[naytep]

I am the owner of a small shop. I have considered contacting IAM so that I can have a better field of employees to look at. It also opens up some new business ventures if I have the union backing. I have some questions if anyone can help. Will the union back the employer when it comes to new business? Why do good machinists join unions? I looked at the wage card and it was below what I am currently paying my machinists. If IAM is for American manufacturing why are they backing the Dem's? Usauly manufacturing is better when the Rep's are in office. Wouldnt it be better for the union if it is better for the employers? I grew up in a business owner family. All of us always worked hard for our money (60, 70, 90 hours a weeks) so my view of a union has always been poor. It seams to me that the union always views the owner as the enemy.
I would like to hear from someone who is in the machinist union or at least has had some direct experience with them. A fellow employer would be even better.

[Geof]

.... It seams to me that the union always views the owner as the enemy.
I would like to hear from someone who is in the machinist union or at least has had some direct experience with them. A fellow employer would be even better.

Enemy may be a bit strong but certainly not friend.

I joined the IAM back in 1966 and have a withdrawal card dated in the early 1970s. Most of the meetings I attended were involved in inter-union arguments about what trades could bolt together what parts in industrial plants. Subsequently they expanded membership to airline baggage handlers..I kid you not! The full name is International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers. Find some guys who work in aircraft maintenance facilities and find out what their union has done for them.

To answer your question about good machinist joining unions; ever heard of closed shops? When it is join or no job offer, you join. And belonging to the IAM is no guarantee of ability; they never checked my papers, I do have them having served a full apprenticeship, they just took my word for it same as for all the others.

[fizzissist]

I've owned a shop, and I'm in a union..not IAM...

Unions have only one goal, that is to procreate and grow, and become more profitable and powerful. I've never seen any evidence of a union, certainly not mine, supporting a new business in any sort of practical manner. They're too busy trying to recruit and build a bigger pyramid.

If you were to offer the same or better pay/benefit package that the union does, you shouldn't have any shortage of good applicants. And like Geof points out, a union card doesn't ensure anything except an employee with a strong legal team to make sure you're being nice.

Part of the union issue also can be where you're located.

When I was in entertainment on the road, I belonged to the IATSE, Local 1. In Chicago, New York and Las Vegas I couldn't work without a card. But in Ohio, one town was impossible to work in without a card, yet down the road they couldn't care less. (I got shut down DURING a show in one hotel in Chicago because I wasn't in their local...yet across the street at the Palmer House I worked 4 weeks a year with no problems!!)

Personally, if you run a good solid business and treat your employees well, you shouldn't need the union. Unions are for employers that need continual guidance. Like mine.

[WA Toolman]

I've been in and out of the union, employer and employee. In some parts of the country(Aerospace industry in Southwest) a good job shop machinist makes more in a non-union shop (in my experience,) whereas in other parts of the country the sharp ones working in non-union shops get about 60% of union scale and very few benfits. It seems as though the union jobs in these areas are all held by relatives, third and fourth generation. The point being, it's hard to make generalizations.

[pvellenga]

I live in Michigan and I also worked in the West Michigan area where the IAM Union pretty much ran them out of jobs by giving the members bad advice. Well, the owner locked them out and brought in new machinists. You will probably lose flexablility in your shop if you have Union machinists since they will only do one task at a time. Heck our Union Patternmakers wouldnt even sweep the floors or clean the machines because it was "beneath them". And as stated above a card carrying IAM member doesnt mean they have great skill. Dont assume they are versatile either. ALot of IAM machinists are very specialized in what they do. Patternmakers have lots of tasks but usually they specialize in a few and never do other tasks. We had some guys that only benched. Some did final fitting, rigging, tool pathing, or drawing and engineering. Dont assume they can do it all. I usually look for machinists that work in small shops. They usually have to wear many different hats and master many different things when working in a smaller job shop. It is only a card with a name on it!

[budP]

let me get this straight, you are willing to take a machinist off the job and pay him 20 to 30 buck an hour to be a janitor? Not smart in my book.

You cannot hire anyone in any trade that knows it all. You can hire the smartest and the most experienced person and he/she may not have had any experience in what you ask them to do.
I also denote a little bitterness in your statements.
If a person cannot do the job he is out the door, and dont give the crap answer that you cannnot fire a union guy because it is not true.

Bud

[pvellenga]

Bud,

Sorry to tell ya but it is extremely difficult to fire a Union employee. And yes I am bitter. So you are telling me that a guy sitting while a machine runs 20 plus hours of tool pathing and reading the morning paper while the machine next to him sits idle is an efficient practice then I guess that is fine. Also, I didnt say Union machinists were not skilled. I said having your card doesnt guarantee it! I have worked at 3 Union shops in my life been a part of all of them and all of those shops are gone now. I have been there and have seen first hand the Union attitude. I dont believe all unions are bad. I also believe they have helped the modern worker greatly but they have outlasted there usefulness. True skill should decide the pay scale not a card. Everyone in our union received the same level of pay irregardless of there skill level or the job they did. Seems ridiculous to me!

[dertsap]

if the employee has nothing to do and you ask him to sweep the floor are you prepared to have someone tell you "thats not my job"

most if not all companies try to keep the unions out ,
last company i was at had the union clawing at the door and the employees were voting . the boss was preparing to lock the place up for good , union never did get in ,they had nothing to offer that most of us didn t already have

and many of us weren t willing to call some of the lazy $@$ equals off the sweat of our brow


unions breed mediocrity

[budP]

pvellenga
Well I have owned several machine shops which are now in the possesion of my children. I always invited the IAMAW to organize my employees. My experience with unions is sure not what you have postulated.
You see there are 2 rights here, management has the right to manage and the worker has the right to organize. I hired machinists not button pushers.
I never had a problem getting rid of a worker that would not work, the Union Contract was that the companys rules always came first, insubordination was not tolerated
We have the largest automated railroad classification yard in the world, Union Pacific here all the employees are union and it is a model of efficiency, The supervisors have a Union of their own, we have 2 large power plants about 20 miles from here and all the employees are Union.

bud