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IndustryArena Forum > Machine Controllers Software and Solutions > Fanuc > GE Fanuc & FANUC proprietary posts
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  1. #41
    Join Date
    May 2008
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    37
    What's next? Magnets sueing programmers for using their copyrighted 1 and 0

  2. #42
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    Aug 2011
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    2517
    Of course it's a bunch of B.S.
    It's called 'a disclaimer'

    Fanuc is to blame for not protecting their I.P.
    However we must respect the requests of the admin(s).

    Anyone who knows is going to play around with it if they want to regardless of what Fanuc does or says or threatens.
    There are a number of people here that when asked will hand out that info for free anyway so this kind of cover up is pointless. Well pointless to those who are in the know. The majority of people don't even know this forum exists.

    Anyway, if someone searches with Google with the right key words he could find almost anything (ahem cough cough)

    Gagging the community (in any field of technology) only forces things to go underground.

    Think of it this way.... it's a bit like those online dating sites. Once the communication is made you don't need the dating site anymore

    oh and for what it's worth you can't copyright or trademark a number (such as 0 or 1) or a word in the dictionary
    there have been court cases that tested this. private owners of several domain names were sued and the company or individual trying to sue lost because the word was a dictionary word. but in almost all cases the person then sold the domain to the company for a huge profit.
    that's also the reason why Intel don't use x86 numbers anymore. No one could stop AMD from using 586/686 etc but Celeron, Pentium, Core 2 Duo etc are trademarks because they are not dictionary words

  3. #43
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
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    1511
    Quote Originally Posted by keystone76 View Post
    This is ridiculous. Just because some guys aranged a bunch of ones and zeros doesn't give them the right to prevent us from learning and using the codes they write.

    Think of it this way. What if General Motors said you could only take your car to a GM service station? And you had to buy their brakes and tires and oil? And they were willing to sue you if you didn't? I know how to change my oil, bleed brakes, rebuild an engine, etc. because I took the time to learn how to do those things. So shouldn't I be able to work on my car. It's the same thing.
    I am not defending Fanuc as I am with Bill's words in the previous post, "I will help you out". However you are not comparing apples to apples with your analogy. We are talking about using a proprietary piece designed by Fanuc. You certainly cannot make a brake system that is proprietary to GM and sell it as a GM brake design. By publicly posting options I believe that is what you are doing and it is against the rules of the forum. Now if you want to design a brake system that is not GM patient and sell it as an addition to your GM car and call it "keystones brake design" then I think you are in the clear. This is an addition like what Bill does with memory on a control. They use nothing of Fanucs proprietary info, options, or hardware. They only use their own design to integrate with Fanuc.

    Believe me I am with you on this as I think once I purchase something, have the title to it and it sits on my personal property I will do anything I so choose with it. However the discussion more relates to the rules of the forum and publicly proclaiming what you are doing with proprietary information.

    The realist way to look at it in our eyes is like receiving a print to quote making/machining the new GM 2012 cutting edge engine. Sure the original designer emailed it to you with a disclaimer and patient, but it is yours. Play with it, redesign it, make adjustments....etc....all yours. Now if you release this design to the public like here in the forum I think that you would be held legally responsible.

    That's my 2cents.

    Stevo

  4. #44
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    Aug 2011
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    2517
    The realist way to look at it in our eyes is like receiving a print to quote making/machining the new GM 2012 cutting edge engine. Sure the original designer emailed it to you with a disclaimer and patient, but it is yours. Play with it, redesign it, make adjustments....etc....all yours. Now if you release this design to the public like here in the forum I think that you would be held legally responsible.
    your example 'receiving a print for a quote' happens in nearly every shop. it is NOT YOURS as you suggest. You can't make any changes nor redesign it. If you were to make the part in the drawing and sell it as your own design you WILL be sued off the planet because there is serious money involved. Patents are put there for protection of information and are usually backed up by muscle and money. I'd like to see a reference to Fanuc's patent on their option system

    Now if some secret parameters get put online because some poor guy lost his parameters due to Fanuc's sh*tty way of storing data held by a 0.50c battery and needs to get his machine running again no money is lost because he had it before.

    If someone enables something on their machine because they see those parameters and want to test it out then also no money is lost because they wouldn't buy it anyway. However after using it for a while they may suggest to the company that they need this option on the machine to do this and that more efficiently and they might pay for it. If the info was never on the net there is no chance of ever paying for it because they did not know it even existed so it can work both ways. Shareware/trialware works the same way.

    Anyway the thread is about not posting that info here because the admins don't want to get involved in legal matters not about playing god with proprietary information.

  5. #45
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    Jun 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by fordav11 View Post
    Anyway the thread is about not posting that info here because the admins don't want to get involved in legal matters not about playing god with proprietary information.
    I agree 100%. That is why I used the example that I did. If I receive a print that is proprietary information from another company it most certainly is “mine” as I suggested…..there is nothing illegal about changing anything on it. I often do it for layout purposes fixturing, machining sections or basic operational drawings. But the minute I post if publicly I am open to legal action.

    Believe me they have patents on their options. No different than Microsoft having patents on their software. Lots of time and money was spent by Fanuc developing the options that are on the control.

    Quote Originally Posted by fordav11 View Post
    If someone enables something on their machine because they see those parameters and want to test it out then also no money is lost because they wouldn't buy it anyway. However after using it for a while they may suggest to the company that they need this option on the machine to do this and that more efficiently and they might pay for it. If the info was never on the net there is no chance of ever paying for it because they did not know it even existed so it can work both ways. Shareware/trialware works the same way.
    I disagree. Money is most defiantly being lost. How many people as a % do you actually think would cut a check for an option that they turned on and started using? My guess….less than 10%. That’s a lot of money.

    I really am with you on this. I see no issue what so ever with helping a guy out whom already had the options installed and no money is lost. I help others that do not have the options as well. I just don’t agree with some of the analogies that it’s just ones and zeros and money and development was not involved in creating these features and that they should be open to everyone. You could say the same thing about computer software….it’s just a bunch of code.

    Stevo

  6. #46
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Posts
    70
    I'll pay for options on my 6MB-II when someone explains to me why 512k of ram (1/3 of a 3.5" floppy disc) from an (aftermarket supplier) is $1500. I am scared to know what 512k ram from Fanuc costs...... But I get it, it's additional hardware that I don't have, so I must buy it. While it's off the charts expensive, I understand it.

    OK to me anything that is already built into the machine I OWN, that isn't enabled, isn't an option. I consider this a setting that isn't turned on. If it's optional, don't include it. Would be like buying a car that has all the A/C parts installed and charged with Freon but you can't use it unless you pay for a code to activate it. That is GOUGING consumers. The company already gave you the parts, now they want more money to enable the usage? Makes no sense to me.

  7. #47
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    Jun 2008
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    262
    What options are you guys talking about? I looked briefly but haven't found any. I have a 3TC and wanted to use a bar puller years ago. Is it something like the M code to open the chuck in the middle of a program?

    Thanks !!!
    i build the braces that keep american teeth straight......tick tick tick

  8. #48
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
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    24216
    Quote Originally Posted by nelZ View Post
    What options are you guys talking about? I looked briefly but haven't found any.
    You haven't found them, because Fanuc hide them or at least include them but do not publish their location, in the 3 they are in the first few parameter words, starting from 0.
    In the 0 etc, they are 900's and in later ones, are in the 9000's.
    These are options that are in the machine, but only ones purchased by the OEM are turned on, i.e. set from 0 to 1.
    For example, Macro A & B could be in a machine, but Fanuc charge to turn the bit on if you want it after-market.
    Al.
    CNC, Mechatronics Integration and Custom Machine Design

    “Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere.”
    Albert E.

  9. #49
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    Jun 2008
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    262
    I was trying to get the chuck to open for a bar pull. I think it was M10 M11 for open and close.

    Is this an option you refer to?

    Thanks AL !!
    i build the braces that keep american teeth straight......tick tick tick

  10. #50
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    Dec 2003
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    24216
    I don't see anything in the parameters, most likely written in as a M code via the PMC?
    I never got into the PMC side for the 3 at all.
    Al.
    CNC, Mechatronics Integration and Custom Machine Design

    “Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere.”
    Albert E.

  11. #51
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    Jun 2008
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    262
    Could you give me a clue as to which side the PMC is? The main Fanuc board interprets the M and sends it somewhere. a big board with lotsa relays most likely

    Thanks for your help!
    i build the braces that keep american teeth straight......tick tick tick

  12. #52
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Posts
    70
    They were not meant to be found.

  13. #53
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
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    24216
    Quote Originally Posted by nelZ View Post
    Could you give me a clue as to which side the PMC is? The main Fanuc board interprets the M and sends it somewhere. a big board with lotsa relays most likely

    Thanks for your help!
    I have never done any PMC work on a 3, only 0 and 9 and up.
    Al.
    CNC, Mechatronics Integration and Custom Machine Design

    “Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere.”
    Albert E.

  14. #54
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    2
    Samsung sells cellular phones with "hot-spot" ability but disables this feature that they advertise. They then require you to pay for a "high-bandwidth" service upgrade in order for you to receive an enable code to activate the feature. All phones have it.
    The courts have decided in favour of the customers in this issue, as well as many other similar cases.
    The courts have stated that the manufacturers cannot include the hardware on every unit they sell and also prevent the buyer from activating the feature on their own. Mostly because all customers are clearly paying for the included hardware/software but all are not being allowed to
    use it.
    If the hardware/software is included with the machine as purchased, then the customer has the legal right to activate and use that feature.
    However, the buyer cannot sell or give away the means to activate that feature,period! That would be a violation of the makers copyrights.

  15. #55
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    1379
    Very interesting.
    I question 'the buyer cannot sell or give away the means to activate that feature,period! That would be a violation of the makers copyrights.' Copyright does not protect information, just the form in which info is communicated. Just because Fanuc does not want to have options enabled, does not mean that it is illegal to do so.

  16. #56
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Posts
    2

    Fanuc 16

    I need help! I have a Mori Seiki Zl15-s with a Ex-1047 alarm/message. I had a battery failure and lost all parameters, reloaded everything via Rs232 and the end result is this Ex-1047. I am told that it is a double parameter issue and I need a password to be able to access and rewrite the 200 -210 "D" parameters. But I do not have the password. Any help?

  17. #57
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    12

    Re: Fanuc 16

    It sounds like you know where these special "D" codes are as you mentioned it in your post. The default Mori passcode is only 76543210 so the key is to re-enter them if you have a list of them somewhere. Perhaps a call to Mori (or the machine dealer) is in order to get the "D" code list at this point. You are not installing new codes, you are simply restoring existing ones here - they should be able to help...

  18. #58
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Posts
    1

    Re: Fanuc 16

    GOOD

  19. #59
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    1379

    Re: GE Fanuc & FANUC proprietary posts

    please place in the general section.

  20. #60

    Re: GE Fanuc & FANUC proprietary posts

    mechine model no and which compny mechine is it send me pic on my mail [email protected]

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