[bowlingmac]

HELLO,

NEED HELP ON A COUPLE WIRING DETAILS. FIRST AN OVERVIEW. I BOUGHT CAMSOFT LITE WITH ICM-2900 IN SEPT. 07. YES,JUST NOW GETTING TO IT. THIS IS A ONE MAN MACHINE SHOP. I GOT BUSY AFTER BUYING CAMSOFT. SECOND;FINALLY FOUND SOMEONE CAPABLE OF WIRING MACHINE ,THAT WOULD COMMIT TO DOING IT. ENOUGH WITH EXCUSES. I'M MAKING TIME NOW!

I HAVE MY SCALE'S WIRED AND FUCTIONING. MY LIMIT'S WIRED AND WORKING IN MY SOFTWARE. SERVOS HOOKED IN AT THE MOCMDX/Y/Z AND GND. MY HANG-UP IS WHEN IT COMES TO AMP ENABLE X/Y/Z. ON MY ANILAM BLUE PRINTS,THERE'S A BOARD WITH 3 RELAYS. COMING INTO OR GOING OUT OF THIS BOARD IS AUTO/MANUAL SPINDLE TOGGLE,POWER OUT TO AMP DRIVES,E-STOP. AND 4 WIRES THAT LOOK TO BE COMING OR GOING TO THE OLD COMPUTER. THERE IDENITY,S ARE, SERVO OFF(OUTPUT),D/A OUTPUT,24 V.COM,+24 V. D/A OEM. I HAVE MORE DETAILS AND COMPLETE PRINTS FOR THE ANILAM RETROFIT IF NEEDED. THIS COULD BE A QUESTION FOR SUPPORT. BUT I KNOW THEY MONITER THIS FORUM. SO WHY NOT KILL TWO BIRDS WITH STONE. JUST A SAYING.

I WOULD APPRECIATE ANY HELP.

THANKS
DEE

P.S. KARL T.,I KNOW YOU WANTED FEED BACK ON VISTA OS. SO FAR,SO GOOD, BUT HAVEN'T REALLY TESTED IT ON CAMSOFT VERY MUCH. NEED TO GET MACHINE GOING FIRST.

[Karl_T]

I'd trash those drives. I'm pretty sure you have brush type DC servos. Double check this. Here's a drive info page:
http://www.a-m-c.com/content/prods/d...log_input.html

They are on ebay all the time. Maybe buy this one:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Advanced-Motion-...QQcmdZViewItem

I've got AMC drives on two machines. They are designed to work well with galil. In fact, the galil drives are just re-labeled AMC drives.

[bowlingmac]

KARL T.,

YES THEY ARE BRUSH TYPE MOTORS (SEM 30M4-59 MFG. IN 1988).
CAN I USE THE SCALES AND MOTORS WITH THESE AMC DRIVES?
WILL IT BE HARD TO TUNE THE DRIVES TO THE MOTORS?
WHY DO YOU SAY TRASH THESE DRIVES I HAVE?

THANKS,
DEE

[Al_The_Man]

The drives you have are most likely obsolete Glentek or Westamp.
Modern drives use Torque or current mode of operation rather than velocity style of your old ones, this means that you can eliminate the use of the Tach feedback on your SEM motors, just take the tach brushes off. and leave un-connected.
Tuning the drives themselves is fairly simple, the gain pot is turned to max, the feedback pot to min.
You will still have to set the PID loop up in the controller though.
Do you have scales for feedback? or Encoders on the motors?
Al.

[Karl_T]

Confirm with the Pro's at Camsoft before doing anything. If I've seen one recurring problem with Camsoft, its folks trying to make a drive work that was meant for something else. You may get it, you may not. IMHO, its not worth the time and trouble, especially for the very few bucks for a drive designed to work with Camsoft and your servos.

I've not done the linear scale. I've read that you set up your servo with a rotary encoder and tune it like any standard servo. Galil WSDK makes this easy. You then put the scales on the auxillary encoder and use them to confirm you're exactly on target. With this route, you get the machine running, then add in this upgrade. Again, check with camsoft about this. And read up on it in both camsoft and galil literature.

Karl

[camsoft]

bowlingmac,

To confirm what has been said so far. We can work with the SEM motors, AMC drives, encoders and digital scales. We also don't require the Tach signals. We can also work with the existing drives. Hopefully someone can identity which of the Anilam wires would be the MOCMD and ground (+/-10v signals) here. If you wanted to go this route it would be best to contact us directly so we may put you in touch with an installer that can come out on site.

Tech Support
CamSoft Corp.
951-674-8100
[email protected]

[Al_The_Man]

What I have used with these motors in the past is a DCBL amplifier, this way, if ever the original brushed motors fail, you can easily upgrade to DCBL without the extra cost of the amp.
They install no different from the Brushed amp. of course you would need to add the commutation wiring with the DCBL motor.
For drives, I have successfully used Aerotec, AMC & Copley, providing they are adequate power.
If using the AMPEN on the Galil, you need to do a bit of external logic as the AMPEN just disables one amp which is usually not desirable to leave the others on, and also create an E-stop.
There are several ways to do it, for e.g. you could OR the amp fault OUT so that any amp shut down would effect an E-stop.
Al.

[bowlingmac]

"I've read that you set up your servo with a rotary encoder and tune it like any standard servo. Galil WSDK makes this easy. You then put the scales on the auxillary encoder and use them to confirm you're exactly on target."


ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT THE ENCODER THAT IS POSSIBLE ON MY SERVO MOTOR, OR A SEPARATE ROTARY ENCODER? WHERE WOULD YOU HOOK AUX. SCALES ON THE ICM 2900? I AM LEANING TOWARDS REPLACING MY DRIVES. THEY ARE WESTAMP DRIVES. THE POWER SUPPLY FOR THESE AMPS IS +/- 15 VOLTS AC. WILL THAT ALSO HAVE TO BE SCRAPED TO, OR WILL IT WORK FOR THE AMC DRIVES. I DO HAVE A POWER SUPPLY THAT I REMOVED FROM OLD COMPUTER AND REMOUNTED IT. IT HAS 5V/12V/24V OUTPUTS.

I DO HAVE GLASS SCALES IN X AND Y AXIS. ROTARY ENCODER FOR Z AXIS. I DON,T KNOW IF THE MOTORS HAVE ENCODERS. HOW DO YOU TELL?
THERE IS 5 WIRES COMING FROM THE MOTOR. ONE OF THOSE IS THE SHEILD.
2 WIRES ARE POWER AND 2 WIRES GOING TO THE DRIVE.

CAMSOFT, I HAVE 2 WIRES COMING FROM DRIVE LABELED "X AXIS SIG" AND "X AXIS COM", WHICH I HAVE CONNECTED SIG TO MOCMDX, AND COM TO GRD. I BELIEVE THIS TO BE RIGHT.

[camsoft]

bowlingmac,

You wrote "CAMSOFT, I HAVE 2 WIRES COMING FROM DRIVE LABELED "X AXIS SIG" AND "X AXIS COM", WHICH I HAVE CONNECTED SIG TO MOCMDX, AND COM TO GRD. I BELIEVE THIS TO BE RIGHT."

Yes, these looks like the right ones. If they are labeled as 10 volts than these are them. Perhaps some one can confirm this.


Tech Support
CamSoft Corp.
[email protected]
PH 951-674-8100
Fax 951-674-3110
www.cnccontrols.com

[Karl_T]

I'd mount new encoders right on your servo motors, probably where the old tach comes out. USdigital.com is a great source. I've just learned the hard way, don't scrimp on single ended encoders,get the differential units.

I just learned something, it looks like the 2900 does not have connections for the aux encoder like the 1900 does. No big deal, the aux encoder connections come off a separate 26 pin header on the galil card. You'll need a terminal strip for this. the pin out is on the galil site. I'd really check out what your scales have before going too far here.

For AMC drives you need a 50-80 volt dc supply a bit bigger than the max draw of the drive. You can build your own, if you're in to that. Or, a DC switching supply is a good choice.

Your 20 year old machine is unlikely to have encoders up to today's standards. More than likely, you've got resolvers. At any rate, install a new encoder on the Z axis also. A differential unit will have eight connections, +5V,0V,A+,A-,B+,B-,Z+,Z-. Double check if the 2900 has all this, its on the 1900 ICM

Karl

[Al_The_Man]

AMC have models that go up to 190-400vdc, so you should be able to use your existing P.S.
If using both encoders and scales, you require a machine with very little backlash to avoid hunting.
The Galil site has a video demonstrating the dual feedback method of tuning the PID loop split between scale and encoder to avoid this.
If you need the pin out of the Westamps, I have the manual.
With only 4 conductors coming from the motors, the two smaller ones will be the Tach, which you do not need if going with new drives.
Al.

**see post #8 here http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showth...hlight=westamp

[Ben Olson]

this is a reply for the folks at camsoft... please stop saying that you can use your old drives and encoders for your controller to work properly you NEED torque mode drivers and Differential encoders.... anything else will result in your machine being unreliable , sketchy and possibly dangerous.... just because it would work does not mean it will work well and be safe

[camsoft]

Ben,

For the record we agree that torque mode is preferable. A straight 10V signal that the motion card can control directly, without a second velocity loop being closed using tachometers that may or may not over compensate. In many cases the tachs can be removed and we do recommend this. Velocity mode does work however in many cases and it is a choice the motion card manufacture offers. Velocity or Torque mode choices are something that the motion card deal with directly rather than a software feature. They give the same advice we do.

As far as differential encoders, this is a must for safely, reliability and position accuracy. We highly recommend this as well, but on the same token most motion card manufactures as provide a choice without using them


Tech Support
CamSoft Corp.
[email protected]
PH 951-674-8100
Fax 951-674-3110
www.cnccontrols.com

[bowlingmac]

I'VE DECIDED TO SCRAP THE DRIVES I HAVE. RELIABILITY IS SOMETHING NOT TO BE COMPREMISED. I THINK THIS OLD RETROFIT IS MORE COMPLICATED THAN IT NEEDS TO BE. TECHNOLOGY HAS IMPROVED ALOT SINCE 1988. SO I NEED TO GET RID OF MOST ALL OF IT THAT I CAN. THE MORE SIMPLE I MAKE THIS RETROFIT, THE MORE SIMPLE IT WILL BE TO TROUBLESHOOT LATER. WOULD IT BE BETTER TO SCRAP THAT BOARD THAT MY SPINDLE RELAY, E-STOP, AC POWER TO MY DRIVES RELAY, AND USE INDIVIDUAL RELAYS POWERED BY 24V FROM OUTPUT ON MY ICM2900.

YES, THE 2900 DOS HAVE +5,GRD,A+,A-,B+,B-,+INZ,-INZ FOR THE DIFFERENTIAL ENCODER.

STILL LOOKING INTO THE 50-80 VOLT POWER SUPPLY.

CAMSOFT, WILL CONFIRM ,IF THE WIRES ARE 10V,WHEN MY ELECTRICTION COMES BACK AGAIN.

KARL, WHAT APROX. COST ARE WE TALKING ,ON THE USDIGITAL ENCODERS.

[Al_The_Man]

STILL LOOKING INTO THE 50-80 VOLT POWER SUPPLY.

CAMSOFT, WILL CONFIRM ,IF THE WIRES ARE 10V,WHEN MY ELECTRICTION COMES BACK AGAIN.

If you have the old PS in place, they were pretty bullet proof, so I would definately look at using that.
The Westamps used +-10v analogue signal, but it will be a moot point if you are upgrading the drives, as Galil is 10v and AMC and most other analogue drives are +-10v also.
BTW that +-15v that you referred to in post #8 is the logic supply to the drives, not the main DC power, The 15v supply would be eliminated with any upgrade.
Al.

[Karl_T]

As far as what to scrap and what to keep for the items you're considerring, that decision will have to be made on site. You'll still need an Estop circuit, you'll still need spindle motor contactors. Your 2900 probably does not have OPTO isolated outputs, so you'll have to two stage it. An SCR to drive relay power for the contactors.

I just bought an encoder and 20 feet of wire for $90.

Karl

[Karl_T]

While you're planning out your project, I'd suggest you make room for phase 2. IMHO, Camsoft with the default keyboard control is not a great package. To really make Camsoft excellent, you need an operator panel, or at least a pendant. To do this you need more I/O; leave room in your layout for this.

Scroll down to post #3 in this thread for a pic of my latest effort;
http://cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=55093


Karl

[Al_The_Man]

This is also a recent westamp conversion,with the original PS used.
Notice the two cooling fans under the drives, and I re-used the motor series chokes, they do not seem to affect performance at all.
Al.

[bowlingmac]

HERE ARE SOME PHOTOS OF THE OLD ANILAM RETROFIT. A NEAT JOB. I HOPE TO MAKE MY RETROFIT AS NEAT. IT MAKES IT EASY TO FOLLOW WIRES.

AL, MY MAIN POWER SUPPLY IS SLIGHTLY DIFFERANT THAN YOURS. YOU HAVE 2 CAPACITORS AND I HAVE ONE. WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY THE MOTOR SERIES CHOKES?

KARL, WHAT'S A SCR? THIS MACHINE HAS A HAND WHEEL, 4 WIRES (FG,+5,2 WIRES TO OLD COMPUTER). CAN THIS BE HOOKED IN TO AUX. ENCODER OR DO I NEED A FORTH AXIS ON MY GALIL BOARD? WAS THAT ENCODER YOU BOUGHT NEW OR USED? CAMSOFT'S PENDANTS ARE RATHER EXPENSIVE,ARE THERE OTHER OPTIONS. I ALSO HAVE A MITSUBISHI(MELSEC F1-40MR) RELAY UNIT IN BACK BOX.APPEARS TO HAVE PLC'S INSIDE UNIT.WILL SEND PICTURE AFTER CAMERA BATT.'S CHARGE.

[Al_The_Man]

[QUOTE=bowlingmac;462455
AL, MY MAIN POWER SUPPLY IS SLIGHTLY DIFFERANT THAN YOURS. YOU HAVE 2 CAPACITORS AND I HAVE ONE. WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY THE MOTOR SERIES CHOKES?
. I ALSO HAVE A MITSUBISHI(MELSEC F1-40MR) RELAY UNIT IN BACK BOX.APPEARS TO HAVE PLC'S INSIDE UNIT.WILL SEND PICTURE AFTER CAMERA BATT.'S CHARGE.[/QUOTE]

The power supply is basically the same thing, the total cap value can be in one or a pair used to equate to the same µf value.
In some Westamp installation a series choke was used in series with the motors to increase the total impedance seen by the amp, they are 3 small transformer-like units in the right hand side of the pic I posted.
If you have them, it is up to you if they are re-used.
The Mitsubishi unit is indeed a 40 I/O PLC with relay outputs.
With Camsoft, you have the option of using a PC I/O card and a Opto SSR unit.
When wiring from PS to Drives, take a separate DC feed from -ve & +ve to each drive, do not daisy-chain the DC.
I can't quite see if that was done on the original or not.
I also didn't see any ground plate, it is a good idea to bond all grounds and shields to the service ground at a common point, especially with a PC based system.
Al.