[Gkohl]

BTW, I don't know much about their service or longevity, but I also saw a Chiron MC do some very impressive work.

[aaron p]

Like the mazak PC/Fusion controls, but their machines need to be built a little more heavy duty. If they were built like Mori-Seiki machines and had their Mazak control, it would be my ideal machine.

[APP]

Okuma's were the first CNC I ever setup and ran. MC-3V I think, nice little machines. We had a couple of Kitamuras (one was a pallet changer, worked you to death), a Maho (funky axes), but you always remember your first "love."

No question of my least favorite - Acrolock. It had these enormous chip bins on each side. They were the size of commercial garbage dumpsters. After running one for a while I found out why - to catch the tool holders when they shot out, which was a regular occurrence.

Acroloc tool holders. rofl I think we had a lathe that was set up full time just to make all those stupid pins and crap. God I hated those machines.

[APP]

It's that same old saw "how fast you want to go? how much you got to spend?"
If you really need to squeeze the numbers and do it over and over step up to the Mori.
That said if you are doing regular work + or - .005 a Haas machine has a lot of bang for the buck. My main question when I buy a new machine is about the outfit that is going to support it. Very important if you don't want to sit around and wait for someone to come and fix your machine. And I don't care what anyone says, THEY ALL BREAK DOWN SOONER OR LATER.

My Haas holds tenths all day. I spend all day on a Mori with a **** Fanuc control. Moris are nice machines, but they are not all that and pot stickers too..

I have never run any live tool machine that gives as nice a surface finish milling as my Haas. Maybe the NL series does, but the sls can lick my taint.

Had I been able to find one...I would have bought a Okuma. Lathe, not mill.

[mathblaster]

i like the mazaks i use 410 nexus ver. mill and have no problem keeping the + or - .005 and i do alot of pipe work in it and it gives the best performance in the harder steels like 304 and 316 stainless

[Traceycnc300]

I voted haas because I run one day in and day out at my regular job and have found them to be good machines but I would prefer matsuura.Which is why I bougth one for my personal shop. 85' mc1000vs2. Very heavy duty.

[udrııl79]

1. MORİSEİKİ


AND

my fovorite cnc is VİCTOR.... TAİCHUNG..

[tobyaxis]

Mori!!!!!!!!!

Then HAAS then Bridgeport / Hardinge

[underthetire]

I have worked for Mori Seiki and Okuma dealers as the Service manager for both. Both very good quality machines, but there are differences.
1. Mori parts availability beats Okuma hands down. No contest here.
2. Okuma has a very nice control, however, replacement parts are $$$ compared to Fanuc/Mits and the new Mori Maps is close.
3. Mori seems to do a better job at automation, and high speed. (plus you can get extra Mcodes without going through all the Okuma hoops.
4. The Taiwan Okumas seem to be just a little lower quality, where all Mori's are still built in Japan.
Bottom line, both are very good. Okuma 4 axis lathes are easier to use, Mori mills blow the Okumas away. My prefrence is usually Okuma turning, Mori milling.

[CNCZILLA]

In my humble opinion Bridgeport, Hardinge, and Haas should not even be on this list. I have worked on most everything cnc and have worked for an Okuma dist so i have good all around knowledge. I would agree with underthetire, Okuma for turning, Mori for milling, and then there is everything else i guess. I would own a Haas before i would own a Mazak, thier service is absolutley horrid. Just my opinion. If you are talking laser cutting machines then hands down no question Trumpf. Punching, Amada, bending Cincinnati.

[miljnor]

Your forgot to tell us who's money we're spending...that makes a big difference!

[DSIF]

Kitamura for milling. Okuma for turning.
Dan

[Jaxbubba]

Kitamura for milling and Okuma for Lathe operations

[DouglasR]

I have both Mori and Okuma. Both are high quality machines. If I had to choose just one - it'd be Mori. Parts and service are right on.

[Rubenv]

I would like Mori Seki, It´s a nice Machine.

[DouglasR]

To me, Mori and Okuma are absolute TOPS. You just can't get any better. I've had both and have all good things to say. My shop currently has a 1983 Okuma LB15 lathe and a 1986 Mori-Seiki SL3-H lathe along with a Pratt & Whitney Tri-Mac Machining center. The Okuma and Mori I've worked on since they were new, and bought them when the shop that owned them went under. Reliable and accurate.

The P&W has actually been quite good, but it's really made by Hamai of Japan. Other than a bit slow, it's been a workhorse.

[cncDecoder]

I have used both Mazak's and Okuma's (lathes and mills) in an engineering shop specialising in low-quanitity-batch mining parts,
based on speed of job change-over I would prefer Mazak's.
The Mazak Integrex lathes are practically a license to print money (when set with a part shuttle and GL gantry loader), especially when using Mazatrol to produce quick programs for non-complex parts.
95% of the milling jobs I do require only 2.5D machining (drilling, pocket-milling, tapping, facing etc),
so using Mazatrol's conversational 2.5D unit programming is a hell of alot quicker than Okuma's IGF (or having to look thru lines of ISO G-code).
BUT... Experience has shown me that Okuma's are a more solid machine than Mazak's, and the service from Okuma Australia is a million times better than the Australian Mazak representative.
Should I ever start my own workshop I would buy a Mazak - but based on the idea of never crashing the machine (ha! unlikely :bs...
Okuma with a good cam-package would see great things happen though.

[RevEdo]

This is gonna take a while, lol. Started running machines in 1979. Last machinist job was 1988-GE River Works Lynn, Mass. Been selling cnc since then(good job IUE201). I have worked directly for the factory at Tornos and also DMG. I worked for both So-Cal Haas distrubutors, HFO-Torrance (Ellison Machy) and MTS- Anaheim (3 diff times). I worked for a japanese importer selling Roku-Roku,Takamatsu and Horkos mostly in 20+ machine fully automated cell lines to 1st/2nd/3rd tier automotive suppliers.I have worked for SoCal distributors selling:Cin-Milacron, Bridgeport, Okamoto, Wasino, Charmilles,Tsugami,Kitamuura,Okamoto,Hamaii,Yasda, Viper,YCM(Supermaxx), Kia,Leadwell, Hyundai, Hwacheon, Ikegai, Kiwa, Kira,Dainichi, Hitachi Seiki, Hitachi Wire,Dah-Lih,Toyoda, Hermle, Traub, WFL,Anca,Weldon, Tschudin, Koyo,Nicholas Correa, Romi,Samsung, to name a few.

I currently sell Kitamuura, Hermle, YCM, Okamoto,Omax, WFL,Eurotech, Lico, Spinner as the main lines.
Most of the machines being mentioned here, and all the poll machines are what I would term your "popular brands".
The 3 japanese machines in the poll are easily 5 times better than the others. I will start with with them, even though I never sold the brands. I have been in literally thousands of shops from New England to Mid/SoCal and hands down the most reliable machines I have ever seen are Mori's. Not even close. Examples: The Byran Co had 30+ Moris (mostly TC's and 3 or 4 MC's). When I last called on that account in 1999, their oldest machine a 1978 SL1A. 21 years, 30 or so machines, ZERO service calls. Another shop in So. Fullerton had over a dozen and the oldest was 18 years new.The ONLY service issue was on one of the oldest machines, the back-up battery crapped out and they lost all the parameters/ladder pages. That was the norm. And they can rip too, ain't no light duty machine, for sure. Okuma seem to be more reliable than Mazak and easily take a deeper cut. LM schmellM, box ways are better.

Haas? What can I say about Haas? I love em and I hate em.Absolute piles of junk design-wise. You can scratch metal with them, lol. Seriously, very light duty.Pull the covers off and see how they are built and belly-aching laughter is damn near impossible to subdue.Undersized drive motors advertised with false or mis-leading (at-best) power ratings.Yep folks, Haas learned from Fadal and came up with a new machine tool rating standard: PEAK horsepower. Read the manual you get AFTER you buy the machine. Where the rest of the world agreed to an industry protcol "MTDR" (machine tool duty rated at 30 minutes use per hour at the stated number) Fadal and Haas "peak ratings" are vaguely rated at "around" 1 minute. Undersized ballscrews anchored with bad designed dinky lil bolt-on pillow blocks.Hell, the Taiwanese can't contain their laughter. Not a single ground mating surface anywhere to be found on the structure. In fact, the only grinders they had when I visited dozens of times were a reishaur gear grinder for the Rotary Products/machine gear boxes and 1 CNC cylindrical (shigiya?) for making their spindles. Hand scraping??He he...ha ha, STOP. Get a plant tour and see for yourself. The will gladly give anyone a complete tour. I highly recommend it, it is very impressive.
Speaking of tour.Gene is a very smart man, nothing but top quality Japanese stuff making his machines. If only he invested in at least 1 Waldrich-Coburg and 1 Yasda could you then put him at the same level as the Japanese and Germans.Even YCM have those machines, as do a few other Taiwan builders.When I left in 04 they where just finishing installation of a 2 story pallet stacker multi machine Mori HMC cell rumored to be well over 2 million bucks.

In defense of Haas, he took Fadals already industry best service model and trumped it times 4. Hands down, the best service you will ever see, bar none. Next day guaranteed is nothing. If you called your machine in before noon and then called me (salesman) and said if we don't get there this afternoon or the machine will be yanked to the parking lot for me to pickup, I'd have a service van there within hours. And not just a guy there with diagnostic tools to figure out the problem, but a van full of just about every part needed to get it running. THAT DAY. How do they know what to carry? Statistics culled and knowing the machines are structurally deficient. As a salesman I was required to call every customer the week following a service call and record a 10 question "service survey" and, like clockwork, mere weeks after the new warranty expired I'd be calling you many times a year. I had 1 customer in Cerritos that I called every single week during my 2 years to fill out multiple service surveys. Granted, he had 18 machines but none where older than 3 years and he only cut aluminum. He was forking out at least 10ger for service every freaking month!! His company was no exception, this was the norm. And to be honest, he was happy with the machines.All he did was make money cuz we kept them up and running. And no, Joe Blow single machine user wasn't treated any different.
Haas are what they are and there is nothing wrong with that as long as you are intellectually honest with your expectations about its capabilities. Gene Haas is a great American success story. Power to him, I will always root for him.
Bridgeport(BMI) and Hardinge? Sadly, for all intent purposes,gone.
BMI made really nice VMC'c during their short foray into that market. Ground and hand scraped column to base surfaces. Check out their table top, ground surface. Never gonna see that on a Haas. The head had a spindle bore that was ground and then they lapped the spindle cartridge into each machine. yes, their UK and CT plants had Yasda's.Light duty machines compared to the Japanese but beautifully built. Alas, that stupid pile of crap DX32 CNC. All that time and loving care put into the structure nullified by cheap arse drives/motors/electrics. By the time they smartened up and moved over to Yaskawa drives/motor and then Fanuc CNC, it was too late as Haas and Fadal blew right past them. If you can find the late 90's-2002 machines, they can be had for cheap and there's nothin to be ashamed of.

Finally, Hardinge.That once grand place Elmira, relegated to making only collets/spindle tooling. That next Super Precision you buy is coming directly from Mainland........China that is. They have decided there isn't enough profit in the Taiwan re-badged machines and have a brandy new plant in mainland.
Speaking of Taiwan? They have matched and maybe even surpassed Korea. Hell, they make a damn good Japanese machine. Did anyone go to AeroDef and see that 5 Axis c-frame vertical machining center Toyot.rrrrAweaYamawhatzi? in Selways booth? It was right next to a regular 3 axis ToyoYamaAweawhosi YEKT VMC with its inner covers removed displaying top notch Japan identical construction. Missed it? Have a look at your nearest YCM dealer to see the proper way to house ballscrews.And real ballscrews at that.

Didn't even get around to the highend Jap/Euro machines like Maatsuura, Nakamuura,Mitsui Seiki,Kitamuura,Makino,Hermle,WFL and more.

If I can afford it,Mori or better.

If I am scraping pennies, nothing wrong with Haas. BUT, if you can fork over a few bucks a day more and are not blinded by origin, you best go look at the good quality builders from Taiwan cuz several famous Japanese builders proudly afix their nameplate to them.
Make sure they are a true builder and not an integrator slappin parts together from the cheapest/fastest source they can. I am biased of course but, YCM pour their own iron in their on-site foundry and machine every major and most minor metal stuffs on site. Yes, they have a Yasda and a W-C. I hear the same about my tough competitor Awea/Yama Seiki. Was in a job shop in Gardena in March that puts the tough material and tight tolerance work on them cuz their relatively young Haas cannot do it. Femco and Leadwell have outstanding reputations. In fact, the best/most reliable Cincy-Milacron turning centers I ever sold, Talon 208 and 210, where re-badged Leadwells!! Yang is another one that comes to mind. Honor Seiki, Vision Wide and You-Ji are fantastic.Ganesh (they are Taiwan) have a great rep on the west coast
I am sure theres a few more. Stick with the ones mentioned most, offered by the larger and more established dealers.

All said and done, all 6 machines have their purpose. It's what you want/need and can afford that matters.

Whew, I'm outta breath. And, to make a short story long....lmao.

[DouglasR]

I've always been a Mori-Seiki guy when I can afford to. You'll pay a premium for their machines but the accuracy, rigidity and service are all top quality. Okuma would be next in line for me, but lately they've seem to have a problem with their dealer body. As I said before, I've got both and they are both good money makers.

Haas is "ok" if you're on a tight budget. It will get your parts done, IF you don't push it too hard. Fadal has never impressed me. Box ways mean little if you're constantly smoking spindles and drives.

Doosan has come a long way. So have the taiwan builders. I had an early 80s Victor TNS-2 lathe that I absolutely HATED. Horrible machine. But the newer ones look way better.

American machines are an anathema. There are so few actually made here.

[miljnor]

If your a business man, buy smart. Not in this order: least expensive, least maintenence, best service, best accuracy, longevity.

I personaly want a machine that works is cheap and makes my parts. Don't care the name, or brand and no matter what any yahoo tells you 5 cheap machines will outperform 1 expensive one in the throughput areana every time (same horsepower etc.) I've worked with all the major awesomeness awesome machines and they are great hands down but overkill for most jobs and definitely too expensive if your not doing sub tenth work.

They cut metal, with varying degrees of accuracy. so get the one that fits the bill for the cheapest.

I buy haas and if I can get em cheap I buy used. And I've made lots of money with the ones I have.

Proof is in the profits. be a business man or go work for someone else.