[cncadmin]

It has come to our attention that GE Fanuc and FANUC proprietary and
copyrighted information is being published on a (CNCZone.com).

The specific information relates to software option keys and security
passwords for accessing these software option keys for FANUC CNC
products. Our software, and the option key information, is fully
copyrighted. Additionally, the security passwords are fully protected
by Non-Disclosure Agreements with no right for distribution.

If you have posted anything that pertains to the above REMOVE IT ASAP. See the rules about posting here.

[philserveng]

What an absolutely typical heavy handed response by Fanuc / GE Fanuc.

I have seen no-one post parameter setting information for options. All we do here is to assist people with machine tool problems. Fanuc need to take a hard look at themselves, if we advise a member what this or that alarm means and how to resolve the problem.....good for us.

Fanuc......go away and don't be petty !!!! Haven't heard any other controls company complaining, Fanuc obviously dont know what customer goodwill is.

[fanuservicetech]

Problem with GE Fanuc is GE not Fanuc. Trust me.

[Al_The_Man]

Problem with GE Fanuc is GE not Fanuc. Trust me.

Strange, I thought the latter had bought out the former.

[philserveng]

The point is, Fanuc know these options are turned on all over the place, some deliberately and some by accident. Many options need additional hardware so cannot be used in any case and Fanuc engineers routinely turn off options not paid for. If Fanuc market a CNC control with so little protection for these options, then more fool them.....I have no sympathy for them or their silly dic-tats. Other companies successfully protect their copyrights with serial number lockouts or updates you must pay before getting a disk or a download to activate them, unlike Fanuc who send in a Service Tech to turn on the "secret" 9000 bit. All that said, I work for an OEM and I have the full listing, but I would never pass this info on because it is dishonest.

[Al_The_Man]

= in any case and Fanuc engineers routinely turn off options not paid for. If Fanuc market a CNC control with so little protection for these options, then more fool them....

I don't see how they would even have the right to do that, I assume you own the machine you have paid for, as far as I know, Fanuc do not license the software, but sell the system to OEM's or end users?
Al.

[philserveng]

When I say "routinely" I mean it, because if you call out a Fanuc engineer he will check the Fanuc data base for options that have been purchased against the control serial number. If options have been turned on, not paid for, he will turn them off, this practice is quite legal because they own the software copyright.

(Fanuc can, and will take legal action if they suspect a deliberate on-going fraud, rather like record companies for the counterfeit of music CD's).

However, he will also turn ON any valid options that are not active for any reason, memory corruption etc;.

They also check the warranty period using the control serial number, so they know when the warranty ends.

If you don't believe me.....ask Fanuc.

[guhl]

Hi.
I read these posts and have made sure that live in civilized capitalistic world is "heavy" within certain limits. On vast area of last USSR we don't have these kind of problems with soviet equipment and we're used to utilize unlicensed products. On our computers all of us have AutoCAD, MathCAD, Fotoshop and so on. And I don't wanna to pay for some options like drawing function on 10T. Can someone help me?

[SGARCIAM]

Does anyone have Parameters and Diagnostic For this Machine. Our machine serial is V2152

[memoryman]

I have read the posts with great interests (thanks, Dan Fritz).
Here are my views.
When my company starting to sell memory upgrade kits for the "0" controls, we received a cease and desist letter from GEFanuc's senior legal council. I called him and asked what the issue was. His reply: we have no concern about you supplying memory for non-current controls but the "0" is current and you are depriving us of sales. My response was : ok, we will stop selling upgrades for current controls if you in turn endorse our producs. He refused and that' where the matter ended.
Many years ago a GEFanuc service tech went in a Boeing plant to work on a GEFanuc control, found options turned on the allegedly not paid for and turned them off. Boeing took GEFanuc to court on the basis that nobody has the right to come onto their property and take/do anything without the owner's permission. (you cannot go in your neighbour's house to retrieve something that belongs to you without your neighbour's permission).
Our company has never sold or paid for proprietary information.
We sell hardware.
Whether or not turning on options is illegal is for the courts to decide, not me or you or GEFanuc. It is not a cut and dried issue. There is an argument that foreign control manufacturer who imported the control without an option turned on and subsequently got paid for an option here is owed duty on that option. That may or not be true.
Our lawyer stated that what we do is legal and we go by that opinion.
GEFanuc has the right to charge someone for an unpaid option; you may not have a legal duty to pay (get legal advise).
One more thing: I keep moral and legal views separate. Remember, just because says it's illegal does not make it so; it's illegal if the highest court says so.
I am here to help you all getting the most out of your cnc machine and will do so without charge.
Bil Peiman

[Deltic_Engine]

It is not clear to me if the codes in question are actually copyrighted.
Probably so if they appeared in publications displaying the copyright notice.

As long as GE properly supports any older systems that use the codes,
then I have no problem with such legal-shmegal.

However sometimes if a company stops supporting a particular product
and refuses to supply even the access codes so the users can at least
perform the support themselves on a particular system, then they
would not have much of an ethical leg to stand on and the copyright
could then be effectively 'busted' in court.

Current General Copyright rules (found on the net):

Copyrighted 1964-1977
All books initially copyrighted in the US from 1964 through 1977 have had their copyrights automatically renewed (by law) and the copyrights are still in force. The initial copyright term was 28 years; the renewal was for 67 more years. So a book initially copyrighted in 1964 will pass into the public domain in 1964 + 28 + 67 + 1= 2060.

Copyrighted 1978-
All books initially copyrighted in the US from 1978 to date are still protected by copyright law. The period of copyright protection is governed by complex rules. Generally speaking copyright protection ends 70 years after death of author.

[Al_The_Man]

I think the items in question are, 1/ Option Codes, these are options already in the machine, but were not payed for at purchase time, so they require payment to Fanuc to turn the bit on.
2/PDF manuals sold by Fanuc on CD medium.
3/Offline Development Software.

User parameters, Diagnostic & timer-counter values, and changes to the PMC Ladder are not usually covered.
Fanuc also used to List Service Bulletins on their web site for down-load.
I see they have now stopped this practice and presumably you would have to contact fanuc to obtain these if at all.
Al.

[Dan Fritz]

I think we're arguing about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. Intellectual property rights are generally respected in the US, and I acknowledge the time and effort that Fanuc put into developing the software ... However ....

Any laws that are not enforced are pretty useless. Without enforcment, it just becomes a matter of your own personal concience. It would be wrong to share proprietary information if that act does harm to someone (Fanuc). The question is: If I DIDN'T give the option parameter info to the customer, would he ever turn around and buy the option from Fanuc? Probably not.

Years ago, when I was a Fanuc service engineer for General Numeric, I would frequently be "left in the dark" about option parameters, "secret" diagnostic techniques, etc. Whenever a new model controller came out, the secret information game started all over again. In most cases, I would eventually cross paths with a service engineer from a Japanese or Tiawanese machine tool company, who would just hand us the list of option parameters with the descriptions in Japanese. It usually took about 3 months for the option parameters to be universally known by all the field guys. Even the new encryption algorithms that generate passwords from the control's serial number eventually become public domain information. There are some pretty smart people out there servicing this stuff.

The worst behavior that I've seen is a service engineer actually SELLING the information on the side. That's pretty unforgivable in my book.

[F.Sharifi]

dear sir
with respect to fanuc situation i must added , they must note in this time in net world you can not keep this kind of information as SECRET ! all we do to others just help them to solv problems as very very week after sale service of Fanuc world wide ,.. dont you believe that ? ask customers . always they advise to change Pcbs nothing more and they dont know how customer must be find and haow many time they need to find it ,..

please advice Fanuc to see Siemens and Heidenhain web site they release all technical information for all .

i dont know what can i say ,..it just pitty . fanuc little world to beleive customers .

at last if anyone needs this kind of information please do not hesitate to send request to my private emaile .

[F.Sharifi]

i just remember and keep this way to not send any fanuc ceredit information without knowing exactly related request to machine problems , all we know some of it is very valuable information , and if you dont consider to that , it cause of broken right protect of Fanuc .

its ok , but let me know is there any helpful fanuc web site? is there any information released by fanuc for CNC control system such as very old control up to now ? or important thing can fanuc explain to us for example in OM series after PWE going to 1 we can change all 900 series customers pay for that , and many of it is hardware related , and you can not change the small CNC lathe or Mill machine to APPOLLO 13 !!! says to them dontworry about that , keep the the Hors lish ridding is after that !!

[DouglasR]

Opinions are like bellybuttons. Everybody has one.

I have no problem with Fanuc, or any other builder, asking for payment for options to be activated. Fair is fair. Some options require others or additional hardware to work properly. This has to be taken into account as well.

The only beef I have is when an older control needs an option and you get a "sorry we don't do those anymore" response. Then I might be inclined to search out other ways to get what I need. I have not had this problem however.

I have several older Fanuc CNC's on the floor (both System 11's, one a "T" the other an "M"), both have had factory options field installed on them. Both work like a champ.

[memoryman]

Thank you for commenting.
I have a very simple philosophy: I never charge for options and will tell anybody how to enable them. This goes back to the FS3 series. As far as I know, unless you signed an agreement to the contrary, is is perfectly legal to turn options on
(my lawyer agrees). So, if you want options enabled, contact me.

[DouglasR]

Thank you for commenting.
I have a very simple philosophy: I never charge for options and will tell anybody how to enable them. This goes back to the FS3 series. As far as I know, unless you signed an agreement to the contrary, is is perfectly legal to turn options on
(my lawyer agrees). So, if you want options enabled, contact me.

You have a valid point.

[Amf11]

I need help! I have a Mori Seiki Zl15-s with a Ex-1047 alarm/message. I had a battery failure and lost all parameters, reloaded everything via Rs232 and the end result is this Ex-1047. I am told that it is a double parameter issue and I need a password to be able to access and rewrite the 200 -210 "D" parameters. But I do not have the password. Any help?

[tomgaasenbeek]

It sounds like you know where these special "D" codes are as you mentioned it in your post. The default Mori passcode is only 76543210 so the key is to re-enter them if you have a list of them somewhere. Perhaps a call to Mori (or the machine dealer) is in order to get the "D" code list at this point. You are not installing new codes, you are simply restoring existing ones here - they should be able to help...