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  1. #821
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    533

    Re: DIY- CNC Embroidery Machine

    I'm not clear what a minimalist machine should have for features. It could be any old working sewing machine one could find. The needle position control would need to be adapted for whatever model one uses. Is it practical to provide a "universal" design that fits any used sewing machine?
    I didn't finish dabbling with my homemade motor controller and encoder for the needle position detection stuff. So more fundamental work would be required to make my Kenmore_6 work.

  2. #822
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    22

    Re: DIY- CNC Embroidery Machine

    OK folks....I'm going on travel to the Middle East for 3 days and upon returning will make my first contribution by experimenting with an automatic thread cutter. I have a plethora of "ice cube" relays, a box of razor blades, and a bunch of polystyrene tubing. I'm going to see if I can hack my own thread cutter that will be driven by 12vdc or 24vdc. Should be possible to "glue" or use that double sided 3M sticky tape for wall hangers to attach. Will report back the results. The v-groove rubber roller that has some striped for an optical sensor should be a no brainer and I'll focus on the thread cutter then allow my wife to do an optest on it with a vintage machine. Best regards, Mike

  3. #823
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    3498

    Re: DIY- CNC Embroidery Machine

    Hi guys,The video shows how a low cost brushed DC motor can be converted into closed loop servo system. I 3d printed out a simple encoder wheel with very less resolution 16PPR (Pulse Per Revolution) in quadrature mode. Used two optocoupler with LM393 comparators for the two channels. This motor can take steps in 22.5 degree. This whole project took many months in bits and pieces to reach at this point. The video shows the tuning process for individual PID (Proportional Integral Derivative) values.
    Overall it was a fun project to understand how closed loop expensive servos work.
    http://free3dscans.blogspot.com/ http://my-woodcarving.blogspot.com/
    http://my-diysolarwind.blogspot.com/

  4. #824
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    533

    Re: DIY- CNC Embroidery Machine

    Good work khalid.
    Is this motor controller for the needle position control?
    With a low-res encoder like yours, it will be easy to replicate.

    Do you have an idea as to what minimum encoder PPR we need to approximate needle position? I fail to see the need for, say, a 1000PPR encoder if a 20 PPR would do.

  5. #825
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    3498

    Re: DIY- CNC Embroidery Machine

    Quote Originally Posted by KOC62 View Post
    Good work khalid.
    Is this motor controller for the needle position control?
    With a low-res encoder like yours, it will be easy to replicate.

    Do you have an idea as to what minimum encoder PPR we need to approximate needle position? I fail to see the need for, say, a 1000PPR encoder if a 20 PPR would do.
    I tested the motor and it is very reliable to get it position. With such low resolution it can easily work as MOTOR FOR NEEDLE POSITIONING. I think Only TWO slot encoder ( 8 PPR) can also work for the Needle positioning. However the minimum 4-slots ( 16PPR) encoder is a right candidate for position control. It will give you high speed with less overhead on the controller. Furthermore the good thing is that , this controller works with STEP and DIRECTION signal from Mach3. Soon i will further test post the results.
    http://free3dscans.blogspot.com/ http://my-woodcarving.blogspot.com/
    http://my-diysolarwind.blogspot.com/

  6. #826
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    533

    Re: DIY- CNC Embroidery Machine

    Thanks, and as always... looking forward to your many good ideas and contributions.

  7. #827
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    3498

    Re: DIY- CNC Embroidery Machine

    Wow... amazingly found the servomotors with Quadrature incremental encoder at a very bargain price of around Rs 340 /Ea( ~$3.2US).. couldn't resist to get the three from the local shop in Sadiqabad... The shopkeeper was selling these to locals who make small fans out of them.... what a waste of the motors especially the encoder electronics....
    The first thing i did to identify the wiring... Posting for record...
    PS: Unfortunately Three FANS will not be converted by using these motors now...
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 1.jpg  
    http://free3dscans.blogspot.com/ http://my-woodcarving.blogspot.com/
    http://my-diysolarwind.blogspot.com/

  8. #828
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Posts
    3

    Re: DIY- CNC Embroidery Machine

    Hi,
    I read many messages on this thread, and I have some questions:

    I would make a cheap CNC embroidery, so I don't want substitute the sewing machine main motor with a big servo o stepper motor.
    I would use optical sensor on the needle path or on the motor wheel to understand if the needle is out of the fabric.
    So if I have the G Code (thanks to Khalid converter software) how Mach3 could manage the sensor and pause the motor if the table is still moved, and pass to the next step?

    There is also many other things like thread cutter operation, color change if you what use more than one sewing machine, ecc.
    Someone wrote: Even though there are similarities, the differences are big enough that CNC and computerized embroidery are definitely in different spectrums.

    I think that the best solution is to write a software for arduino that read directly a DST file and manage the table X Y, the sensor, the needle motor, color change, etc

  9. #829
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    12

    Re: DIY- CNC Embroidery Machine

    Khalid (and friends),

    I had no idea that this thread was back in action or I would have been trying to help! I lost track of it when I moved from NC to MI a few years back.

    I have more than 20 years of embroidery experience so should be able to help with that side of matters. I also have several machines in my warehouse that are mechanically sound but not working due to bad electronics (motherboards and the like) that would be good donor machines to try out any of the new software solutions. I have CNC background as well so hope that I can be useful to this discussion...

    Khalid - Since you cannot receive remuneration via PayPal, I would be glad to email you free embroidery digitizing in dst or any format you want to help defray costs for all the work you have done.

    Let me know what I can do to earn my keep! I want to see this succeed!!!

    Mike

  10. #830
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    533

    Re: DIY- CNC Embroidery Machine

    golinux:
    At what point did you want to pause the needle motor?

    I've watched my wife's commercial embroidery machine and it only pauses when the thread breaks, or when the user needs to change the thread colour, at which time the hoop is not moving. Secondly, the needle motor mechanism has too much mass and inertia to make start-stop movements during embroidery. I haven't used any high speed camera to see if the hoop is "start-stop" during the embroidery stitching process - but I doubt it.
    If you consider that your machine could do 300 stitches per minute then it would take 200 millisec per stitch. This is way too short a time to stop the needle motor and wait for the hoop to move and start the motor again. Stitches are generally less than 9mm so the distance is very small per stitch. The hoop X&Y movement will need to be synchronized to motor RPM in order to create the proper stitch length.

  11. #831
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    533

    Re: DIY- CNC Embroidery Machine

    Mike:
    Welcome to this thread. Good to have experienced people to guide us.
    This thread started with the idea of using a basic general purpose, and readily available sewing machine. This idea has not fully borne fruit in this thread as a number of members ran into difficulties and abandon this project.

    I started with a "$10 yard sale" sewing machine, but have not finished experimenting with a working prototype. Like golinux, I wanted to use the existing sewing machine motor, but didn't have the sensors and parts to build a prototype controller. I did get to build an Arduino triac motor controller that showed promise but other projects got in the way. Perhaps the winter months may see further progress.

  12. #832
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    Apr 2006
    Posts
    3498

    Re: DIY- CNC Embroidery Machine

    KOC62.. This thing is doable and some of us also did this with high speed... I will try to complete this project using standalone Arduino SD card and LCD and will accomplish once i get time...
    http://free3dscans.blogspot.com/ http://my-woodcarving.blogspot.com/
    http://my-diysolarwind.blogspot.com/

  13. #833
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    3498

    Re: DIY- CNC Embroidery Machine

    Mike.. Thanks for the offer... Presently busy in other "Graphical Waterfall Project", but i made the software to a limit that any body can use it with their hardware.. I can add much more in software per the suggestions received from this community. I still believe that we can make a very low cost hardware (electronics) solution to convert any ordinary sewing machine to commercial embroidery machine.
    http://free3dscans.blogspot.com/ http://my-woodcarving.blogspot.com/
    http://my-diysolarwind.blogspot.com/

  14. #834
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    12

    Re: DIY- CNC Embroidery Machine

    Thanks for the welcome KOC62! I was here way back when Khalid first started talking about building a quilting machine for his wife but life got in the way and I lost track of this thread. I will do whatever I can to make this work. I still have an old small Melco EP1 that is essentially a sewing machine with X and Y for small hoops that might make a great test bed for this work. It was the first machine I bought when I started in embroidery and I run it off of a Premier board. Here's what the machine looks like:


    Attached is pic of machine with board which also can run Melco EMC machines (I have an EMC-1 (single needle, single head) that has a bad board but is otherwise mechanically sound). I was going to rebuild it to sew a larger field for doing motorcycle jackets but then it started having issues. It would sew along just fine for a few thousand stitches and then suddenly launch itself to max speed until you had to shut it down. I think it would also be a good candidate for testing software/hardware. I also have a Renaissance machine (15 color) with a bad Y drive, a Brother BAS-416 (9 color) and a SWF/E-T1501C (15 color) that would allow us to test out different programming ideas like trimmers, thread-sensors, etc. All single head machines...

    Mike

  15. #835
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    533

    Re: DIY- CNC Embroidery Machine

    Quote Originally Posted by Khalid View Post
    KOC62.. This thing is doable and some of us also did this with high speed... I will try to complete this project using standalone Arduino SD card and LCD and will accomplish once i get time...
    Yes, I believe you!
    I have the electronics skills, but have not bought the parts to experiment. Many other projects (e.g. fixing audio power amplifiers, refurbish computers for friends...) and daily life bump the priorities.
    I did end up buying some cheap opto-sensors so I could experiment with low-res quadrature encoders and detect the needle position. I currently don't have any steppers, nor hardware, for the X & Y hoop function.
    I have thought of making or buying a 1/2 "H-bridge" driven by an Arduino as an AC motor controller using the existing sewing machine motor.

    I like the Arduino idea for g-code controller instead of a PC and Mach 3.

  16. #836
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Posts
    3

    Re: DIY- CNC Embroidery Machine

    The start-stop should appen only sometimes, like emergency.

    Now I explain my idea:
    The X-Y table movement MUST be faster than an motor (needle) cicle.

    This is the algoritm about hardware:

    1) I will put a sensor that tell me that the needle is just now out of the fabric and have an UP directions.
    2) So now I can move the table of a small offset to posizionate to the next point
    3) Table is in "pause" waiting for the event number 1
    4) The needle go down into the fabric
    5) Go to point 1

    The algoritm need a status check (if) on point 2:
    when the table is moving I control the second sensor that tell me if the needle is near(close) to go into the fabric (Down direction):
    if (down_sensor==TRUE) than STOP (WITH RELE) sewing machine motor
    else DON'T STOP sewing machine motor
    I think that with gcode and Mach3 you can not do this check algoritm.

    you could put 2 sensors very close between themself on the needle support or
    2 sensors on the sewing machine motor wheel in 2 specific point.

  17. #837
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    533
    Quote Originally Posted by golinux View Post
    ...if (down_sensor==TRUE) than STOP (WITH RELE) sewing machine motor
    else DON'T STOP sewing machine motor
    I think that with gcode and Mach3 you can not do this check algoritm....
    Will you have a brake to stop the motor? If not, how will you be assured that the motor inertia won't keep the motor turning for a small moment?
    It is this portion of your algorithm that I'm not clear how it will be implemented in a smooth fashion.

  18. #838
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Posts
    1

    Re: DIY- CNC Embroidery Machine

    Khalid bhai Assalamualakum ,i am making cnc emb machine needs electronic control help will u Gide me iam aleem basha from chennai

  19. #839
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Posts
    3

    Re: DIY- CNC Embroidery Machine

    @KOC62 You are right about inertia.
    The base idea is that the cnc table must be faster than sewing machine, if not you could slow down the sewing machine, I don't know how, or use different sewing machine maybe slower.
    So the point n.2 of the algorithm must be very fast and the table movement must finished before the needle go down again into the fabric, for almost all stitch.
    If this not happens the algorithm should stop the sewing machine, but because of inertia it is not enough to remove electricity to the sewing motor, you must use a brake.
    But this solution, I think is not easy to implement and it is dangerous for the sewing machine.
    So the alternative is in this case to stop the table movements, and wait for the next step.
    In this case we have a shorter stitch, in wrong position and the algorithm have to correct the next step stitch position.

    this STOP event should be expected by algorithm just to prevent catastrophe, i.e the table movement with the needle into the fabric.
    In normal situation for all stitch steps, every single step table movements will finish always before the needle go into the fabric.

  20. #840
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Posts
    5

    Re: DIY- CNC Embroidery Machine

    beautiful

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