[adamant]

I think Fanuc is to blame here with the earlier machines in as much as putting all the options in the machine, but the only ones turned on were the ones ordered!
It is a method that is asking for trouble.

Al.

Yup.

Hey what does that button do?

I don't know........ push it!

Parameter 902 is NOT locked. I can change it as I please. I don't have the manual that came with the machine........I hear tell that the parameters where in it?

Maybe Fanuc should have a help page on their website. It is just easy to ask Dave on a site like this.........how do I turn turbo on?

adamant

[Al_The_Man]

.....how do I turn turbo on?

adamant

Whats Turbo?
Al.

[adamant]

Whats Turbo?
Al.

Secret stuff.

[F.Sharifi]

dear sir
with respect to fanuc situation i must added , they must note in this time in net world you can not keep this kind of information as SECRET ! all we do to others just help them to solv problems as very very week after sale service of Fanuc world wide ,.. dont you believe that ? ask customers . always they advise to change Pcbs nothing more and they dont know how customer must be find and haow many time they need to find it ,..

please advice Fanuc to see Siemens and Heidenhain web site they release all technical information for all .

i dont know what can i say ,..it just pitty . fanuc little world to beleive customers .

at last if anyone needs this kind of information please do not hesitate to send request to my private emaile .

[F.Sharifi]

i just remember and keep this way to not send any fanuc ceredit information without knowing exactly related request to machine problems , all we know some of it is very valuable information , and if you dont consider to that , it cause of broken right protect of Fanuc .

its ok , but let me know is there any helpful fanuc web site? is there any information released by fanuc for CNC control system such as very old control up to now ? or important thing can fanuc explain to us for example in OM series after PWE going to 1 we can change all 900 series customers pay for that , and many of it is hardware related , and you can not change the small CNC lathe or Mill machine to APPOLLO 13 !!! says to them dontworry about that , keep the the Hors lish ridding is after that !!

[Wiplash]

Fanuc is really making me mad.I have been on the phone all day long trying to get them out to my shop and they are less than 10 miles from me.They wont deal with me directly They say I have to go through the machine manufacturer.Well the machine manufacturer is no longer (Okuma Howa). So I ve been given the name of some dealer out here who sells something ,but they want to send someone out to trouble shoot the problem that I already have the answer to (given to me by fanuc), before they will contact fanuc to come out here and install it.I have two parts that are $5000 a piece due next friday with ten more due in a month,Lots of 3d surfacing.but machine wont DNC without tool dwelling to let memory catch back up.A toolpath that should of taken 1.5 hrs took 13 hours.So I want to buy the buffer option today right now Ill pay expedite fees I ll let them borrow my wife for a little while.But they wont deal with me.This has me boiling because if I dont get these parts done asap I will lose this job and probably the customer who is about 50% of my buisness.If anyone who has a friend on the inside of fanuc out in southern California, Ill give you a finder fee for your help.I cant cuss on here so#$%@#$^#$^&*%^*()&*()^&(*&*#%^&#%^&

[Al_The_Man]

If this is for expanded memory option you should have checked into Tulip memory, Canada.
http://www.tulipmemory.com/
What control is this BTW?
Al.

[Wiplash]

Already done the memory upgrade ,but complete program is 4.5 megs.I need the remote buffer option turned on and my repair guy said there is also some kind of box or card that needs to be interfaced with control?

[Dan Fritz]

Here's a couple of tricks for making a program smaller. If you can get it down to the size of your internal memory, the problem is solved, no?

Step 1: Remove all N-numbers except those that you really need for mid-file restarts. N-numbers are not needed.

Step 2: Remove all space characters

Step 3: Remove all redundant dimensions. Sometimes you're cutting along a row of points where all the X or Y dimensions are repeated in each block. That's wasteful.

Steps 1, 2, and 3 can be done with some simple changes to your post. The steps below can REALLY cut the program down to size

Step 4: Convert the program to incremental (yes, you heard me .... G91), and at the same time, do step #5:

Step 5: Change the number formatting so that decimal points are not used. Fanucs can use trailing zero format, so X1.2456 can be programmed as X12456. The loss of the decimal points is not the goal here. The goal is to turn those short moves into very short commands, like X23Y15Z2

Step 6: (to be used instead of steps 4 & 5). Convert the point-to-point G01 data into a series of arcs. This kind of output lets you specify points that are farther apart, which reduces the number of blocks in the program

One of my customers sent me a 10mb file once that looked like this:

N0001 G01 G90
N0002 X1.2345 Y4.5678 Z0.1234
N0003 X1.2350 Y4.5678 Z0.1236
N0004 X1.2356 Y4.5678 Z0.1240
(etc.)

I sent him back a file like this:

G01G91
X5Z2
X6Z4
(etc.)

His 10mb file became about 2.3mb in a big hurry. We left some G90 motions and some N-numbers near the points where he might want to resume if the program got interrupted.

Hope this helps.

[extanker59]

Thanks Dan. I've only ocasionally run into file size problems and I've used several of those ideas (1,2,3, and 6). But you go further than I've seen with some great suggestions. I never thought of going incremental or dropping the decimal. Excellent! These are going in my set up notes.

[ALLtra Mach]

One thing about Proprietary stuff.
I work for an OEM, and you would not believe the time that goes into programming, perfecting and documenting all the little features we love on these machines. Some things literally take years to perfect. And all though the price charged for "just turning a bit on here or there" seems outrageous, that is where the funds come from to pay the programmers, engineers and Manual writers that build all that. Yeah Fanuc makes money...so do all of us.

But to say that it is there own fault for not having "Adequate Safety" is like saying "It is OK to steal a car because it wasn't in a locked garage!
I like freebies too, and I have unlocked my share of unpaid for features, but I would never blame Any manufacture for trying to protect their own investment or make a profit.

If you don't like the company, don't buy their Stuff.

Wiplash, Your Situation is just a bunch of political BS that the manufacturer should be ashamed of. We would never treat an end user that way.

Let's show some Ethics guys and keep a good thing going here!
The Ethical way to trade proprietary info is in secret, not on public forums
:devious:

[memoryman]

I have read the posts with great interests (thanks, Dan Fritz).
Here are my views.
When my company starting to sell memory upgrade kits for the "0" controls, we received a cease and desist letter from GEFanuc's senior legal council. I called him and asked what the issue was. His reply: we have no concern about you supplying memory for non-current controls but the "0" is current and you are depriving us of sales. My response was : ok, we will stop selling upgrades for current controls if you in turn endorse our producs. He refused and that' where the matter ended.
Many years ago a GEFanuc service tech went in a Boeing plant to work on a GEFanuc control, found options turned on the allegedly not paid for and turned them off. Boeing took GEFanuc to court on the basis that nobody has the right to come onto their property and take/do anything without the owner's permission. (you cannot go in your neighbour's house to retrieve something that belongs to you without your neighbour's permission).
Our company has never sold or paid for proprietary information.
We sell hardware.
Whether or not turning on options is illegal is for the courts to decide, not me or you or GEFanuc. It is not a cut and dried issue. There is an argument that foreign control manufacturer who imported the control without an option turned on and subsequently got paid for an option here is owed duty on that option. That may or not be true.
Our lawyer stated that what we do is legal and we go by that opinion.
GEFanuc has the right to charge someone for an unpaid option; you may not have a legal duty to pay (get legal advise).
One more thing: I keep moral and legal views separate. Remember, just because says it's illegal does not make it so; it's illegal if the highest court says so.
I am here to help you all getting the most out of your cnc machine and will do so without charge.
Bil Peiman

[dpuch]

Legally and morally the options are a bit of a gray area. The bottom line for the board is that there is no desire for them to get tangled in any legal issues sue to it and we need to respect that.

Regarding Dan's space saving tips, I have 1 more.
If your text editor supports it, convert the files to unix text file format. IE. carriage return, line feed to just carriage return. Or set your DNC upload to strip it out.
While the control does not use the linefeed character, it seems to take up space on the control anyhow like spaces. Notice how programs with stripped spaced still display with spaces between the commands on most newer controls. But you still get the space savings.

[CNCZILLA]

Yes i am from the south in case anyone didnt catch the ain't. Just thought i would chime in a little. I have been doing this for about 18yrs on cnc's. I just recently left a distributor as a field engineer for one of the major ones. As far as the legal thing goes there is not much they can really do and wouldn't care about the little guy anyway. I am in NC so i deal with Fanuc in Charlotte and they are great guys and will do whatever they can over the phone to a degree depending on who they are talking to and how exp they are. But they are there tomake money like all of us and don't give much away, but if you establish a good relationship most will go a little out of the way if they can and have a certine expertise. As far as the 10 mins away, i understand your frustration but they could be in the same building but if all of the techs are out on calls then that doesn't really matter then does it. I have family members in the judicial system and technically when you purchase the machine, you bought it and everything on it, you just cant turn it on and they won't tell you without money, but it is already yours. Unless they have to come out and install additional things then you already own the machine and whats on it. Basically what this means is even if they did try something it would be so technical and so drawn out that it probably would never see the light of day. By the time they finished they would have lost 10 times as much as the origonal issue. Find friends and connections with good relationships and usually you will get what you want. By the way just so everyone knows, even though there is no more Okuma-Howa and in case you didn't know there is no longer any KGK international either. The new machines are known as the KONAN line because they are made in KONAN Japan. These particullar models are the same as the Howas the just have the standard badging and you cant tell the difference from the standard Okuma. These models are available with the Fanuc or OSP control, your choice so if you dont like Fanuc you can go with OSP. All issues with Okuma or The old Howa machines are now controled by Okuma America in Charlotte. The drawback is they couldn't even spell Fanuc much less work on one. This litteraly occured almost overnight so be patient with them this is a huge transition that got dumped on them without little warning. I helped put together the training for all distributors east of the Mississippi. I have a lot of info and will help anyone as much as i can. This is a great site so we need to stick together and to hell with the big guys.

[Bruce Griffing]

Without getting into the proprietary stuff, I would be interested in what options could be turned on in my 0MC control for my Kitamura Mycenter1. Since I bought the machine second hand, I don't know what options might be available to me. The manual does mention at least one option, a 4th axis, but not much else.

[Al_The_Man]

The 900 options are the proprietary ones.
I will send you a PM to explain.
Al.

[DouglasR]

Opinions are like bellybuttons. Everybody has one.

I have no problem with Fanuc, or any other builder, asking for payment for options to be activated. Fair is fair. Some options require others or additional hardware to work properly. This has to be taken into account as well.

The only beef I have is when an older control needs an option and you get a "sorry we don't do those anymore" response. Then I might be inclined to search out other ways to get what I need. I have not had this problem however.

I have several older Fanuc CNC's on the floor (both System 11's, one a "T" the other an "M"), both have had factory options field installed on them. Both work like a champ.

[memoryman]

Thank you for commenting.
I have a very simple philosophy: I never charge for options and will tell anybody how to enable them. This goes back to the FS3 series. As far as I know, unless you signed an agreement to the contrary, is is perfectly legal to turn options on
(my lawyer agrees). So, if you want options enabled, contact me.

[DouglasR]

Thank you for commenting.
I have a very simple philosophy: I never charge for options and will tell anybody how to enable them. This goes back to the FS3 series. As far as I know, unless you signed an agreement to the contrary, is is perfectly legal to turn options on
(my lawyer agrees). So, if you want options enabled, contact me.

You have a valid point.

[keystone76]

This is ridiculous. Just because some guys aranged a bunch of ones and zeros doesn't give them the right to prevent us from learning and using the codes they write.

Think of it this way. What if General Motors said you could only take your car to a GM service station? And you had to buy their brakes and tires and oil? And they were willing to sue you if you didn't? I know how to change my oil, bleed brakes, rebuild an engine, etc. because I took the time to learn how to do those things. So shouldn't I be able to work on my car. It's the same thing.

It seems to me that once information becomes common knowledge amongst those who took the time to learn it and in turn the public at large that it no longer is proprietory information but rather information in the public domain.

The thing is that now days you don't have to drive down to see uncle Eddie to ask him about the carb on your 1970 Chevelle, you just google it. So if all these companies don't like people learning their information maybe they should sue Al Gore for inventing the internet.

So the next time you learn how work on, operate, or modify your machine in a better way, think of it like working on your Ferrari. After all, you probably could of actually had a Ferrari for what you paid for that machine.