[moshe_dol]

hii guys im new here im looking for a machine to make guitar body and nackes what is the most cheap yet good for the job ?

thanks

moshe

[BobF]

Are you looking for a commercial machine, or do you want to build one?

[moshe_dol]

what is more easy and the cheapest its for making guitar as a hobby and im a student so the easy and the cheapest machine wull do the job

[ger21]

Look at the Joe 2006 model. There's a forum for it here. http://www.cnczone.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=346

[mc-motorsports]

cheapest thing to do is outsource the actual cutting unless your ready for production. If you really want to buy a machine, a CNC router would be your best bet. Most inexpensive solution for cutting parts of that size out of wood.

[rlrhett]

There is nothing cheap or easy about CNC. They used to be $60,000 machines that required hours of specialized programming to make them work. It is not that anymore, but compared to other woodworking tools it is still not cheap.

If your interest is in building guitars as a hobby, CNC would be the last tool you would need. Even with a CNC, most of the work is done using traditional power and hand tools. There is virtually nothing a CNC machine can do that you can't do quicker with a hand held router and rasps --unless you are building dozens of identical guitars.

On the other hand, if your interest is in CNC as a hobby, that's a different story. Again, there is nothing cheap about CNC. You have to remember that in addition to the machine, you need software. Buying a machine large enough for guitars will probably set you back $6K+. People seem satisfied with the K2CNC machine that cuts 36X27.

Home built solutions, like the Joe2006 can be significantly cheaper. You will still end up spending $2K+ once you add the cost of software. Joe sells the frame as a kit cut from MDF for about $800. You will spend $400 or so in hardware. Another $400-$500 will go to the motors and controllers. Finally, you have to buy the software. Even with student discounts, once you buy Mach3, CAD and CAM packages you will have spent another $400. For non-students the cost can easily be three times that.

Finally, these machines are relatively large. As a student I certainly never had enough space for a tool the size of a table saw, not to mention that I tended to move once or twice every year.

I don't say all of this to discourage you, it just catches my eye whenever someone asks for "cheap" solutions for CNC (or lutherie for that matter). I've been building guitars for friends and family for several years and think it is the most amazing hobby. No other woodworking project comes close. A guitar (or any musical instrument) not only is beautiful but alive. There is not much you can do with a coffee table, but a guitar...

I also studied design in college and am very comfortable with CAD. I am fascinated with the possibility of converting my CAD designs into a tangible product. Hence I've been lurking on this site for over a year. I even found someone willing to barter a hand made guitar for the hardware and electronics of a home built CNC machine. Even so, I am really worried about the financial outlay to make the machine, not to mention trying to find space for it!

So maybe I'm a hypocrite because I want to use a CNC machine to help me build guitars. However, one sad fact I've had to come to grips with is that there is no cheap way of doing it.

[jonbuho]

HI guys... I'm new in this site, and got here for the same reason that started to read this thread... CNC or CNC? I'm primarily a guitar tech with a good knowledge and experience in building from scratch with hand tools only, in fact is very true about not been cheap at all this CNC thing, but it also open the door to new ideas... So CNC or not to CNC is a big question, but in fact mine right now is build a CNC desktop router or buy one already made? seen this one by PROBOTIX in 600$ which is very cheap indeed compared to the already famous k2CNC in 3.000$ or so... any help? or should i not get in to monkey business and keep on with my hand tools )

[Ed_R]

If you're going to do it for a living, lease a Fadal or a HAAS ( and a location to put it ) and do it right. DOn't forget these machines run on three-phase 220 and suck electricity like air.
If you're doing it for a hobby, you shoudl still get teh best you can afford.

[Dookychase]

Hey rlrhett, did you ever get a carvewright machine? Or did you go with something else?

I too wanted to make archtop guitars(hobby) but got discouraged with all this cnc stuff. I just didn't know where to start.

After looking at liquidguitars stuff, I'm thinking of going with a carvewright and making small archtops like the Ibanez GB10.

dooky

[jonbuho]

Does any body know if the PROBOTIX FIREBALL V90 would be a good choice to start in to CNC? would handle GUITAR JOBS (bodies, necks, contouring, radius. etc) I'm owner of a small shop, and my concerning is not speed but accurate results and reliability. Thanks!

[Torchhead]

The Probotix V90 is only 12 X 18 X 3. (304mm X 457mm X 76mm). It's also just a basic mechanics kit. Clipped from the website:

The base kit is supplied as a mechanical machine kit only. No motors, electronics, spindle or software is included. The waiting list is sitting at about two weeks right now, but has been growing. The sooner you reserve yours, the sooner we can ship it.


So once you get it assembled you will need:

3 motors
3 axis motor control card
Power supply
Wiring/cables
Couplings
Control Software (MACH?)
PC
Powered/Isolated Breakout card between PC and Motor Driver
Relay card
Limit/Home switches
Panel switches
Router
Router holder
Router bits
Sturdy table

In addition you need a good CAM program and some Drawing software.

It's better to run the PC on the machine as a dedicated unit and do your drawing and CAM work on another PC.

As stated by others there is a big gap between a toy and a machine that can hold .025mm of accuracy. Your final accuracy in any machine is a sum of all the errors in the mechanics and Linear drive components.

TOM CAUDLE
www.CandCNC.com

[Dookychase]

The Fireball 90 would be too small to do guitars. It only cuts 12" wide and 18" long.
I don't know anything about drawing in any of the software programs, unless you would cut the guitar by sections, having to move the piece that you're cutting.

Again I don't know if that's possible since I know nothing about cnc programming.

It does look like a nice cnc kit. I emailed them to see if they were going to make a larger version and as of yet there are no plans to do that right now.

[jonbuho]

Thank you all... Yes i thought it is too toyish for my needs... so any suggestion for a decent price table top machine that can give me this reliability that I'm looking for? as said many times my aim is not produce 10000000 pieces, but to recreate my ideas in less time... any idea anyone?

[rlrhett]

Hey rlrhett, did you ever get a carvewright machine? Or did you go with something else?

I too wanted to make archtop guitars(hobby) but got discouraged with all this cnc stuff. I just didn't know where to start.

After looking at liquidguitars stuff, I'm thinking of going with a carvewright and making small archtops like the Ibanez GB10.

dooky

I am very impressed with liquidguitars, but I decided the Carvewrigt was not for me. First, it can only cut objects 14" inches wide. That would exclude all but the smallest archtop and acoustic guitars. Second, Carvewright uses only it's proprietary software. I found the software way too limiting for anything I wanted to do. It is really not intended as a CAD program where specific parameters are important. In a solid body electric that may not matter, but if you are building an acoustic archtop you need to be able to exactly program the arch. Finally, even though liquidguitars has had no problems, if you visit the Carvewright forum you can see that MANY users have had serious and vexing problems with the reliability of the machine.

jonbuho:

I am still under the impression that for a pro machine sized right for guitar making the most positive response I have heard is for the K2CNC KG-3925-G machine. Otherwise, the do-it-yourself kits seem to range from Rockliff for the cheapest and easiest to build, Solsylva for a larger machine made with every day tools, Joe2006 for a great and sizable pre-cut kit, or Mechmate for a large steel frame machine.

[LiquidGuitars]

Bigger guitars bodys can be cut one side at a time getting over 28" wide if need be!

It is really not intended as a CAD program where specific parameters are important. In a solid body electric that may not matter, but if you are building an acoustic archtop you need to be able to exactly program the arch.

Well, glad no one told me this 2 years ago


Regrading 3D tops and the carvewright.. tops and back carves are spot on and clean, it could carve a paper thin archtop if needed.


The max cut is 14.90" wide not 14" the 1" depth could be a issue but you can program the top and back and just flip it.

Here is a photo of my telecaster guitar I made on the Carveright.

[Dookychase]

So, instead of programming the arch, I could use the probe to scan an existing top. Scan the top arch and then the inside.

If I stick with a small archtop in the 14 to 14.5" wide at the lower bout, it could be carved from a board 15" wide leaving enough on the sides as rails to hold the piece in place and not needing a carriage.

Am I right liquidguitars?

[LiquidGuitars]

Max size 14.90" -1.00 for sled gives around 13.90"

Once you make a few prototypes you can scale up the project and split the carving in two. make jumbos top and backs. :rainfro:

LG

[bitbanger]

Moshe,

Make no mistake, the FireBall V90 is no TOY! Don't be discouraged by all the old farts who hand around here and try to talk you out of taking the CNC plunge. :nono: There is no such thing as needing .025mm accuracy when working with wood. Natural expansion and contraction is more than that!

Admittedly, the metal machines can do more than the wood machines, but the cost difference may not be justified if you are never going to use your machine for metal, or if you are new to CNC and unsure whether or not you will even be able to grasp the software.

The V90 would carve through-neck style or two-piece laminated bodies with no problem. Dookychase was correct to mention the 12" limitation of the V90, because most of the double-cutaway style guitar designs are around 14" at their widest part.

If you can work with the two piece bodies, buy a V90. If not, join the V90 Yahoo group and stay tuned for the upcoming larger, solid-body capable machine due to be released next month.



>Len
www.probotix.com

[Ed_R]

It's been my experience that the machine isn't as important as the code, as long as the machine has enough cut envelope and is accurate and can move bits fast enough through material at the right rpm, any machine will do. The Carvewright seems to work pretty well considering the split-tops and even with the 1-inch z depth. The big issue there would be neck joints and neck heels.

[rlrhett]

Moshe,

Make no mistake, the FireBall V90 is no TOY! Don't be discouraged by all the old farts who hand around here and try to talk you out of taking the CNC plunge. :nono: There is no such thing as needing .025mm accuracy when working with wood. Natural expansion and contraction is more than that!

Admittedly, the metal machines can do more than the wood machines, but the cost difference may not be justified if you are never going to use your machine for metal, or if you are new to CNC and unsure whether or not you will even be able to grasp the software.

The V90 would carve through-neck style or two-piece laminated bodies with no problem. Dookychase was correct to mention the 12" limitation of the V90, because most of the double-cutaway style guitar designs are around 14" at their widest part.

If you can work with the two piece bodies, buy a V90. If not, join the V90 Yahoo group and stay tuned for the upcoming larger, solid-body capable machine due to be released next month.



>Len
www.probotix.com

Len, if you are making a machine large enough for guitars I hope you don't make the mistake of thinking that 14" is as wide as guitars get. Archtop and Semi-hollow guitars are usually 17" or even 18". As far as working the tops in two halves, at their center they are usually only 3/16" thick and curved. Joining an already carved top without a visible seam and perfectly lined up will be a real challenge. How would you clamp them? I assume you could build a very elaborate series of cauls, but this is why the K2CNC machine is 24" wide. It can handle all guitars, not just PRS knockoffs.

If you want to make a machine targeted at luthiers, I would recommend that you make it at least 18" wide as has been said a number of times in this post already.

Thanks, and good luck!