[oppositeset]

hi
i have mechanical engineering background, finished 1 year and was pretty good in it but i left it since i wanted to do something more practical. i'm still thinking of a field to start my career and interested in cnc machinist. i needed your help in knowing whats the best way to go in this regard. which schools in toronto are good for this field. how's the job market etc. any help would be appreciated. i'm 23 and working in electronics industry right now so i don't even have too much experience in cnc field.

thx

[fukeneh]

The best thing to do is find a job as an operator at first. Then after a year you will know how the machine runs and some other basic things. Then you can start learning setups and programming. The trick is to find a job that will let you learn. Some just want people to push buttons. I went to school for three years but learned more in the first year of working than all of the time I spent at school.

[laszlozoltan]

hi
i have mechanical engineering background, finished 1 year and was pretty good in it but i left it since i wanted to do something more practical. i'm still thinking of a field to start my career and interested in cnc machinist. i needed your help in knowing whats the best way to go in this regard. which schools in toronto are good for this field. how's the job market etc. any help would be appreciated. i'm 23 and working in electronics industry right now so i don't even have too much experience in cnc field.

thx

I got into CNC throgh the institute of technical trades, a 9 mo course that taught cadcam and basic lathe and mill programing with the help of a student loan; almost no practical stuff. once I graduated the certificate helped open doors, but I had to go through a number of those doors; each new job you learn a bit more and earn a bit more; you have to work hard and be perserverant- and if you sit in one place too long you will forget a lot you may need in another, so don't let yourself get too comfortable or you will be sorry later on.

[dertsap]

and if you sit in one place too long you will forget a lot you may need in another, so don't let yourself get too comfortable or you will be sorry later on.

if you sit in the wrong place for too long

there are a number of good shops out there that will keep your head spinning for many years .
when you no longer feel the fright , then its time to move on

[cam1]

Consider completing your education at College (Mechanical Engineering Technology)
It's a combination of theory with lot's of practical. This will give you all of the course credits that you would require for your General Machinist C of Q.You would get 1 year of credit for the University courses. I chose the following route:
I got my diploma and started working in R&D. I always loved machining, so I started to work in the shop machining some parts. 15 years later I'm running the design department,and the Machine Shop and I got eneogh hours on the shop floor to be able to just write the Machinist exam. Going this route allowed me to have an input on how the parts that we design are machined, and it makes me more marketable, as I can work both sides. Try to look ahead 10 years, and picture where and what you would like to be doing.Always keep learning.

regards and good luck

[oppositeset]

hey guys

thanks for ur replies, these r really helpful
i'm gonna start college in september this year so i'm looking into all the options
cam1 thanks for ur input, im also looking into mechanical engineering tech. program tht u mentioned since i think i would love to study more and go to college.
Do you think its better to get into a program which has Co-Op since you get practical knowledge. There is a good manufacturing technology program at georgian college which has a co-op program. is this somewhat connected to machining too ? which college did u go to ? and which college would u suggest ?


laszlozoltan ... did the program at the institute of trades helped u in ur career or it was just the experience u gained elsewhere !! and if u dont mind telling how much r the fees at this place ?

Everyone i talk to warns me that Cnc mahinist is an average kindof field where u would be just making enough money to survive and be prepared to work at a low position for number of years without learning anything since, all the places basically want people to just operate machines and by working over there u won't be able to go ahead and become a programmer, i mean making money is not a priority but i was wondering what's the average per hour u make when u start and whats the maximum !!

[cam1]

Aim as high as you can, you are young. Few things are as ****ty as not being able to advance as a result of not having a piece of paper. If you are into the "practical" side of engineering, then go the college route. If they offer Co-Op try it (try before you buy).
The College Engineering Diploma will put you between the theorist and the machinist, which is a nice area, you get exposed to the manufacturing, and the design side. You can then pick and choose later in your career. Keep in mind that with a strong dollar, that manufaturing will eventually tank (for those that don't automate). We are becoming a knowledge based society. The machinist trade is an excellent trade, but I can tell you from first hand experience, that your earning potential is not a s strong as that of a Technologist. If I could not find work as a Technologist, it's really handy to have my red seal as a Gen'l machinist.Most of the guys that I work with top out at 50k/yr. I'm earing 30k more than that, because I also do the design and analysis work. Just like any other trade, more skills= bigger paycheque. Stay flexible, to be able to adapt when required.

regards

regards

[laszlozoltan]

hey guys


laszlozoltan ... did the program at the institute of trades helped u in ur career or it was just the experience u gained elsewhere !! and if u dont mind telling how much r the fees at this place ?

Everyone i talk to warns me that Cnc mahinist is an average kindof field where u would be just making enough money to survive and be prepared to work at a low position for number of years without learning anything since, all the places basically want people to just operate machines and by working over there u won't be able to go ahead and become a programmer, i mean making money is not a priority but i was wondering what's the average per hour u make when u start and whats the maximum !!

the course helped open doors, but overall I think it was me who pushed things really; getting in to start meant sending out 2 or 3 applications per day m-f for about 3 or 4 months- having no experience really hurt, once I had some experience it got a lot easier. but beyond that, I still pushed, meaning I got a demo version of mastercam off ebay, autocad, text books and I actually use them. visit a lot of forums. I don't think that I if I didn't push so hard I would've gotten in. "knowing" how to program comes after knowing how to machine; and that takes a fair bit of experience, observation and experimentation. You're not going to get much experience if you are doing the same thing day after day all day long. That really should be your indicator when to move on; when it gets boring.

for pay just to get in just say yes to whatever they want to give you; stay there at least 3 months- past your probation, to prove to the next guy that you are good enough to be kept. after that you can start asking slightly higher starting wage at each new employer. most guys don't want to talk about how much they are making. look at the cars they have in the parking lot; you'll see who is and who ain't making what.

the trades course you'll have to call the school to discover what the cost will be; mine was almost 10 years ago, one of the teachers was **it and I nearly left the course because of it ; but I complained about his inability and we got much better instruction following that. if you're paying for the course don't settle for any fool they hire to teach- he should know how to speak english and able to answer your questions with insight. I have trained some guys from shedian collage- and george brown and was astoshed to learn how little and mis-informed the graduate was after 2 years; obviously the teachers there dont look after the students in their care. waste of time from whom I met. but the private trades schools can be just as easily be a fly-by-night operation- I was just glad that mine didn't fly away while I went there. it wouldn't hurt you to just go and apply at a few shops, often after you finish your application the supervisor or the boss will show you his shop; you'll get an idea of the work environment you might find yourself in. they might even offer a job that might fit your schedule too. right now you are young so it is very important to choose your road wisely- hopefully you will find something that makes you happy to do.

[DareBee]

the trades course you'll have to call the school to discover what the cost will be; mine was almost 10 years ago, one of the teachers was **it and I nearly left the course because of it ; but I complained about his inability and we got much better instruction following that. if you're paying for the course don't settle for any fool they hire to teach- he should know how to speak english and able to answer your questions with insight. I have trained some guys from shedian collage- and george brown and was astoshed to learn how little and mis-informed the graduate was after 2 years; obviously the teachers there dont look after the students in their care.

IMO the system and job market have screwed the educater.
Have we heard the saying "Those that can do; those that can't teach"
This is not true in all cases, but sadly it is true more often than not in the "blue collar" trades.

I was offered a teaching job some years back (I don't figure I could manage teaching secondary school) but at less than half my salary!! It is a no brainer.
People that are good at what they do AREN'T going to take a massive pay CUT to teach.
Tell me - who does that leave as teachers?

stay there at least 3 months- past your probation, to prove to the next guy that you are good enough to be kept. after that you can start asking slightly higher starting wage at each new employer.

I like to see a minimum of 1 year at each placement.
A guy that has 20 1-year jobs will also get his resume tossed.

[laszlozoltan]

you have to get your foot in and then start to move; I think that as long as you are able to learn and able to do more at a shop there is a reason to continue there; I am also saying to anyone not to waste time just pushing a button, but if that is your 1st cnc job stick it out for a bit before looking for the next place. my 2nd cnc shop I was a button pusher on a cnc lathe- very very boring, and pay wasn't better from what I was doing before cnc either ; but it drove me to look elsewhere in the morning after a dead tiring night shift after I did my 3 months there- very soon after I got an interview and a job at a much higher pay where I learned a lot because I impressed the supervisor with my fortitude. I am also saying don't quit and run away just because it's hard or boring or low pay.

[JROM]

STAY IN SCHOOL
If you can.
I've been a tool and die maker for 30 years and had some real good jobs and made some good money but to this day I regret not staying in school. You would not believe some of the morons I have had to take orders from just because they had the paper on the wall and I didn't!

[cam1]

True words JROM. Sage advice. I second the opinion that it's a drag (to take advice from some *@&!!! moron who thinks he knows it all, which is what prompted me to go to college 15 yrs ago. I've never looked back. The 3 years I invested (in myself) were among the best 3 years of my life. Now I'm the guy (not moron) that gives the orders!

regards

[MASTERCAMMASTER]

IMO the system and job market have screwed the educater.
Have we heard the saying "Those that can do; those that can't teach"
This is not true in all cases, but sadly it is true more often than not in the "blue collar" trades.

I was offered a teaching job some years back (I don't figure I could manage teaching secondary school) but at less than half my salary!! It is a no brainer.
People that are good at what they do AREN'T going to take a massive pay CUT to teach.
Tell me - who does that leave as teachers?




I like to see a minimum of 1 year at each placement.
A guy that has 20 1-year jobs will also get his resume tossed.

My goal since I was 16 was not to be a machinist, but to own the place.
Before I started my shop I had over 100 jobs. Around 5 per year.
The more places you work, the more you learn from diffrent people.
My old resume stated I worked at 5 places, not 100. So I lied, BFD.
I am proud to say that I have never worked at a place long enough to get a yearly vacation. Except my own shop (8 years)
Can't hold a job, LOL, Why would anyone want to work for someone else becides themselfs?
The longer you work at a place the longer you go nowhere.
I realize Los Angeles is a little diffrent than other cities because you can work at 1 machine shop a week for life.
Here in the Sanfrancisco bay area there are only around 5,000 machine shops.
Good luck WITH YOUR SAME OLD DUMB BOSS, YOUR SAME OLD DUMB PARTS, AND YOUR SAME OLD DUMB JOB.

[DareBee]

Hey

Why you jumping on me?

I am failing to see the relevancy of you quoting me?

Although your comments do fit the thread profile.

BTW It is my shop.

[ZenOrbit]

I've been in the trade for about 7 years, and, not to toot my own horn, but I'm pretty damn good despite my lack of any certification.

I'm just smart enough to know that there's always something new to learn.

Well, here's my question: I haven't got any papers to speak of, and I just got a pay increase to around 58k as a cnc lathe process planner and programer. What should I expect my earning potential to cap out at? I never thought I'd even get to this point, but here I am.

I often wonder about starting my own shop, but it's scary as hell, and I have to wonder if I'd be able to keep steady work.

thanks for the ears

[dertsap]

I've been in the trade for about 7 years, and, not to toot my own horn, but I'm pretty damn good despite my lack of any certification.

I'm just smart enough to know that there's always something new to learn.

Well, here's my question: I haven't got any papers to speak of, and I just got a pay increase to around 58k as a cnc lathe process planner and programer. What should I expect my earning potential to cap out at? I never thought I'd even get to this point, but here I am.

I often wonder about starting my own shop, but it's scary as hell, and I have to wonder if I'd be able to keep steady work.

thanks for the ears

in this job market it's hard to say where the cap ends ,i'd say your at about an average wage for a skilled guy , look around at what other guys are making , if your good your good and your wages will be paid accordingly ,whether you've got certs or not ,
the only places ive seen that even question if a guy has a cert is usually a union outfit and even then they'll end up saying they aren t necessary to get the job

[laszlozoltan]

you may be a great machinist- there are a lot who are. how are you as a salesman ?

[ZenOrbit]

you may be a great machinist- there are a lot who are. how are you as a salesman ?

If you're asking me, I suppose I'm alright as a salesman. I have to really believe in what I'm selling. If I truly feel I've got a great product, or service, I can drum up sales.

I'm just afraid of putting up money I can't afford to loose, and, um, losing it.

Maybe that's the difference between those who talk, and those who DO.

Having said that, I've got a kid, and another one on the way, a mortgage... the list goes on.

Wah wah, I know, but it kinda makes it hard to jump head first into something as involving, money-sucking and time consuming as a machining business

Rock on

[laszlozoltan]

well ZenOrbit I was very much in a similar predicament not long ago; and I choose not to jump- I'm not a salesman at all. I don't regret my decision as I am sure I would now be regretting making the jump if I did. I might suggest that you wait a bit if you do; there are an number of closings expected and you'll be able to buy good used machines at auction; best of luck to you man- whatever you decide- may it be the right one for you.

[ZenOrbit]

Hey thanks, brother.

On a side note- my wife would probably kill me if I went out and bought a machine!

(they're not cheap, you know!)