[mgb1974]

We have a VF2 that came with the factory twin probe wire system. OTS tool setter and MP40-2 Touch Probe.

Trying to get the basic operation of it. I have downloaded the powerpoints from HAAS about using VQC with the probe.

Questions is how does the probe output data? On the Controller screen? What values does it output (T values like cmm or coordinate values?)

I seen how to use VQC for tool setting length but not diameter. How do you program to input tool diameter?

Any other comments would be appreciated. Still working through figuring it out.

Thanks
Matt

[guypb]

Even though the Haas comes with VQC, it actually has a complete and very capable set of Renishaw Inspection Plus macros installed. This allows you to update work & tool offsets, as well as print reports etc. You can write values to macro variables etc. If you want I can send you the manual. The tool setting probe also allows you to set length &/or diameter and do in cycle tool breakage detection - powerful stuff.

Contact Brent at [email protected] - he'll tell you how to get data out of your Haas probe onto professional looking inspection reports!

[HelicopterJohn]

Hi Matt,

I am a newbie and just purchased a new HAAS TM-1P with the Renishaw Wireless Probing system. WIPS.

I am just getting acquainted with the probing system and I made a little document that describes in my words what each of the probing cycles does and how to accomplish the probing tasks. The on screen information is not that great. I have not proofed it as I just made it today.

I realize my system is not the same as yours but this may be of some help. I intend to do the same thing with the tool setter.

On my machine you can run the Renishaw probe software from VQC or the Intutive programming software. It has the capability to save you a ton of time in your setups.

Hope this is some help.

John

[pmurdock]

Hey there.. Interestingly enough I bought the WIPS option as well.. Just a heads up - you cannot calibrate the work probe using VQC you have to use the IPS calibration code. This is if your probe has a round Haas logo on it. I beat myself up trying to calibrate the darn thing using VQC but it never set the offsets correctly.

The other thing was when I tried to measure a tool length offset on the table probe it touched off on the tip and then turned on the spindle and tried to touch the sides of the probe. is it supposed to turn on a drill bit and rotate it and then touch of the table probe.. Seemed like that would destroy the table probe so I hit the E-stop just before it hit it.. thought maybe it was a bug in the code??

guypb - that inspection plus programming book would be handy to have.. Could you mail that to me via PM? I don't know why but I can't seem to find it anywhere.

cheers,
Paul

[HelicopterJohn]

Hi Paul,

I am just a newbie to all this probing stuff so what I say may not be correct. I will let the guys that have some Renishaw WIPS probing experience offer corrections as necessary.

When you do tool offsets using the IQC (white screen) it not only sets the tool length but also determines the actual diameter of the tool. The spindle comes down until it touches the tool probe and then retracts and approaches again at a slower feed. Then it retracts slightly again and the spindle starts (but in a reverse direction - look at the rotation arrow on your screen) This allows the back edge of the cutting sufface to rub (not attempt to cut) the tool probe while checking the diameter of the tool. It will move the Y axis to place the tool in front of the probe at the depth you specified in the initial input screen then do a couple of touch offs. Then it will raise the tool above the tool probe and move to the Y axis so that the tool clears the tool probe appropriately and go to the depth specfied and probe the other side of the tool.

The only thing that really scares me is when the tool makes initial contact with the probe. The tool seems to hit the tool setter harder than necessary. Guess speed is what they are looking for and it doesn't hurt the tool probe.

The other thing I did when probing a ball mill was treat it like a drill so it would touch off the center of the ball mill instead of doing any type of an offset to measure the tips of the end mill. Maybe someone else can shed some light on this as I may not be doing that correctly.

If you use the VQC (black screen) it allows for different types of tool probing. You can just probe for the height of the tool (the spindle doesn't come on) or probe for the height and diameter (the spindle comes on and checks the tool diameter front and back using a Y axis jog) as well as other options listed in the templetes.

Hope some of the experienced users chime in and offer any tips and tricks about using the probing system.

John

[pmurdock]

Then it retracts slightly again and the spindle starts (but in a reverse direction - look at the rotation arrow on your screen) This allows the back edge of the cutting sufface to rub (not attempt to cut) the tool probe while checking the diameter of the tool. It will move the Y axis to place the tool in front of the probe at the depth you specified in the initial input screen then do a couple of touch offs.

That's interesting... I hadn't even considered that it might be spinning the tool in the reverse direction in order to avoid cutting. It would make sense though to increase the rigidity of the tool so that when touching off the probe you don't get any deflection.

So far I've thoroughly enjoyed using this probe though.. I have some big plans incorporating these macros into setups and even inspection reports. I'm trying to use a Lantronix WiPort (Serial to WiFi) module to enable me to connect via IP (using a virtual COM port on another computer) to control via DNC and gather serial report data.. certainly exciting what you can do with these machines.

cheers,
Paul

[Vern Smith]

The first touch on the tool setter is done at close to 10 IPM so it whacks the anvil pretty hard. If you look at the program in your MDI window you will see the Z feed rates called for.

Vern

[Donkey Hotey]

The first touch on the tool setter is done at close to 10 IPM so it whacks the anvil pretty hard.

That's why I go into Handle-Feed and 'spin down' the feed rate to something slower.

But I don't think it's the impact we're feeling/sensing when it makes contact. It's the whack of the servos stopping. My VF-2 hammers the concrete pretty well when it's peck drilling.

I cut the feed rate (during probing) because I figure that the slower it approaches, the more accurate the touch-off will be.

What I didn't realize is that there are Quick Code screens for the probing (white ones). I've gotta' go take another look. I poke right past the white screens into VQC--I've never even looked at 'em.

[Vern Smith]

If you use the VQC program that sets multiple tools it has to come down from Z0 (naturally) for each tool after the tool change. I think the 10 ipm plunge rate is to speed up the probing cycle, it's a long slow way from Z0 to -15 or so for 5 or 6 tools. The Renishaw also takes three whacks at the anvil, the last one at 1.8 ipm if memory serves me ( which it seldom does ) so I don't think accuracy suffers.

On my machine the white screens are part of the intuitive programming system. I've used it a little and have found it much less "intuitive" than VQC where the probing macros are concerned. Of course that could be due to operator idiosyncrasies.

I've gotten reliable rumors that Haas is going to dump VQC. They have already sold off the proprietary rights to a third party Internet educational company. My guess is this is their opening gambit into a controller based CAM system. Remember, for every machine replacement there are 5 or 10 software updates, every one a revenue generating event.

Vern

[fourperf]

not to hijack this thread but what variation do you guys see day to day on your offsets for your tooling. I have seen up to 4 tenths.

Mark

[Vern Smith]

I've had mine for a short time so don't have much of a data base. I have probed X & Y then run the table all over the place, come back and run the macros again with virtually no change. I did it 4 times in succession with the same results. The Z settings are another story. Leave the tool in the spindle and she repeats within .0001. remove and reinstall the tool holder and it can be .0004

[fourperf]

thanks vern, that is exactly what I am seeing.

mark

[fourperf]

acually this morning I was about .001 on the Z

has anyone else seen this much?

[guypb]

That's interesting... I hadn't even considered that it might be spinning the tool in the reverse direction in order to avoid cutting. It would make sense though to increase the rigidity of the tool so that when touching off the probe you don't get any deflection.

The reason it rotates is actually because if you have a cutter that is larger than the anvil, you want to make sure you are probing the lowest cutting point.

I cut the feed rate (during probing) because I figure that the slower it approaches, the more accurate the touch-off will be.

You couldn't be more wrong! You MUST probe at the same feed/speed at which the tool probe is calibrated - same goes for the spindle probe. Accuracy is all dependent on calibration which in turn is dependent on the repeatability of the velocity and distance (and therefore time) the probe travels when it takes a measure point.

Regarding accuracy, I have some charts I produced (in microns) showing the repeatability of a probe measuring a ring gauge with a tool change in between each measured diameter started from cold, running for one hour.
The total error span was 12 microns - pretty crap - but then the machine was sat on a wooden pallet (the graphs show the Y axis drifting over time)!!!
I'll have results next week once the machine is bolted down - I expect 4 microns total span! (What's that - 0.0002?)

[fourperf]

how about in the z?

[mgb1974]

Quick question:

How does the data from the probe output? Screen? Eletronic copy? Paper?

[Vern Smith]

The VQC macros puts the data directly into the offset and tool registers. It also zeros the associated wear fields in the process. You can modify the macros to output the data to other areas. Haven't gotten that far yet.

Vern

[Geof]

acually this morning I was about .001 on the Z

has anyone else seen this much?

To comment on this independent of the probe stuff:

You can get some variation between night and morning if a cold tool has gone into a warm spindle; it goes further up the taper.

You can also get variation if you have chips in there but that is pretty obvious.

And I have found variation depending on whether the taper is nice and clean with just a very light coating of thin oil or whether it is is more or less dripping goo. I have never bothered to check whether the 'goo' squeezes out after a short while so the tool settles down. It probably does because some parts I do have different tools coming to a common Z position and the way our coolant is set up the tapers get a thorough coolant bath every toolchange and the Zs blend perfectly.

[fourperf]

I have been talking to the tech guys at my hfo and what geof says is what they are telling me. It is due to thermal warmup. there is a setting 109 and 112 that you can compensate for this. 1 or 2 tenths is their (haas) spec for the backlash. I have been checking my tools all day and they have been within 2 tenths. I am going to check them again in the morning a see what the difference is. I have been recording all of the tlo and what time I measured.

Mark

[Moparmatty]

Just got a VF-6/50 in the shop the other day with a VF-11/50 arriving in a couple of weeks.

If I want to just measure a bore with the probe do I use G65 P9351 without the W value and only use the D, X and Y values. How can I output the measured diameter of the bore onto the screen of the machine?

Are all of the probe macros shown in the WIPS manual or do I need to get a manual from Renishaw?

One last question for now. If doing a single Z surface probe cycle G65 P9359 W54, can the surface you are probing be set to what ever Z value you want? For example, if probing the top of a 2" thick workpiece, and you want the bottom of the workpiece to be G54 Z0, is this possible? Or do I have to go and manually change the G54 Z offset after probing to reflect the bottom of the part being Zero instead of the top? How would the code look? G65 P9359 W54 Z2.0?

Thanks for the help,

Matt