[dniemela]

The shop i work for is looking into getting a hurco 5 axis machine. i do not know hardly anything about hurco...what are the positives and negatives about them?

[Jeremy A Flores]

VMR42SR or VTXU?

[glovebox20]

Hello

I do not know much about the 5-axis machines from Hurco, but I am quite fimilar with the HTX 500 and the VMX's. All I'll say about Hurco Machines their great for simple, quick setups with there abilty to program the machine "on the shop floor". But if you have complex setups, or lot of surfacing to do, You might still find out you would rather have a CAM system (gibbs,masterX,ect) for the complex stuff and run the machine in G-code. Hurco machines are not the fastest or the most accurate machine on the market, but they do offer a lot of bang for the buck with good customer support. If your going to do a lot of G-code programing though, I would still prefer a machine with a G&M code controler cause it would be simpler to use and industury has proven the code out quite well.

glovebox20

[Motherlode97]

First consider your requirements. Do you need 5 axis positioning then 3 axis motion or do you need real 5 axis tool motion. Hurco machines are fine for most 3-axis stuff but 5 axis I would look elsewhere.

ML97

[Jeremy A Flores]

I disagree. When programmed offline the hurco will run industry standard (G&M) programming just as well as any machine. Cotroller takes a little getting used too but what doesn't.

[millmonkey1]

Hurco lathes are junk. The mills did not impress me a whole lot more. Do yourself a favor and buy a Haas or Mazak or such.

[Motherlode97]

Hurco machines can run Industry Standard G codes (Optional) that is true. The question posted was regarding 5 axis applications. They have neither the experience nor expertise in that field. IMAO

ML97

[glovebox20]

Hurco machines can run Industry Standard G codes (Optional) that is true. The question posted was regarding 5 axis applications. They have neither the experience nor expertise in that field. IMAO

ML97

First consider your requirements. Do you need 5 axis positioning then 3 axis motion or do you need real 5 axis tool motion. Hurco machines are fine for most 3-axis stuff but 5 axis I would look elsewhere.

ML97

I strongly agree with ML97. Hurco may have one of the best mills for 3-axis protype or short production runs, but they also severly lack the experiece in the horizantal and 5-axis areas. The biggest problem I have face with Hurco is when It come to the HTX 500. I can ask the Tec poeple question on how to set the machine up, but they can't relly give me the answers I'm looking for. It wouldn't be so bad, but I can go on the internet and find just as much or or info. horizantal maching then what they could give me. Exspecialy on the G-code part. The biggest downfall with conversanial programing is you do not have standard work offsets (G54-G59) like you would in a G-code type program. So you need serveral part set up blocks to make up for this and if a vise moves half way throgh your run, you may have to change 5 or more part set up blocks (more or less depending on your set up) to change this witch is a big pain and clumzy Vs. a G-code program where all you have to update is the G54 offset. I know, I've been there and done that. Somedays, I wish my shop would of went with a HAAS machine instead. Or maybe something better like a A51 Maknio. But thats $$$, but they are relly sweet machines.

I also feel a Fanuc or other G&M code controls also runs smoother on G-code programs but maybe the new WinMax controls is different. I could try to explain the difference to you, but it would be easier if you could see the machines run so you can judge for ourself.

If you like the price of the Hurco's and don't mind that your not getting the biggest badest machine out there, you may find out the Hurco will work for you just fine.

glovebox20

[Motherlode97]

Well stated glovebox20. If you really do your research you'll find that Hurco systems use a software PLC as opposed to a hardware PLC meaning that one mpu is in charge of all real time events. This and fact that Hurco systems do not nor have they ever (to the best of knowledge) ever used G codes as it's native navigational system (meaning even though they offer industry standard G codes the system must convert the G codes to the conversational native navigational commands.)
Now if I was a 5 axis machine I'd spend a lot of time waiting around for all the above to happen. Almost all builders base their machines' nav system on four G-codes passed on to a hardware PLC (newbies pay attention here as if you get this part your interest in CNC will get a lot simpler):

CNC machines do one (1) uno thing which is go from this point to the next.


These are the four codes used:

G00 x1 y1 Go to this point as fast as you can (doesn't matter how)

G01 x1 y1 F10 Go to this point in a straight line at F10

G02 x1 y1 I0 J1 F10 Go to this point by way of a CW arc of 1 ending at x1 y1 at F10

G03 x1 y1 I0 J1 F10 Go to this point by way of a CCW arc of 1 ending at x1 y1 at F10




That's it.

Just about any tool motion your machine can do can be done with the above codes. You can also use Z, A & B, C and U and on and on.
Almost all the rest of the G codes are made up from the above 4.
How fast your control can read, interpret then accurately interpolate the movements defines a good quality machine from ......
Enough said I hope.

ML

[glovebox20]

Hello dniemela

Has your shop decied on the machine to buy? Did our advice help your shop in your purchased? I'm sure the people on the forum would like to hear.

Thanks

Jeff Schueller

[Geof]

Motherlode97; I like your explanation, it show how simple CNC is in fundamental terms, but you forgot Incremental. The 'go from here this distance...' part.

[68sixspeed]

If it helps I've purchased a VM2 and a VM1 in the last 13 months and love them, getting ready to buy another VM2; we run them conversational w/dxf files on the easy parts and with Featurecam on the more complex parts.

[PROTOTRAKFAN]

Ok Here is my two cents,
Accuracy: two months ago I machined a 8 Inch diameter boss with a VM1 (one year old). Afterwords I put a .0005 indicator on the spindle of another machine at my freinds shop to check the "runout". Guess what? There was NO runout - I have NEVER seen this kind of accuracy not from a Monarch a KItamurra - nothing!!! NOBODY can ever tell me these machines arent accuarate - B.S. !!!
Secondly on the conversational side there is an UNLIMITED amount of work offsets - no limit. The conversational side is without equal when using subroutines - I am very impressed.
I am a OneCnc user and the VM1 runs G code perfectly - no issues. I dont have the ISNC option because I think it is not needed - you just have to get used to the Bridgeport "boss" type of incremental drill/tap canned cycles. The basic Hurco control runs Gcode just fine and has quite a few nice features to help an operator. I dont know about 4 or, 5 axis milling because I dont do it but, I do know this: trunnion type machines are much more rugged BUT, they have ALOT of tool interferance problems and are going to require long extensions and special tooling which will cost buku dollars and wont be very ridgid.
I dont know who to give credit - Hurco or, OneCnc but, I did some mold work on it last year going 200ipm and they came out pristine!!
The conversational side is great for simple parts but, as with all conversational machines, the programs generally take longer to execute and will kill you on a production job. I really like machines that can do both really well and the Hurco seems to fit that description.
It is NOT as rugged as a boxed way machine and I will readily admit that to you. It is great for high speed machining teqniques though.
By the way on the Gcode side it has the industry standard - fixture offsets G54-G59 and it is very easy to set up......
Patrick

[Motherlode97]

Your two cents is well stated and you've nailed it bud. That's what the Hurco machines are all about. Absolute finest machines available for prototype-short run jobs. If you need fast production there's lots of fast guys in the neighborhood.

ML

[68sixspeed]

Well, we've always used the conversational but recently started feeding a VM1 and VM2 g-code 2-1/2d stuff and 3d surfacing out of featurecam- not a glitch, 13000+ lines of code just on a small ball milled feature with very small stepovers and it didn't have a problem, so I would have thought if there was a conversion/speed glitch on their g-code, that would have shown it. Also we regularly mill bearing bores within .0001" tir with these machines. top notch equipment for the price.

[Tumbleweed Tim]

I like my VMX24. Use Surfcam and have run 12 hour programs for days unattended. Made me nervous at first but I got used to it and the machine never did anything weird while I was gone and it did like 8 tool changes. I come in the next day and part was done, machine would be in sleep mode, load another block and leave.
Machine is very accurate and trouble free. One limit switch was sticky for awhile at first and gave an error on calibration, but Hurco fixed it lickety split. Since then all I have done was install Ultinet (cool thing) but the machine is the HT model and only option is the ISNC, but near as I can tell basic would be just fine. Does anything any other control does, but being PC based takes a little getting used to.

[aero_db]

It all depends on what you're looking to do with this machine. Cutting wood and plastic, it's probably fine. Machining real (precision) work in real materials like titanium, inco, waspalloy .... don't even think about it.

I looked at their machines as we were in the market for a full contouring 5-axis and when it came down to it, their base price of 179k was completely BARE-BONES! On top of that, their positioning accuracy on the rotary and tilt axes is something like 14 arc seconds... so they required the purchase of glass scales to bring it in closer to +/-5 ...WTF??? That kind of accuracy is less than sub-par when doing precision work.

In the end, we went with a fully equipped (tool & spindle probing, high-pressure coolant, countless FANUC options, extended tool magazine, etc.) OKK which after some tough negotiations, came out to about 15k more than the inferior HURCO. *NOTE: GLASS SCALES NOT REQUIRED as rotary/tilt accuracy is +/-3 arc seconds straight from factory.

Keep shopping and look at the Mazak VariAxis as well, I know that they are quite willing to negotiate. It's not an OKK but it sure beats a HURCO!

[Motherlode97]

The Hurco machines are killers in their niche. Their accuracy is top notch (again in their niche). More than 2 1/2 axis requires a builder with experience and OKK has been a player before Hurco ever figured out G-codes. Yes a bit more expensive but made in Japan not Taiwan.

ML

[Tumbleweed Tim]

"More than 2 1/2 axis requires a builder with experience and OKK has been a player before Hurco ever figured out G-codes."

Say what?

[Motherlode97]

Forgive me. I should have added IMO.(nuts)

ML