[isaac338]

Great site, I've spent the last few weeks lurking and reading and I can't get enough

I'm interested in buying a mini-mill to learn about machining and eventually CNC. I plan on making small parts for my dirt bike or truck, whatever needs to be done - nothing for sale or scale models or any of the cooler stuff you guys seem to be doing. It's purely for my own interest

Stuff like rotor guards for a dirt bike, or mounting brackets for various projects. Nothing huge. I was pretty set on the X2, but thinking more about it I'm worried about the table size. 4x7 travel is pretty small - does this mean the realistic max size of the workpiece should be under 4" by 7"?

Money is obviously an issue - I'm in Canada and I'll end up driving to the US to pick up an X2 at Harbor Freight because even with gas money I'll still save three or four hundred bucks over the sale price here at Princess Auto. With the savings I'll have money for tooling and a clamping kit and that sort of thing. Also, the X2 box will fit in my Civic so I'll save gas money. With the X3, not only is it several hundred dollars more than the X2, but I'll have to drive my truck to pick it up, which will easily double my gas costs.

So the question is - has anyone here ever bought an X2 and just found it way too small for most stuff? I'd hate to buy an X2 and never use it (or get frustrated with it) because it's too small, but I'd also hate to buy an X3 and not use it because I can't afford tooling

Does anyone know if Harbor Freight lets you use the 20% off coupons on online orders? The drive to the nearest HF store is about 13 hours, but Yellow Transport has a depot only 5 hours away, so it's clearly easier to order online and have it shipped to the depot.

Sorry for the essay, and thanks for any advice you might have.

[hoss2006]

It doesn't matter what mill you buy, you'll eventually want to put something on it that exceeds it's travels.
Of course the bigger you buy, the chances of that are rarer.
4x7 IS small but as with any mill, you can mill the part in sections.
I milled a 22 inch long column on the stock X2, just had to do it in 3 setups.
The CNC mill at work has 42 inches of travel but some parts exceed that and have
to be flipped around to do the other side.
It's just a matter of how much work you want to do setting up,
do 2 setups on the X2 or maybe just one on an X3 for a given project.
Hoss

[isaac338]

It doesn't matter what mill you buy, you'll eventually want to put something on it that exceeds it's travels.
Of course the bigger you buy, the chances of that are rarer.
4x7 IS small but as with any mill, you can mill the part in sections.
I milled a 22 inch long column on the stock X2, just had to do it in 3 setups.
The CNC mill at work has 42 inches of travel but some parts exceed that and have
to be flipped around to do the other side.
It's just a matter of how much work you want to do setting up,
do 2 setups on the X2 or maybe just one on an X3 for a given project.
Hoss

Good point - I hadn't considered just doing a part in sections. Seems like it's that much easier to get the X2 and then I'll have money left over for tooling and steppers

Just noticed the Cummins Tool version for $399.. at that price I could buy both the lathe and the mill and come out ahead

[Stepper Monkey]

The advice oft-repeated on here - to buy a bigger mill and not be limited later - is a good one in your case, doubly so here since it looks like you know you would be limited from the very beginning. The difference in cost just isn't that much in the end, for a much more capable machine.
Just a thought - you may see a lot more threads here about X2's on here than X3's, even though I suspect the X3 is the more common machine amongst us. X3 owners just don't tend to do a great many mods, as they don't really find the need to - they are generally pretty happy with their machines. There are a lot of threads on X2 mods to extend their capabilities, however, simply because almost from the beginning people are running into their limitations. Then you spend a lot of unnecessary time and money trying to extend those capabilities to be somewhat closer to, well, an X3.

Far easier and far cheaper in the end to go with a mill of the size of the workpieces you already know you'll need. You don't need much tooling at all to get started, you can do an amazing amount with under a hundred bucks worth to start. You have a bit of learning curve to get used to anyway before you need to get into the fancy stuff.
A good tool selection is best built piecemeal over time. A good mill isn't.

[isaac338]

The advice oft-repeated on here - to buy a bigger mill and not be limited later - is a good one in your case, doubly so here since it looks like you know you would be limited from the very beginning. The difference in cost just isn't that much in the end, for a much more capable machine.
Just a thought - you may see a lot more threads here about X2's on here than X3's, even though I suspect the X3 is the more common machine amongst us. X3 owners just don't tend to do a great many mods, as they don't really find the need to - they are generally pretty happy with their machines. There are a lot of threads on X2 mods to extend their capabilities, however, simply because almost from the beginning people are running into their limitations. Then you spend a lot of unnecessary time and money trying to extend those capabilities to be somewhat closer to, well, an X3.

Far easier and far cheaper in the end to go with a mill of the size of the workpieces you already know you'll need. You don't need much tooling at all to get started, you can do an amazing amount with under a hundred bucks worth to start. You have a bit of learning curve to get used to anyway before you need to get into the fancy stuff.
A good tool selection is best built piecemeal over time. A good mill isn't.

This is what threw me into this loop anyways - it seems like a waste to buy a machine knowing I'll be fighting it from day 1.

The grizzly X3 is just over a grand with shipping to a depot in Maine. I'll just have to put some real small tires on my truck and make the trek, I guess. Anyone think an X3 box could fit into a Civic?

[The Blight]

I don't regret buying an X2, because I don't have more space, but I would like to have bigger machine. So if you have the money, go with the X3.

[JustSomeGuy]

Great site, I've spent the last few weeks lurking and reading and I can't get enough

Money is obviously an issue - I'm in Canada and I'll end up driving to the US to pick up an X2 at Harbor Freight because even with gas money I'll still save three or four hundred bucks over the sale price here at Princess Auto. With the savings I'll have money for tooling and a clamping kit and that sort of thing. Also, the X2 box will fit in my Civic so I'll save gas money. With the X3, not only is it several hundred dollars more than the X2, but I'll have to drive my truck to pick it up, which will easily double my gas costs.

So the question is - has anyone here ever bought an X2 and just found it way too small for most stuff? I'd hate to buy an X2 and never use it (or get frustrated with it) because it's too small, but I'd also hate to buy an X3 and not use it because I can't afford tooling

Does anyone know if Harbor Freight lets you use the 20% off coupons on online orders? The drive to the nearest HF store is about 13 hours, but Yellow Transport has a depot only 5 hours away, so it's clearly easier to order online and have it shipped to the depot.

Sorry for the essay, and thanks for any advice you might have.

Hiya Isaac338,

I was in the same boat. I was looking at buying a unit from HF and then bringing it back. In my case, the drive is only 2 or 3 hours each way. I even went as far as to email CBSA to check if the tariff code was correct.
After looking at the whole thing, I decided to pick up an X2 at Princess House this week for $799. The reason is that HF had the X2 listed at about $550. Then I figure I would need a whole day to go down and then get back through Customs. I would need to do this on a weekday to avoid the heavy traffic across the border on the weekend so that means a day off work. Then I would need to factor in GST and PST and Tariff and the price of gas.
Once I worked it all out, I found that I could still save some money but not as much as I thought. One other thing to consider is the warranty. Princess Auto may sell a lot of crap but they are very, very good about returns and warranty.
Just two other things I would like to add if you decide to go for a drive.
1) Make sure you contact the HF you intend to buy from first to make sure they have one on hand. I understand that they normally need to special order now.
2) check the tariff code beforehand. I looked on the CBSA site and found tariff code 84.59.10.00.

Best of luck.

[isaac338]

Hiya Isaac338,

I was in the same boat. I was looking at buying a unit from HF and then bringing it back. In my case, the drive is only 2 or 3 hours each way. I even went as far as to email CBSA to check if the tariff code was correct.
After looking at the whole thing, I decided to pick up an X2 at Princess House this week for $799. The reason is that HF had the X2 listed at about $550. Then I figure I would need a whole day to go down and then get back through Customs. I would need to do this on a weekday to avoid the heavy traffic across the border on the weekend so that means a day off work. Then I would need to factor in GST and PST and Tariff and the price of gas.
Once I worked it all out, I found that I could still save some money but not as much as I thought. One other thing to consider is the warranty. Princess Auto may sell a lot of crap but they are very, very good about returns and warranty.
Just two other things I would like to add if you decide to go for a drive.
1) Make sure you contact the HF you intend to buy from first to make sure they have one on hand. I understand that they normally need to special order now.
2) check the tariff code beforehand. I looked on the CBSA site and found tariff code 84.59.10.00.

Best of luck.

I hadn't thought about the tariff - I figured I'd only pay 5% GST. I guess I'd have to pay the 7% NS PST too (********!). What did you calculate your import duties as being?

I was also tempted to go to Princess Auto and ask if they'd be willing to knock a bit off the price - show them the HF price and explain that I want to drive down there but I'd like to support them instead. I buy plenty of crap there so it may be worth a shot.. if only they sold the X3!

[hoss2006]

Don't know how far the store is from you but ataxy recommended this mill from
Busy Bee Tools in Canada in another thread.
It has an 11 x 7 work area so it's in between an X2 and X3.
Looks like it's on sale till May too
Hoss

[JustSomeGuy]

I hadn't thought about the tariff - I figured I'd only pay 5% GST. I guess I'd have to pay the 7% NS PST too (********!). What did you calculate your import duties as being?

I was also tempted to go to Princess Auto and ask if they'd be willing to knock a bit off the price - show them the HF price and explain that I want to drive down there but I'd like to support them instead. I buy plenty of crap there so it may be worth a shot.. if only they sold the X3!

The tariff code I listed is rated as 0% tariff on the CBSA website. I was very hopeful but just to make sure, I emailed CBSA to check if that was the correct one. I even lncluded a link to the X2 on the HF website. They emailed back saying that the information on tariff codes are on the CBSA website (I knew that because that is where I found the code in the first place). I guess that is our tax dollars at "work". The documet is at http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/trade-com...9/ch84-eng.pdf and the listing for 84.59.10.00 is on page 97.
I have heard stories of people that do the homework and then when they get to the border, the CBSA people say that is not the right code and then charge them some other rate (one guy I spoke to mentioned 16%). I think it all depends on if you get someone who is all gungho about collecting the maximum tax or someone who is just too lazy and will take your word on it.
I personally like Princess Auto because the people there seem to want to be helpful and I know that if anything were to go wrong, they would have no problem making it right.
The thing that got my attention is the 13 hour drive each way. I know the Civic is very good on gas but 26 hours...
In Toronto, we are paying about 1.14 / L. How much for you?

[JustSomeGuy]

Don't know how far the store is from you but ataxy recommended this mill from
Busy Bee Tools in Canada in another thread.
It has an 11 x 7 work area so it's in between an X2 and X3.
Looks like it's on sale till May too
Hoss

I was looking at that machine as well. I went to Busy Bee and they did not have any in stock. The guys there said that all of the last batch was sold before they actually arrived in Canada. The next batch is due by end of May.
I too have read that it is between the X2 and the X3 but I have also heard that the capability and size is closer to the X3 then the X2.

[isaac338]

Hoss, I've looked at that mill before - I dig the DRO and it looks like a good machine. There's a store only a few minutes from my house but they didn't have any on display, maybe I'll call and see when they'll have some in stock and I'll have a better look. Worried about the MT2 spindle, though - from what I've read I think I'd rather have an R8.

JustSomeGuy, we're paying about a buck twenty for gas here (i think it's like 120.7 or something). The 13 hour drive is to the HF store - I'd have them ship it to the Yellow Transport depot in Calais, which is only about 5 hours from here. We'd drive down, pick the machine up, camp for the night somewhere, and then drive back the next day. May as well make a vacation out of it Maybe I'd fill a few 20L cans in Maine where gas is like eighty cents

At the border, I'd be tempted to put the mill in the trunk and then buy a pair of pants or something as an excuse for only being stateside for a night.

I'm still torn as to whether to get the X2 or X3.. doesn't help that I have absolutely no experience, ya know? I'll only have about $1200 to spend after this summer job comes through, so it's gonna hurt dropping the whole wad at once, especially since once I'm back in school I probably won't have much money lying around for tooling and the like.

Thanks for the advice, guys.

[JustSomeGuy]

Hoss, I've looked at that mill before - I dig the DRO and it looks like a good machine. There's a store only a few minutes from my house but they didn't have any on display, maybe I'll call and see when they'll have some in stock and I'll have a better look. Worried about the MT2 spindle, though - from what I've read I think I'd rather have an R8.

JustSomeGuy, we're paying about a buck twenty for gas here (i think it's like 120.7 or something). The 13 hour drive is to the HF store - I'd have them ship it to the Yellow Transport depot in Calais, which is only about 5 hours from here. We'd drive down, pick the machine up, camp for the night somewhere, and then drive back the next day. May as well make a vacation out of it Maybe I'd fill a few 20L cans in Maine where gas is like eighty cents

At the border, I'd be tempted to put the mill in the trunk and then buy a pair of pants or something as an excuse for only being stateside for a night.

I'm still torn as to whether to get the X2 or X3.. doesn't help that I have absolutely no experience, ya know? I'll only have about $1200 to spend after this summer job comes through, so it's gonna hurt dropping the whole wad at once, especially since once I'm back in school I probably won't have much money lying around for tooling and the like.

Thanks for the advice, guys.

Issac338,

Let me drop another thing into the mix.
Check past history on Kijiji, Craigs List and eBay for mills in your area. If you go with the X2 and sometime in the future you decide that you absolutely need a bigger mill, I'll bet you could sell the X2 for a fair portion of what you paid for it.
Lets say that you get the X2 from HF for $550 and, all in, it comes to $750 by the time its set up on your workbench. If you take real good care of it and next year, you list it for sale, you can show a link to Princess Auto that has it regularly for $999. It's not as if half the guys on the East coast are trying to sell a benchtop mill. I was looking to get one used for three months. The only X2 or X3 that I saw listed was on Craigs List and was sold by the time I called 4 hours after posting.

BTW, I see that you live in Halifax. I've been there and just have to say, anybody who has never seen the east coast of Canada, is missing one of the prettiest places in the world...

[isaac338]

I've kept an eye on Kijiji for a while, the only things that come up there are big $10k+ mills or $2-3000 knee mills from Busy Bee. They're too expensive and the only affordable ones are round column. Good point, I probably could sell it pretty quick.

Back to the original plan I go

[JustSomeGuy]

I've kept an eye on Kijiji for a while, the only things that come up there are big $10k+ mills or $2-3000 knee mills from Busy Bee. They're too expensive and the only affordable ones are round column. Good point, I probably could sell it pretty quick.

Back to the original plan I go

I envy you. Driving that side of the country is just a pleasure. When i got mine this week, it was a 20 minute drive down highway 401. Not much in the way of scenery. Good luck and you might want to print out that Tariff sheet and take that with you. Who knows, it might help get you 0% tariff. If it helps, think kindly of us in Toronto. We ain't all bad.

[cyclestart]

Back to the original plan I go

And the original plan is an X2 from Harbour Freight?

Can't resist throwing a cent and a half. My X2 came from Princess. At times they have advertised it as R8 spindle. Any I have seen are in reality MT3. The leadscrews are 16 tpi which is a bit awkward. Maybe only MicroMark have 20 tpi? Not sure on that part.

If your eventual plan is cnc, an X3 costs little (if any) more to convert. The small table of the X2 can hamper clamping some parts. Maybe the table size of an X3 isn't a big improvement? I constantly wish for more table.

Overall I regret not importing an X3, or possibly cnc ready machine. That's not to say an X2 will not fit the bill. It's a suprisingly capable little machine.

[cyclestart]

We ain't all bad.

Except for that gawd awful hockey team many of you seem so fond of. Just kidding. Honestly.

[JustSomeGuy]

Except for that gawd awful hockey team many of you seem so fond of. Just kidding. Honestly.

Honestly, I don't like the Leafs. I used to sign some of my emails "Leafs Suck!" but then I thought about it and realized that those two words are redundant...


Good point about the R8 vs MT3 spindle though. If Issac338 wants to go bigger, there might be an issue with any tools he buys now.
I just feel it might not be a good idea to shoot so much of the budget on the mill that he may not have enough to get the tooling he'll need.
In my case, I chose the X2 in part because it is small. I have limited space and the bonus is that I could say to my wife "Don't worry honey, it wasn't very expensive... Look how small it is...".