[elmerfud]

Hello, I am hoping to get a thread running where only short stroke type engines are the topic, not wanting to focus on electro valves or strange rotor machines.

[kz1670]

I am up for it. I have been considering building a shorter stroke version of a motorcycle engine I am currently running.

[sm_46]

Is that a drawing of the Ferrari 3.6L V8? If it is, then I am very impressed and will not ask how or where you got that pic Do you have any other views or specific dimensions like bore, stroke, compression etc? I would be interested in this project once I finish drawing up a model turbine in solidworks (i've attached a pic)

[elmerfud]

Yes it is, I only have a front view dxf with a head cutaway.
But im sure its factory source drawn, the bore to stroke is 85x79 but i dont have cad for the internals below the head.
It came out of a owners manual pdf file. (neat trick)
Your turbine looks nicely surface modeled.
Do many people turn old turbos into turboshaft successfully?
Id like to do that one day, a turboprop rc plane would be to die for.
Are you stamping the blade profile or machining it?
Stamping would reduce build time massively and make blades cheap to replace.

[sm_46]

I'm not sure how successful turbo to turbo shaft conversions are because they are very rare and rarely documented. This turbine is being modeled from a set of plans as I have no previous experience with turbines and wanted a good working final product. The company has all of the parts available for purchase if you want, but I plan on machining everything but the compressor wheel which is from a Garrett turbo. I just recently purchased a 1:150 harmonic drive and I will make my 4th axis from this to finish this turbine project.

I also found the manual with the drawing and a picture of the camshaft with pistons and the valve side of the heads. I'll post them soon.

[elmerfud]

Sounds like a turbine would be the go.
I spent 5 years reverse engineering a ferrari f1 v10 from cad images and photos of dismantled engine parts, i now have detailed plans. The work involves 7 highly detailed casting patterns, 40 valves, stems, finger followers, 20 straight cut gears, 10 connecting rods, an incredibly detailed crankshaft, 4 camshafts to name just a few of the parts involved, totalling maybe 1000 parts.
I have not started, its to supermassive project to fathom now i have studied its intricacies.
A turbine looks far easier and could yield a far greater potential from loss of friction alone.
But still i want this V10, so slowly over the years i shall make the patterns and make bits and pieces, but it is no practical project for any short to medium term results.

[vishnu]

Good Start Elmer, i would rather die to build one. But as you say its not practical to make 1000 parts in a short or medium term single handedly. i think if more members can join to build i think it is achiveable in a short span. Say ten people making 100 parts and sharing. Well i am interesed and will be the first volunter. Inviting all enthusiats to join.

[jrrdw]

What are you planing on building it out of? Machine down from bar stock, or cast the block and heads? Would the cams be exact match's, 4 of a kind? Or would the lobes be placed in different positions of timing? How much of a scale down is it from original size?

Is class in secession?
:cheers:

[sm_46]

Hey elmer,

Did you make a cad drawing of the F1 engine? If so, can you post some pics?

Just out of curiosity, you mentioned that you had cad drawings and pictures of parts of the engine. Where did you manage to find this?

[elmerfud]

The V8 plans come from a pdf file from ferrari, a program called 'adobe illustrator' extracts the 'scalable vector graphics' into dwg or dxf. Often it is original factory cad the artists used. I have not exhausted all avenues of possible cad data to be obtained from this method. If i have the band width i will try and find some motorcycle engines from factory manuals. I will make a 1/4 scale v10 motor but simplify the innards to be a possiblity. I started designing a 3/4 scale design using CBR900 pistons and 1300cc for hillclimb.
But then after much thought a destroked Mazda Kf v6 or a hyabusu engine is much smarter. Realisticly, I will try and make billet v10 about 160mm long, i will keep you posted. I posted this forum because 'MotoGp single cylinder' thread by JLcortes had died of and was wondering how many like minded people were out there. (was a good thread)

[elmerfud]

Well, this is the v10 so far. Figuring out spark plugs will be fun as will oil pressurising the crank shaft. I started out with a reverse design cad of the ferrari v10 but have decided to apply the design to a 72 degree renault package as i am currently 3d modelling a R24 f1. (engine balance also)
I have modelled a F2003ga in surfaces (phew took ages), but i am a alonso fan, schumacher sucks.
Has anyone had success 'white metaling' conrods at home?
Has anyone succeeded holding oil pressure in scale motors?
I am worried it will run for 10 minutes then weld itself frozen.
Does anyone have a blog for rejetting walbro carbys?
Has anyone succesfully figured out a self contained ignition in scale without large boxes of hidden stuff?
Would appreciate any help.

[jrrdw]

Well, this is the v10 so far. Figuring out spark plugs will be fun as will oil pressurising the crank shaft. I started out with a reverse design cad of the ferrari v10 but have decided to apply the design to a 72 degree renault package as i am currently 3d modelling a R24 f1. (engine balance also)
I have modelled a F2003ga in surfaces (phew took ages), but i am a alonso fan, schumacher sucks.
Has anyone had success 'white metaling' conrods at home?
Has anyone succeeded holding oil pressure in scale motors?
I am worried it will run for 10 minutes then weld itself frozen.
Does anyone have a blog for rejetting walbro carbys?
Has anyone succesfully figured out a self contained ignition in scale without large boxes of hidden stuff?
Would appreciate any help.

I would use a Flow Jet carburetor with a bowl, a Walbro diaphragm type wont feed the engine enough gas. As for jetting a Walbro, you can order jets from Tower Hobbies and sometimes find kits on Ebay in the RC toys section, parts and assories.

Just scale the oiling system down to the size you need it to be???? I'm guessing. Make a magneto for the ignition. If you know your computer control systems, you can probly control the entire needs with a small flash drive???? Again i'm guessing.

[stevehuckss396]

Well, this is the v10 so far. Figuring out spark plugs will be fun as will oil pressurising the crank shaft. I started out with a reverse design cad of the ferrari v10 but have decided to apply the design to a 72 degree renault package as i am currently 3d modelling a R24 f1. (engine balance also)
I have modelled a F2003ga in surfaces (phew took ages), but i am a alonso fan, schumacher sucks.
Has anyone had success 'white metaling' conrods at home?
Has anyone succeeded holding oil pressure in scale motors?
I am worried it will run for 10 minutes then weld itself frozen.
Does anyone have a blog for rejetting walbro carbys?
Has anyone succesfully figured out a self contained ignition in scale without large boxes of hidden stuff?
Would appreciate any help.

I'm not sure what scale you are working in so take this for what it is!!

I bought my mini spark plugs from Dale Detrich for the little Bugatti. the thread is a 1/4-32 so they would be about 1:3 scale. If you need smaller I have seen 10-40 thread plugs on the MJN website.

http://www.daledetrich.com/


I have no idea what "White metaling" con rods means but if you mean casting mini rods at home, yes. Many people have cast rods at home. If you have a CNC mill it may be easier to cut them from solid.

Hundreds of people have engines that hold oil pressures just like there full size counterparts. Check out Eugine Corl's 350 Chevy or Jerry Howell's V4.

Some of the V8 builders use walbro carbs in pairs. With the V12 you could use 3 like the 365 Ferrari 2 cam engine or 6 like the 250 GTO setup. They seem to work well. I put a single on my little Bugatti but have not fired it yet so i cannot comment.

Smallest ignition i have seen is MJN.

http://www.mjnfabrication.com/pages/948292/index.htm


Hope this helps!

Steve

[elmerfud]

Brilliant Steve, big thumbs up!
Am going to cut solid rods from barstock, bronze weld the inner journals, clean of excess bronze, reassemble and rebore the rod so i have a precision bronze bore conrod. Thank you everyone for your help, now you must be expecting photos of metal, not dreamy cad screenshots, between my 2 jobs and my cad time i will try.
Thanks again!

[mcmurray]

Nice work. Have you considered running electronic fuel injection instead of carbys?

[elmerfud]

Maybe one really small injector could work. (Honda, Kawasaki)
January 'Model Engineer' in Australia had an amazing article on hobby ic engines, vintage motorcycle and aircraft motors seem to be all the rage as information is easy to find out about them.
I have drawn several F1 motors, but there is no way of verifying them as close to original, except for 049 v10 and DFV v8.
DFV v8 was based on a development motor made from Ford Cortina road car engine parts and shares a number of internal sizes.
The bugatti engine in the other thread is amazing, I have seen Oldsmobile aurora v8s for sale for mega dollars, and Porsche carrera four cam motors.
That v8 in the other thread is cool to, I pray companys will release more blueprints for the public as these seem the be the eternal struggle to find.
Renaults RS9 v10 is massively outdated and a very cool engine, surely some drawings could be leaked to the public. I live and hope.
Of course you could buy an old VW 1600 or Chev v8 and just measure up the parts to scale in cad, thats the easiest way to copy an engine.
I am currently drawing Mclarens Mp4/5d, thats another hard motor to get details on (honda v10).
I suppose that as petrol becomes a vintage rarity like coal fired steam, then more old timers will get into minaiture IC motors and it will become more mainstream like steam enthusiasts, its pretty obscure stuff.

[bfloresf1]

elmerfud did you ever finish the F1 V10? I am very impresed with it. I also would like to make something like that, where did you find the PDF file? I have looked on the internet and havent found anything. Did you use Ilistartor to convert the PDF files to DXF?

Ben

[elmerfud]

pdftown.com has heaps of car manuals. Only 2000 to 2004 manuals seem to have the vector drawings. Must have got wise to it.
Ferrari 036,047 and ilmor 98 are a few other cad drawings i spent 100's of hrs on. I cant share the stuff because it took so darn long to draw and is somebody else's stuff i am copying, but do it for yourself, its fun.
I have nearly finished my 1st desktop cnc. I will probably have to think about starting a website or a blog instead of using the 'zone' as a soapbox.
Its all good fun mate, sure beats television!

[bfloresf1]

Elmerfud thanks; I will look at that site. I don’t want to rip you off, I was wondering where I could find more Specs and measurements so that I could Cad it up. I am a very good AutoCAD and SolidWorks user. You should start up a website and you could even sell some of your stuff. I will keep looking for more info on the Ferrari F1 V8, V12 and Aurora V8.

If you or anyone need some drafting help just let me know, I would be happy to help. As soon as I have some thing I will post some pictures and files.

Do you use illustrator to convert your PDF files to DXF or DXG?

Ben

[elmerfud]

Yes Ben, Illustrator has to tool to extract DXF/DWG.
I tell you, make sure to get your cnc up and running soon, I wish I had done it sooner.