[Radius]

Hi everyone.

A little background:

I bought my VM16 as a non-working machine. All 4 of the Servo Dynamics servo boards were damaged and/or blown up. So I sent them off the Servo Dynamics for repair. Of course they can't find them but that's a another story. Heck, I don't even know if they are repairable.

Anyways, since I'm waiting for them I figured I'd try to check out other aspects of the machine. See my other post regarding getting the tool carousel to work.

Next question: I'd like to see if the spindle works ok. Of course the machine won't allow any MDI or hardware functions until it's homed and you can't home it without servo drives. Is there a way to bypass the servo E-stop warning so I can power up the spindle and see if it even works?

Thanks,
Michael

[Mortek]

If memory serves, you hit the home (F1) key then there should be a key on the menu to Home here. It will set the current position as home and allow you to run the spindle.

Ken

[Radius]

If memory serves, you hit the home (F1) key then there should be a key on the menu to Home here. It will set the current position as home and allow you to run the spindle.

Ken

Hi Ken..

I should have mentioned that this machine has a Centurion 5 control.

There is a F1 home key. I've tried it and I get the E-stop servo error alarm. I think all that does is actually tell the control to send the machine home. Of course it can't because there are no servo drives.

Thanks,
Michael

[One of Many]

I fear the control has too many checks to the outside world to trick it into thinking everything is functional to run the spindle from a near dead closed loop control. You might get all the E-stop contacts jumpered and find some other input in conflict, since the control cannot track or null out the servos, tach and encoders.

If the machine has a Yaskawa spindle drive, you may be able to jumper out the E-stop there and then use its display to run the spindle motor. You will need a manual for the spindle drive and you MUST be very careful NOT to change any of the settings in the drive parameters. It would be wise to learn how the drive works anyways and record all of the settings for your records. Yaskawa should have the manual on line or you could make an email request in PDF format. These are very complex manuals to which only about 30% may apply to your particular application.

This is not for the weekend warrior, so read and comprehend as much as you can, to feel confident before you start and make notes of any changes in wiring etc.

Make sure all the other wires you have disconnected are isolated and secure before powering up.

DC

[Radius]

I fear the control has too many checks to the outside world to trick it into thinking everything is functional to run the spindle from a near dead closed loop control. You might get all the E-stop contacts jumpered and find some other input in conflict, since the control cannot track or null out the servos, tach and encoders.

If the machine has a Yaskawa spindle drive, you may be able to jumper out the E-stop there and then use its display to run the spindle motor. You will need a manual for the spindle drive and you MUST be very careful NOT to change any of the settings in the drive parameters. It would be wise to learn how the drive works anyways and record all of the settings for your records. Yaskawa should have the manual on line or you could make an email request in PDF format. These are very complex manuals to which only about 30% may apply to your particular application.

This is not for the weekend warrior, so read and comprehend as much as you can, to feel confident before you start and make notes of any changes in wiring etc.

Make sure all the other wires you have disconnected are isolated and secure before powering up.

DC

Hi DC..

Thanks for the info. I fear that you are correct as far as tricking the control. But I wasn't sure so I figured I'd ask.

IIRC, my machine has a Custom Servos 15hp 10,000 rpm spindle motor. There is a big black box in the back of the machine that controls the spindle motor. Is has a serial connection to the control PC.

I may be a little fuzzy on the spindle motor manufacturer, I'll double check when I get home.

Thanks,
Michael

[One of Many]

If this is a Centurion 5(VI) then the black box is the PC motherboard and card cage. The spindle drive would not be in there. It should be a large plastic case with a small LCD display/keyboard on it. It is not normally serial, but connected via the CPC(circular plasctic connector) cannon plugs on the side of the black box. Typically an enable line, an analog output to control spindle drive and a few relay dry contacts. If yours is different, I can't be of much help there.

Centurion 4's(IV), I know little to nothing about. Other than they are odd ball old school stuff prior to the PC based acro loop control.

DC

[Radius]

If this is a Centurion 5(VI) then the black box is the PC motherboard and card cage. The spindle drive would not be in there. It should be a large plastic case with a small LCD display/keyboard on it. It is not normally serial, but connected via the CPC(circular plasctic connector) cannon plugs on the side of the black box. Typically an enable line, an analog output to control spindle drive and a few relay dry contacts. If yours is different, I can't be of much help there.

Centurion 4's(IV), I know little to nothing about. Other than they are odd ball old school stuff prior to the PC based acro loop control.

DC

Hi DC..

There is actually *2* "black boxes" in the back of the machine. One is the PC and card cage, the other is the spindle controller. There is definitely a serial cable between the spindle controller and the PC.

I will take a picture tonight when I get home if I get a chance.

Michael

[Radius]

As promised, here are pics of the spindle controller. You can see the serial connector in between the 2 front wiring terminal blocks. It is labelled "Encoder" on the spindle controller and the cable leads directly to COM1 on the control PC.

I also took a pic of the spindle motor nameplate.

Michael

[Radius]

Uh oh!

I think I really screwed up.

Being the smart-ass I am, I went into the parameters and set the number of axis on the machine to zero. After all, if there are no axis then the machine shouldn't be trying to communicate with the servo drives, right?

Big mistake. Now on boot up the control hangs at "Initializing Front Panel"

After a couple of seconds or so a number pops up: "117"

I'm assuming this is some type of error message or number.

How do I fix this?

Thanks,
Michael

[One of Many]

That sure is a strange one.

I would think you could find out what the serial data that is being sent and possible control the spindle through a terminal program. Depends on what feedback the other connectors are expecting to satisfy itself, yet isolated from the control. Look around the web for manuals on the drive, then go from there. You may be surprised that a simple text statement tells is what speed to go and the rest is handled internally. Possibly a jumper here and there.

You could just call Milltronics and see if any of the current batch of tech's might have some insight on this drive. Any information could lead you to a source of installation and user service manuals.

Sorry I can't be more help.

DC

[One of Many]

Do you have a disk and know DOS commands for copying from the floppy to the simdrive?

This is going to get wierd if it does have a simdrive. The floppy could be the C:\, the A or B drives are partitioned in a simdrive, where one is eeprom of the base operating system and the other is volatile ram stored with a lithium battery. At least that is what I would expect with an early Cent5 control. The 2 we have do not have a hard drive, but this may have been an option upgrade as more reliable. Dunno.....but even these have limitations.

There may be a program on the floppy disk called "restore". If this is a boot disk, you might just try that. You may need to go into the CMOS settings to get the boot order to start with the A:\ drive to boot off a floppy. Somewhere in the boot process the control may change the drive letters for some dumb reason.

Seeing 117 is a normal part of the boot process. It usually flashes on the screen quickly, which you may not notice. Since it is hanging, the parameter files need to be replaced to restore them. If you cannot get to the main GUI, then all you can do is restore/reload it.

DC

[Radius]

Do you have a disk and know DOS commands for copying from the floppy to the simdrive?

This is going to get wierd if it does have a simdrive. The floppy could be the C:, the A or B drives are partitioned in a simdrive, where one is eeprom of the base operating system and the other is volatile ram stored with a lithium battery. At least that is what I would expect with an early Cent5 control. The 2 we have do not have a hard drive, but this may have been an option upgrade as more reliable. Dunno.....but even these have limitations.

There may be a program on the floppy disk called "restore". If this is a boot disk, you might just try that. You may need to go into the CMOS settings to get the boot order to start with the A: drive to boot off a floppy. Somewhere in the boot process the control may change the drive letters for some dumb reason.

Seeing 117 is a normal part of the boot process. It usually flashes on the screen quickly, which you may not notice. Since it is hanging, the parameter files need to be replaced to restore them. If you cannot get to the main GUI, then all you can do is restore/reload it.

DC

My control has a hard drive and a floppy drive. They appear to be conventionally named. IE: C:\ and A:\ I am very familiar with DOS commands, so that's not a problem.

My plan at this point is to connect a conventional keyboard to the machine and boot to a DOS boot disk and poke around.

I was hoping to find some type of text configuration file the control program reads in order to configure the environment. Like the old WIN.INI file.

Any idea what directory this "restore" program would be located in? Or, if that's not the case, where the control program stores it's operating parameters?

I'll definitely be posting the fix to this problem to help anyone else who might need to figure out how to fix a non-booting control.

Feeling like a dumbass,
Michael

[One of Many]

The parameter files are spread out in many areas and encoded, so no way are you going to change a text file to fix it. I think Pfile.dat may be the only file you really need to replace. This is in the CNC/RAM directory.

You should have backup disks? There are batch files on those disks to restore your particular machine. I had originally had better luck using copy form the floppy to the control, but since have made disks that do this much simpler. The simdisk puts you through some hoops to get things in the right location.

Be glad you have a hard drive.

[Radius]

The parameter files are spread out in many areas and encoded, so no way are you going to change a text file to fix it. I think Pfile.dat may be the only file you really need to replace. This is in the CNC/RAM directory.

You should have backup disks? There are batch files on those disks to restore your particular machine. I had originally had better luck using copy form the floppy to the control, but since have made disks that do this much simpler. The simdisk puts you through some hoops to get things in the right location.

Be glad you have a hard drive.

I am.. After I finally get this machine running I plan to remove it and make a mirror copy of it for backup purposes.

I don't have any backup or rescue diskettes. The machine didn't come with any.

I suppose I will have to call Milltronics tomorrow and see what can be done. I will probably have to buy restore disks or something.

Thanks,
Michael

[Radius]

I got it fixed. I called Milltronics and got very lucky. They had the entire contents of the c:\cnc\ram directory for my machine archived. Apparently everything is archived by serial number if they have it.

So I just copied all the files over and voila! Maching now booting again.

I won't be making *that* mistake again.

Now if I could figure out a way to get the spindle to run without any servo drives in the machine.

Thanks,
Michael

[Dave1]

Take the belts off the motors, start the machine and manually trip the home switches??? Might work but be careful.
Just a thought,
Dave

[Radius]

Take the belts off the motors, start the machine and manually trip the home switches??? Might work but be careful.
Just a thought,
Dave

Hi Dave..

I can try it, but I don't think that will work. The control won't see any change of position from the encoders and will probably error out.

However, that doesn't mean it can't be tried.


Thanks,
Michael