don't it on win 2000, but I assume winxp would be the same way.

[paulried]

Really? That is the opposite of what I thought. I was reading the Partition Magic manual and it says it is easy to do and in essence creates a dual boot system

I just finished building the PC for the router.... not nearly as bad as I thought it would be. Manual for building it was actually very complete and it is in a nice mini-case (Shuttle-PC)

[cncadmin]

I missed the partition magic part, I don't now, I never use that peogram before sorry.

[wms]

Paul,
No problem. I have one machine with Win98se, XP, and Dos on it.
The Dos partition must go one the first disk(if you have more than one) and below 1024 cylinders as the book states then Win95/98, then XP.
It is also handy to create a "swap partition" and format it Fat 16.
That way you can use it for both Dos and XP. Say to transfer program files from XP (cad/cam) to Dos for the control.
If you do create a swap partition it would need to be right after Dos on the first part of the drive.
I use Partition magic ver 7.
Only draw back is you can't run a Raid 0 setup.(mirror) with partition magic ver 7. If that matters. Maybe in ver 8 you can I don't know.
Good luck, It's pretty easy to use.

[chuckknigh]

It's been a while, but doesn't 98SE give you the option of creating a DOS bootable disk, or of exiting to DOS in the shutdown menu?

I think I remember those options.

Why not just use that, and keep it all on a single partition? If you're rebooting anyway...

-- Chuck Knight

[chuckknigh]

I just reread the original question. XP is based on the same kernel as 2000, which is based on NT. Unlike Win95/98/98SE/ME, it is not a GUI running on top of a DOS system. That doesn't mean that you can't run DOS programs, though.

There used to be a DOS replacement environment for NT environments called 4NT. It was made by the same people as 4DOS. Let me see if I can find a link.

I don't know if the software will run under it, but this provides a DOS environment running in a window under an NT based system. The manufacturer's web site is:
http://www.jpsoft.com/

They have a 21 day evaluation period on the latest version...it's shareware.

I've used their programs for years, on all kinds of machines, and have never had any trouble with them. I even chose 4DOS as a command interpreter, back when command.com was the only game in town!

-- Chuck Knight

[ger21]

If you go to bootdisk.com, at the top of the page, are DOS bootdisk files. Download the version you want, pop in a floppy and it sets it up on the floppy for you. Only takes a few minutes.

Gerry

[kong]

I'm gonna restart my pc to test it, but if you tap F8 during boot, to bring up the boot menu, it should have an option to start at command prompt. Is this not DOS? Like i said, I don't wanna restart, so maybe that option is not there for Windows XP anyway?!

[chuckknigh]

I run 2000 and ME in a dual boot system. My 2000 allows me to boot to a command prompt, but while it resembles DOS it is not DOS. And, it's extremely limited...only a few real commands which might let me reconstruct a file directory or some such thing.

I assume XP's system, sharing a common heritage with 2000, would be similar.

There is a "command.com" interpreter in XP, though. Just tap <start-run-command.com> and it'll bring up a prompt. Most DOS programs run under this window, on my 2000 machine...should be very similar on XP. And, thanks to it running in a virtual machine, if it crashes it doesn't bring down the whole system!

Cant hurt to try!

-- Chuck Knight

[paulried]

Kong: I don't think it is DOS, just a command line for the kernel. Tonight I am going to mess around with Partition Magic on the machine and see what I can do. The machine was blank when I started so it is not a big deal if I end up having to format the drive later.

I built the the machine specifically for running the router. The only reason I wanted XP on it was it made it simlar to the other machines in the house. Last time I built a computer it was a Z-80 machine that I soldered together on a circuit board! If I remember correctly it had am 8K memory chip on it which cost me a small fortune at the time.

I'll let you guys know how it turns out.

[cadcam]

Just so you know as for XP this now not built on the DOS kernal as the earler vesions of windows.
The Dos Propmt is now emulated.

I use Pration Magic when doing either new computers or doing a daul boot sector.
You should berable to do as you want by partioning the hard drive.

[paulried]

Time for an update..


Boy what an adventure this has been! After many trials and tribulations, I have successfully gotten a dual boot XP/DOS machine. Here is the timeline

1) Started with an XP home machine.
2) Installed Partition Magic 7.0 (PM) but during the installation, my neighbour stuck his nose the garage to see what I was doing. I missed the all important step in the installation of creating a set of bootable recovery disks. This will come back to haunt me later
3) Installed Dos 6.22 as per PM instructions and then got to the last line.......Insert the Boot Disk you made during PM installation to get back to XP.....YIKES!!!! Since I am a cheap wad, I would not pay the per call phone support so I relied on email support from PowerQuest. It didn't take too long to find out I was screwed. Only solution, was to wipe the hard disk clean and reinstalled XP from scratch and start all over again!
4) Four hours of reinstalling XP, upgrading, installing network drivers, printers, firewall, virus protection, it was back to installing PM again. This time I remembered to make the boot disks! DOS install went fine again and with the boot disks, I was able to get back to XP. YEAH, time to crack a beer open....but.....
5) Went to install BootMagic, which comes with PM, so that I could choose at bootup which operating system I want to be in rather than doing it from floppy disk. BootMagic would not install. It kept giving me an error that it could not find a visible FAT16 or FAT32 primary partition. Scoured the manual and found nothing, but did determine that the manual stinks. Time to email PowerQuest again.
6) Two days later I get an email from tech support telling me that all I need to do is go into PM, click the advanced tag and unhide the DOS partion. Gee, why didn't I think of that......kind of an important step that should have been covered in the manual if you ask me.

So, after 7 days, I am back up and running with a dual boot machine just like I wanted. I guess the wait was worth it, but I sure wish it was easier.

Two quick hints:

1) As per WMS's message above, I installed a FAT16 partition soley as a swap area that is visible to XP when it is running and also to DOS. This lets me use Windows software to create the machine files and save them to that partition so I can load the files from DOS without having to put them on a floppy.

2) WMS also indicated that PM7.0 will not do RAID 0, which is correct, but according to the web site, PM Pro7.0 and 8.0 both do, so if this is important to you, check it out at http://www.powerquest.com

Bottom line, it was well worth it. Just be careful and be sure to follow the instructions. I found the Knowledge base on the web site had better installation instructions for PM and BM then the manual.

Cheers!

[ger21]

If you have to start from scratch, just install DOS first and XP or WIN200 will handle the dual boot automatically.,

Gerry

[wms]

Gerry,
That's true. But with just XP or 2000 can you boot to more that 2 op's? And can you have a swap file? I don't know.
With PQ magic it is real easy to resize your partitions and create a new one after everything is installed.

[paulried]

Well, what fun would that be? I learned at least two new ways to pound my head against the wall!

Seriously, I did it because the guy from PowerQuest assured me it would work and I didn't want to do a third install. I am able to try Linux as well with this setup.

Most importantly I learned something new.

[WOODKNACK]

Hey guys,
MAybe I am missing something here. seems like you guys are working very hard to get into dos from XP? What do you need to get into dos for? To run a dos program maybe?
I am running XP proffessional on my pc. I have a old disk I made awhile ago. I put it in my computer and start is up. It brings me to an A:// promt with cdrom support! I then put in what ever disk I want to use , like say Turbocnc and start that program.
IS this what you guys are striving to get at!? I will put the file up in the file section for the disk if that is what you guys want? Maybe I am missing some here. I so please fill me in...

[paulried]

I am not a wild about booting off of a floppy all of the time to get to dos. However, for me, the big issue is networking. I have my machine in the workshop in a wireless network with the rest of the machines in the house. That way we share printers, scanners, cable modem, etc. It also allows me to have a shared directory for files that I can work on wherever (sometimes the hamock in the back yard has been a very productive place).

For me, the bottom line in convenience. Want to change operating systems, just do it. Need to get at a file that you created in XP from DOS, no problem and visa versa without rebooting.

[chuckknigh]

Windows XP supports, among other formats, an NTFS file system...not just the DOS compatible ones.

Simply booting from a DOS floppy is not always a viable option -- doing that on my Win2K machine (same NTFS file system) results in an inability to recognize my hard drive as containing valid data. It's literally an incompatible file format.

The more Micro$oft moves away from its DOS roots, the harder it will be to boot into DOS. Since Windows, in any form, is not a real-time operating system, any version of Windows will remain an iffy platform from which to run a CNC system.

Thankfully DOS was real time, as is LINUX, and so are several other options. DOS is just the most obvious RT OS to run if your files are on a Windows partition.

-- Chuck Knight

[paulried]

One other thing you run into is the ability to access large hard disks. If memeory serves me correctly you can access a max of 2 gig from DOS without a partion. If you boot to DOS via a floppy and have one of the commonly available "large" hard disks you will not be able to read data regardless if it recognizes it.